Popular Post Okrahomer Posted September 15, 2022 Popular Post Posted September 15, 2022 Here: WFP will use the Church’s funds to provide food and other critical assistance to 1.6 million of the most vulnerable people in nine countries: Afghanistan, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Ethiopia, Haiti, Kenya, Nigeria, Somalia, South Sudan and Yemen. It is the largest one-time donation by the Church to a humanitarian organization. 5
Tacenda Posted September 15, 2022 Posted September 15, 2022 3 hours ago, Okrahomer said: Here: WFP will use the Church’s funds to provide food and other critical assistance to 1.6 million of the most vulnerable people in nine countries: Afghanistan, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Ethiopia, Haiti, Kenya, Nigeria, Somalia, South Sudan and Yemen. It is the largest one-time donation by the Church to a humanitarian organization. Well, in relation to what the church has it could be more, don't shoot me. But a great start, I'll say that.
Popular Post ksfisher Posted September 15, 2022 Popular Post Posted September 15, 2022 45 minutes ago, Tacenda said: Well, in relation to what the church has it could be more, don't shoot me. But a great start, I'll say that. The glass is always half empty for some. 5
Calm Posted September 15, 2022 Posted September 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Tacenda said: Well, in relation to what the church has it could be more, don't shoot me. But a great start, I'll say that. That you start out commenting on an act of charity with a complaint….would you like people to treat your good acts that way? 2
Tacenda Posted September 15, 2022 Posted September 15, 2022 2 hours ago, Calm said: That you start out commenting on an act of charity with a complaint….would you like people to treat your good acts that way? I can't help it, I'm not going to hide my personal feelings, sorry or not sorry.
bluebell Posted September 15, 2022 Posted September 15, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Tacenda said: I can't help it, I'm not going to hide my personal feelings, sorry or not sorry. Saying you can't help it, and that you aren't going to hide your personal feelings, are two different things. Either one is true, or the other. They can't both be true. Either you really have no control over what you type on the message board, or you do have control and you choose what you say, without apology. I think that there are legitimate issues with leading with the negative on this topic, but I think you can help it and that it is a choice. (And I'm not saying that as a judgment against you or in a snarky way). Edited September 16, 2022 by bluebell 2
Tacenda Posted September 16, 2022 Posted September 16, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, bluebell said: Saying you can't help it, and that you aren't going to hide your personal feelings, are two different things. Either one is true, or the other. They can't both be true. Either you really have no control over what you type on the message board, or you do have control and you choose what you say, without apology. I think that there are legitimate issues with leading with the negative on this topic, but I think you can help it and that it is a choice. (And I'm not saying that as a judgment against you or in a snarky way). I can't help thinking it. Is that better? My daughter works for the real estate arm of the church and you would not believe all the real estate communities that the church is building. But no one seems to think this is wrong, when countries could use the money now. But I'll hear feed back on this I'm sure. What is a rainy day fund going to do in the second coming? I'm dense I guess, because I just don't understand. https://www.embracerelief.org/how-much-would-it-cost-to-end-world-hunger/#:~:text=A study produced in Germany,between all the world's countries. ETA: Here is the community my daughter is stationed at. https://www.deseret.com/2016/2/7/20581962/riverton-sees-550-acre-lds-church-property-plan-as-a-once-in-a-lifetime-development I guess the church is the 5th largest private land owner in the nation. https://www.hjnews.com/news/local/new-database-gives-widest-look-ever-at-lds-church-landholdings/article_69776a15-214e-5692-91c5-455458bb1e10.html Edited September 16, 2022 by Tacenda
Stargazer Posted September 16, 2022 Posted September 16, 2022 10 hours ago, Tacenda said: I can't help thinking it. Is that better? My daughter works for the real estate arm of the church and you would not believe all the real estate communities that the church is building. But no one seems to think this is wrong, when countries could use the money now. We go through this every time someone brings up the charitable giving of the church. Rehashing it over and over again. Sigh. Many of the countries that need help, need that help largely because of political matters that aid will not solve, and may possibly exacerbate, if it's the wrong kind. Even if it's the right kind. $32 million could help a lot or it might not be much help at all -- because evil people see this aid as a source of personal enrichment. Some aid actually hurts because it disincentivises the affected people from action to solve the problems themselves. And can create dependency. Is it the job of the church to bail everyone out? Let's get down to first principles. If the church should sell its excess property and give it to these countries, shouldn't you set a good example and do the same? Do you have more cars than you need? More books than you need? More land than you need? Sell it all, and give it to the poor! Perhaps your house is really too large for your family now, and you should downsize? Are your retirement funds excessive? Do you really need that much? Surely you could live on your social security alone! Sell those excess assets and give the proceeds to the poor? You could start a charitable movement to urge others to do all of this, too! Don't delay, start today! 10 hours ago, Tacenda said: But I'll hear feed back on this I'm sure. What is a rainy day fund going to do in the second coming? I'm dense I guess, because I just don't understand. https://www.embracerelief.org/how-much-would-it-cost-to-end-world-hunger/#:~:text=A study produced in Germany,between all the world's countries. ETA: Here is the community my daughter is stationed at. https://www.deseret.com/2016/2/7/20581962/riverton-sees-550-acre-lds-church-property-plan-as-a-once-in-a-lifetime-development I guess the church is the 5th largest private land owner in the nation. https://www.hjnews.com/news/local/new-database-gives-widest-look-ever-at-lds-church-landholdings/article_69776a15-214e-5692-91c5-455458bb1e10.html I take it you prefer an impoverished church over one that can survive what is coming. The church won't need a rainy day fund in the Millennium, because in the Millennium Christ will be reigning personally on the earth, and so things will be dry for a thousand years. But in the run up to the Millennium things on earth are going to get pretty bad. During that time, an impoverished church will not be able to help anyone.
JAHS Posted September 16, 2022 Posted September 16, 2022 20 hours ago, Tacenda said: Well, in relation to what the church has it could be more, don't shoot me. But a great start, I'll say that. The church started decades ago. You need to consider the accumulation of donations from the church that has been going on for many years, not just his one event.
Popular Post Okrahomer Posted September 16, 2022 Author Popular Post Posted September 16, 2022 22 hours ago, Tacenda said: Well, in relation to what the church has it could be more, don't shoot me. But a great start, I'll say that. You needn't duck for cover because of me. I'm not shooting. But I will note that there are those who might react as you, but their motivation is highly critical -- i.e., the Church shall be given no credit...ever. There are others who might have a similar reaction, but their motivation comes from a highly charitable place -- i.e., the Church did a wonderful thing...can she do more? Based on the little I know about you from your posts, I'm fairly confident your motivation is more in line with the latter. But even as the pure love of Christ motivates you to hope the Church will do more, please consider a micro-example of what Sharon Eubank and the Presiding Bishopric have to do on a much larger-scale: My brother and sister-in-law served a Humanitarian mission in an underdeveloped country. For all the pure love of Christ that motivated them to serve, there was no overcoming the reality of crime and corruption that factored into everything (EVERYTHING) they did. Even when they could clearly see the potential blessing their efforts would have on a local population, there were always (ALWAYS) local "warlords" who could siphon resources away; so that in the end nothing (or very little) would be left for those who actually needed it. Even when the people or agencies they were dealing with seemed above such behavior, it was a disappointing reality that in the face of such crushing poverty some of the best ones could also succumb. Echoing Economic theory: it seems the demand for worthy Humanitarian Aide projects far exceeds the supply. I'm with you; however, I'm also with the Church that I believe has an obligation to ensure these resources go to those who actually need them. From my limited understanding, it is an arduous (and sacred) obligation. 5
Tacenda Posted September 16, 2022 Posted September 16, 2022 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Okrahomer said: You needn't duck for cover because of me. I'm not shooting. But I will note that there are those who might react as you, but their motivation is highly critical -- i.e., the Church shall be given no credit...ever. There are others who might have a similar reaction, but their motivation comes from a highly charitable place -- i.e., the Church did a wonderful thing...can she do more? Based on the little I know about you from your posts, I'm fairly confident your motivation is more in line with the latter. But even as the pure love of Christ motivates you to hope the Church will do more, please consider a micro-example of what Sharon Eubank and the Presiding Bishopric have to do on a much larger-scale: My brother and sister-in-law served a Humanitarian mission in an underdeveloped country. For all the pure love of Christ that motivated them to serve, there was no overcoming the reality of crime and corruption that factored into everything (EVERYTHING) they did. Even when they could clearly see the potential blessing their efforts would have on a local population, there were always (ALWAYS) local "warlords" who could siphon resources away; so that in the end nothing (or very little) would be left for those who actually needed it. Even when the people or agencies they were dealing with seemed above such behavior, it was a disappointing reality that in the face of such crushing poverty some of the best ones could also succumb. Echoing Economic theory: it seems the demand for worthy Humanitarian Aide projects far exceeds the supply. I'm with you; however, I'm also with the Church that I believe has an obligation to ensure these resources go to those who actually need them. From my limited understanding, it is an arduous (and sacred) obligation. Okrahomer, I've always liked you and you've been very patient, along with others here. I'd just like the church to be able to stand by it's 4th mission statement of taking care of the poor and needy. I understand they do through fast offerings etc. And I've been a broken record on wanting their business arm to pay out 10% of their earnings as well, like the church asks of the members. So if they have 100 billion in their Ensign Peak account that would be 100 million. But for over 30 years until 2020, it had only paid out 2.5 billion. https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/latter-day-saint-charities-boosts-global-efforts-2020#:~:text=Since 1985%2C Latter-day Saint,in 199 countries and territories. But that's coming from the members as well maybe? Do we need these real estate developments as much as we need to save lives? And yes, I donated to a charity recently for these countries and will continue. Walmart donated almost half of what the church did in one year than the church from '85 to 2020 and they aren't even tax exempt are they? "Overall, Walmart and the Walmart Foundation's total global contributions of $1.08 billion in the last fiscal year include: U.S. giving of $1 billion in cash and in-kind gifts, up from $872.7 million last year." I know I've heard that the church could be close to trillion in money and assets from sources, don't quote me though. So I guess that's why I get my panties in a wad like I'm sure people are laughing at me now for. But you have a point that it has to do it carefully, and it's sacred money I guess. And I concede to you and others, and am sorry for adding negativity to a positive post. Edited September 16, 2022 by Tacenda
Calm Posted September 16, 2022 Posted September 16, 2022 40 minutes ago, Tacenda said: Overall, Walmart and the Walmart Foundation's total global contributions of $1.08 billion in the last fiscal year include: U.S. giving of $1 billion in cash and in-kind gifts, up from $872.7 million last year." And Walmart takes in almost 150 billion dollars a year in profit.
Stargazer Posted September 16, 2022 Posted September 16, 2022 2 hours ago, Tacenda said: Walmart donated almost half of what the church did in one year than the church from '85 to 2020 and they aren't even tax exempt are they? No, they're not. But one could just as easily go negative with them by saying that of course they got a great tax deduction for their charity. It's possible for a business to donate enough to completely wipe out their tax bill, if they manage it right. 1
Stargazer Posted September 16, 2022 Posted September 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Calm said: And Walmart takes in almost 150 billion dollars a year in profit. Not to argue with the general idea you're presenting, but the charts I've seen gives a net income of only $13.7B for 2021, out of $572B gross revenue.
JAHS Posted September 16, 2022 Posted September 16, 2022 2 hours ago, Tacenda said: Okrahomer, I've always liked you and you've been very patient, along with others here. I'd just like the church to be able to stand by it's 4th mission statement of taking care of the poor and needy. I understand they do through fast offerings etc. And I've been a broken record on wanting their business arm to pay out 10% of their earnings as well, like the church asks of the members. So if they have 100 billion in their Ensign Peak account that would be 100 million. But for over 30 years until 2020, it had only paid out 2.5 billion. https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/latter-day-saint-charities-boosts-global-efforts-2020#:~:text=Since 1985%2C Latter-day Saint,in 199 countries and territories. But that's coming from the members as well maybe? Do we need these real estate developments as much as we need to save lives? And yes, I donated to a charity recently for these countries and will continue. Walmart donated almost half of what the church did in one year than the church from '85 to 2020 and they aren't even tax exempt are they? "Overall, Walmart and the Walmart Foundation's total global contributions of $1.08 billion in the last fiscal year include: U.S. giving of $1 billion in cash and in-kind gifts, up from $872.7 million last year." I know I've heard that the church could be close to trillion in money and assets from sources, don't quote me though. So I guess that's why I get my panties in a wad like I'm sure people are laughing at me now for. But you have a point that it has to do it carefully, and it's sacred money I guess. And I concede to you and others, and am sorry for adding negativity to a positive post. Not exactly fair to compare a non-profit organization to a non-Prophet one. 2
Calm Posted September 17, 2022 Posted September 17, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Stargazer said: Not to argue with the general idea you're presenting, but the charts I've seen gives a net income of only $13.7B for 2021, out of $572B gross revenue. I was using gross profit I found with Google. I have no clue how accurate it was. I figured it was likely in the ballpark. Edited September 17, 2022 by Calm
JustAnAustralian Posted September 17, 2022 Posted September 17, 2022 11 hours ago, Tacenda said: So if they have 100 billion in their Ensign Peak account that would be 100 million. Their share investments were sitting at $42B in the august reporting https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2022/08/29/lds-church-loses-billions-more/ 1
Nofear Posted September 17, 2022 Posted September 17, 2022 The Red Cross Annual Disaster Giving Program (ADGP) largest donors (at least in relation to the Kentucky flooding). Only church at the top tier (or the $500,000 tier either, unless I missed). https://www.redcross.org/about-us/news-and-events/news/2022/red-cross-responds-to-devastating-flooding.html Quote ADGP $1 Million members are: Amazon; American Airlines; Anheuser-Busch Foundation; Bank of America; Best Buy; Caterpillar Foundation; The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; Costco Wholesale; Delta Air Lines; Elevance Health Foundation; Enterprise Rent-A-Car Foundation; FedEx; Lilly Endowment Inc.; Lowe's Companies, Inc.; McDonald’s Corporation; Microsoft Corp.; Nationwide Foundation; PayPal; PetSmart Charities; The Starbucks Foundation; State Farm; Takeda Pharmaceutical Company Limited; Truist Foundation; VSP Vision; Walmart and the Walmart Foundation; and Wells Fargo.
Tacenda Posted September 17, 2022 Posted September 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Nofear said: The Red Cross Annual Disaster Giving Program (ADGP) largest donors (at least in relation to the Kentucky flooding). Only church at the top tier (or the $500,000 tier either, unless I missed). https://www.redcross.org/about-us/news-and-events/news/2022/red-cross-responds-to-devastating-flooding.html ☺️
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