Why does the church only talk about Depression? What about other mental problems?

[Stargazer]

30 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Being Russian has almost always been depressing. One of the saddest moments of my life was realizing that life under Stalin was actually a general improvement over life under the Czar.

Except for the 18,000,000 wretches who spent varying amounts of time in the Soviet Union's forced labor camps (the Gulag) from 1923 to 1961, of whom around 1,600,000 died due to detention in the camps. This system was actually founded by Lenin, not Stalin, by the way, though Stalin expanded it greatly.

Incidentally, my family had a bit of brush with these camps. My mother-in-law was a German civilian who at the end of the war spent 3 1/2 years in Soviet forced labor camps. Her story is mind-boggling. German forced labor workers were not kept in the same camps as the Soviet political prisoners, and they were in some ways marginally freer, but "enjoyed" similar conditions. Of the over 100 persons crammed into my MIL's cattle car for her trip into Russia, only 6 made it to the destination alive. The rest died of disease, starvation, cold, or simply despair, and their bodies were piled up next to the track whenever they happened to stop, which was frequently.

I find it hard to believe that one would think that life was harder under the Czars than under Stalin. Perhaps it was; I've read some accounts of what life was like under the Czar, and it wasn't pretty. But Stalin was a rapacious wolf. The Czars didn't murder their own people by the millions, I don't think; not once did any Czar order the systematic starvation of an entire region. You've perhaps heard of the Holodomor (1932–1933)? In Ukraine, interestingly. Total deaths: Around 3.5 to 5 million. Stalin's work, of course.

There is actually an old Soviet joke about this:

When Brezhnev finally died, he came to the afterlife and met the last Tsar, Nicholas II. Nicholas was of course curious about developments in Mother Russia, and asked Leonid about it:

“Tell me, comrade, is the Russian fleet still the scourge of the seas?”

“It is more powerful than you could even have imagined, comrade Nicholas, battleships and aircraft carriers and rockets and all.”

“Good, good—and the secret police, do they still have the people under control?”

“We have turned into an efficient machine, and we have control measures such as you might have dreamt of! There is no escaping them now!”

“Very well, all very well—and tell me—the vodka, is that still as strong, is it still 38%?”

“No, comrade Nikolay, it is now at 40%!”

<silence>

“Tell me, comrade Leonid, was it really necessary to implement Communism in our beloved Mother Russia for only 2%?”

 

 

30 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

America can’t knock the Russians too hard for drinking. Pre-prohibition Americans were drinking a LOT of alcohol. Like buzzed all day every day amounts.

Or the founding fathers. Everyone in the colonies drank like fish. 

Yes, yes, I know: fish don't drink.

[Rain]

I wonder if we hear more about depression in church in part because of the sin stigma. For such a long time I remember hearing about praying away your depression.   "Go to the bishop.   Read scriptures more. Stop doing _________. " But I didn't get that sin connection with other disorders while growing up.  Maybe there was before my time?  

 

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by Rain

[LoudmouthMormon]

19 hours ago, Gomezaddams 51 said:

one of the shrinks I have gone to diagnosed me as a Schizoid. I have also been diagnosed with Reactive Attachment Disorder, Dysthymia Major depression, Anti-Social Personality Disorder, Alexithymia, and some other things I forget. I have a grandson that has Asperger and have been told it is hereditary so I may have that also. I have tried to fit in and   through watching TV, Movies, reading books, and watching people how to act in public, I can pass for normal or introverted normal. I am now 71 and have improved some. But I have a long way to go. Unfortunately, I am going to die before I ever get even remotely close to normal.

I doubt anything we have to say on this board will be of much help to you.  But I just wanted to say that I admire anyone who can have such burdens in life, and make it to 71 and have grandkids.  

[Gomezaddams 51]

Thanks for the replies.  Much of my problem stems from not being able to feel empathy or feel love or other emotions.  Well, there is one emotion I can feel, anger.    I have four children that I rarely talk to and most of the time I forget I have them.  I don't love them and feel nothing for them.  I had an ex-girlfriend tell me that she had thought that her ex-husband was the most non-feeling, coldest SOB in the world until she met me and got to know me.  She said I make him look like a warm caring person.  That was when she was breaking up with me.  My adopted parents died, and I felt nothing.  I rarely think of them.   Having Alexithymia (deficiency in understanding, processing, or describing emotions) I do not do well dealing with people.  I never loved my first wife, but I married her because that was what was expected of me by my mother and my first wife said that she loved me.  I figured since she loved me, why not marry her.   I got married again and while it is occasionally nice to have my wife around, I don't love her either.  

I am told that if you pray the HG will give you a warm feeling in your heart.  Well, I don't feel so I cannot get that warm feeling.  I read the BoM and Bible and they both are just books to me and not even that entertaining.  I get more out of reading Lord of the Rings than I do the BoM.  At least it is more interesting.  That is why I am trying to figure out what is going to happen to me.  Someone once told me I would make the perfect Vulcan (Star Trek) because I only can handle logic not emotion.   

I have tried to do what logically seems like the best course of action and it seems like it always goes wrong.  Years ago, I had a motorcycle and there was a mechanical problem.  I asked a bunch of people who rode, who was the best shop to take it to.  They all told me to go to a certain shop.  I knew the guy who owned it.  He had done work on the bikes of several of the people I knew.  So, I took it to him and a week later the shop closed, and he ended up in jail.  I got most of my bike back in boxes after a big fight to get it.  Things like that have been happening to me all my life.  I think I am making the right decision and it all goes to crap.  I think God has it in for me since it seems like everything I think is right goes wrong.  

Now in my 70's I have health problems and ED and can no longer have sex and my present wife doesn't want to hear about it.  She told me since I cannot "perform" she doesn't want to hear about sex or do anything sexual.  The only time I see her naked is when she runs from the shower to the bedroom to put clothes ons, and she dresses like a Nun..   I still want it but am stuck in another sexless marriage.  I could go on describing the things that have gone wrong in my life but don't want to write a book.

[Calm]

Just an FYI, might be better not to get too personal or graphic or your post could disappear.  Plus your wife likely wouldn’t appreciate it if she knew.

My question to you is what do you want to happen to you when you get in front of God?  What do you want to be?

Edited August 26, 2022 by Calm

[Chum]

31 minutes ago, Gomezaddams 51 said:

Thanks for the replies.  Much of my problem stems from not being able to feel empathy or feel love or other emotions.  Well, there is one emotion I can feel, anger.    I have four children that I rarely talk to and most of the time I forget I have them.  I don't love them and feel nothing for them.

I think our stories have enough overlap that you might find something useful in my retelling. Or not but reading is cheap.

I've shared here before that I was an abusive father, primarily from lashing out as part of doing the passive-aggressive thing. So there's the anger part.

I get nothing out of sacrament. Never have. Same thing for the temple. Went a number of times, sealed to two kids there. It was interesting but I never felt anything. The celestial room was always boring to me.  If I saw my ancestors thru the veil I'd think oh neat and just accept it. So maybe that's familiar.

The first example, abusing my kids, was untenable. This won't help you directly but what I did was to sicken myself with opioids (super low tolerance) until I became very suggestible. I imagined what it was like being my young son on the other end of my abuse. That I felt. I ran the tub so no one would hear sobbing. I did this most nights for maybe a year, maybe more, not sure. Over time, it budged the needle - in a lasting way.

I'm not saying my hillbilly therapy method could work for you. But working with what I had on hand, I was able to put together an novel method that bizarrely worked. It really did change me. I have a very good relationship with my sons now. They can hurt me and that's something I value greatly. Having power over me created a space for trust to grow. Only one really needs that specifically but it's there and it's healthy.

I don't know how to rephrase all that into actual advice. Hopefully you can mine some useful nugget from it.

[Calm]

27 minutes ago, Chum said:

imagined what it was like being my young son on the other end of my abuse. That I felt

Deleted as I just didn’t feel comfortable saying anything that approaches medical advice on this.

Edited August 26, 2022 by Calm

[Chum]

[deletion is spreading]

Edited August 26, 2022 by Chum

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

I doubt anything we have to say on this board will be of much help to you.  But I just wanted to say that I admire anyone who can have such burdens in life, and make it to 71 and have grandkids.  

Ditto!

[Calm]

@Chum… could you delete that quote please?  That gets me too close to playing doctor. And I am too old for that game.

Edited August 26, 2022 by Calm

[The Nehor]

7 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Except for the 18,000,000 wretches who spent varying amounts of time in the Soviet Union's forced labor camps (the Gulag) from 1923 to 1961, of whom around 1,600,000 died due to detention in the camps. This system was actually founded by Lenin, not Stalin, by the way, though Stalin expanded it greatly.

Incidentally, my family had a bit of brush with these camps. My mother-in-law was a German civilian who at the end of the war spent 3 1/2 years in Soviet forced labor camps. Her story is mind-boggling. German forced labor workers were not kept in the same camps as the Soviet political prisoners, and they were in some ways marginally freer, but "enjoyed" similar conditions. Of the over 100 persons crammed into my MIL's cattle car for her trip into Russia, only 6 made it to the destination alive. The rest died of disease, starvation, cold, or simply despair, and their bodies were piled up next to the track whenever they happened to stop, which was frequently.

I find it hard to believe that one would think that life was harder under the Czars than under Stalin. Perhaps it was; I've read some accounts of what life was like under the Czar, and it wasn't pretty. But Stalin was a rapacious wolf. The Czars didn't murder their own people by the millions, I don't think; not once did any Czar order the systematic starvation of an entire region. You've perhaps heard of the Holodomor (1932–1933)? In Ukraine, interestingly. Total deaths: Around 3.5 to 5 million. Stalin's work, of course.

There is actually an old Soviet joke about this:

When Brezhnev finally died, he came to the afterlife and met the last Tsar, Nicholas II. Nicholas was of course curious about developments in Mother Russia, and asked Leonid about it:

“Tell me, comrade, is the Russian fleet still the scourge of the seas?”

“It is more powerful than you could even have imagined, comrade Nicholas, battleships and aircraft carriers and rockets and all.”

“Good, good—and the secret police, do they still have the people under control?”

“We have turned into an efficient machine, and we have control measures such as you might have dreamt of! There is no escaping them now!”

“Very well, all very well—and tell me—the vodka, is that still as strong, is it still 38%?”

“No, comrade Nikolay, it is now at 40%!”

<silence>

“Tell me, comrade Leonid, was it really necessary to implement Communism in our beloved Mother Russia for only 2%?”

The pogroms under the Czar just took a little longer. It also had its secret police. The mass deaths were happening under the Czar as well. They were also due to food shortages. The Czar sucked at it too. When Stalin starved people he put secret police in place to make sure word did not get out. Under Lenin and Stalin the standard of living went up for most Russians. Lenin actually had plans to try to make things better but he was also a conniving ******* who put his idealism aside on any flimsy pretext. Stalin just ran things and his propaganda was good. Scary good. The standard of living improved for most. The minorities out in the boonies had nothing really change and when they heard the Czar was gone might have asked: "Who?"

Note that when I say it improved that is very much damning with faint praise. Serfdom only ended in Russia in 1861. Roughly a third of the population were still almost slaves until that point and life in the industrializing cities under the last czars were hell on earth even compared to other industrializing nations who were not exactly models of safety and worker rights. So it got a little better but life in Russia has really never been happy. Hence lots and lots of vodka.

[Stargazer]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Hence lots and lots of vodka.

Everything improves with vodka!

[The Nehor]

As to why the Church doesn’t talk about every mental and emotional disorder they don’t know enough to speak confidently about them. The danger is that individual cases are so varied that generalized advice is of questionable value. Put it in the mouth of an apostle and giving it the air of divine prescriptions for how to deal with it would be insanity.

[InCognitus]

I've been reluctant to post in this thread because this topic is far beyond any of my experience.  But I think the reason the Church doesn't talk about every mental and emotional disorder is because they realize that some of those situations need to be handled by professionals. 

One of the most resent additions to the Church's Self-Reliance courses is Finding Strength In the Lord - Emotional Resilience.   

Some of the chapters in that manual include:

• Healthy Thinking Patters
• Our Bodies and Emotions
• Managing Stress and Anxiety
• Understanding Sadness and Depression
• Overcoming Anger
• Managing Addictive Behaviors
• Building Healthy Relationships
• Providing Strength to Others

Depression is one of the topics covered in the course (as shown above).  And the manual is filled with statements such as the following:

"This group is for educational purposes only. It is not group therapy or professional treatment for mental health issues. If you believe you are experiencing chronic issues with depression, stress and anxiety, anger, addiction, or other mental health issues, you should seek professional help."

I participated in two of the Self-Reliance courses as a group facilitator (two topics different than the one I listed above), and I thought those courses were excellent.  Unfortunately this latest manual came out after I had helped in that program.

The church also has a Mental Health website (also listed in the Self-Reliance course manual, and posted previously in this thread by Kenngo1969) :   https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/get-help/mental-health?lang=eng

That website has topics on all kinds of mental health issues, more than just depression.