Daughter's mission call

[rongo]

3 hours ago, Rain said:

Any chance she is unvaccinated?  I know for awhile missionaries couldn't do in person MTC without a vax.  I haven't been on the board for about a month though.  Normally, since she is going foreign I would assume vaccinated, but going to Switzerland may be different. I would assume you need to be vaccinated in other European countries, especially France given how often we had to show our digital vaccine pass a few weeks ago.

She'll have to get vaccinated in order to go (Church requirement, but certainly foreign country requirement). That may well be why she is 100% home MTC --- I hadn't considered that. 

I didn't know that the monthly mission payments aren't due while in home MTC, but that makes sense. 

[rongo]

2 hours ago, Rain said:

I feel like I am sometimes pulling teeth to find what our balance is.  The last 8 months or so of my son's mission someone started donating to his mission that I didn't know about so I had to ask every once in awhile to see what the balance was.  I've heard that some financial clerks give the parents an update every month or 2, but I only got one when I asked.  

It's awful. And, if others are donating, without knowing the balance, it's hard to know what you need to pay in order not to leave a balance. 

I don't understand why the Church, with all of its IT resources, doesn't create a way for families to know what the current balance is without getting it from the clerks. 

[Scott Lloyd]

54 minutes ago, rongo said:

It's awful. And, if others are donating, without knowing the balance, it's hard to know what you need to pay in order not to leave a balance. 

I don't understand why the Church, with all of its IT resources, doesn't create a way for families to know what the current balance is without getting it from the clerks. 

I wouldn’t be surprised if sometime soon they come up with a way to do it. 
 

Sometimes, the Church can be slow to roll out technology to the local units. I recall the first time I served in an assistant clerk position. I was responsible to type out the ordination and baptismal certificates. The Church was having us use Selectric typewriters for this task, and it was in the late ‘90s! I think it was the last time in my life that I ever used a typewriter. 

I read a while ago that it’s wise not to make your missionary payments in advance, because you never know what will happen. That makes sense to me. 

[mfbukowski]

On 10/28/2021 at 3:20 PM, rongo said:

My daughter was called to the Alpine Mission (southern Germany, Austria, and most of Switzerland). We're all beyond super excited!

Some interesting things that I've learned through the process with this child:

1) The Church now administers a language test with the application if a candidate claims language competency. She tested as a B1 (intermediate), which is pretty accurate. I found it interesting (and useful) that the application doesn't rely on the candidate's or the priesthood leaders' assessment of language ability. There is a score associated with it. I've also heard that some missionaries' MTC time is curtailed if they have language competency, which gives them more time in the field.

2) Although several in her mission have spent time in the Provo MTC, she was told outright that she will have 100% home MTC. While I really enjoyed my MTC experience in the mid 90s, it's nothing really like that anymore, and there is a major online component to it even when they are "in person" there, anyway. I wonder if they aren't planning on her doing the whole six week program. 

3) My dad and I both served in northern Germany (late 60s and mid 90s). The only time I have spent in the southern half of Germany is when my wife and I traveled to France for a fireside after the FAIR conference in Frankfurt. After spending the night near the Black Forest, we took the train to East Germany. I've learned a lot about Swiss and Austrian geography and culture teaching German, but I've never been there. The lucky duck will get to see all of it! I've learned that transfers are seamless between the three countries (when my parents were in the Czech/Slovak mission, missionaries were either in the Czech Republic or in Slovakia, but didn't transfer between them. The bureaucratic issues were too much of a hassle. Two quite different missions --- CR relatively wealthy and atheist, Slovakia significantly more poor but more religious. 

Americans can only be in Switzerland for 90 days, so transfers there are relatively short, but the scouting report is that the president tries to get everyone experience in all three areas. 

4) I was surprised to find that Switzerland has more than double the units and members that Austria has (Austria has a slightly larger population). Our good family friend outside of Vienna is excited for her, and says that his mom is excited to cook for her and her companion(s) (depending on her being in the area, of course). They aren't members, but he spent the last 13 summers with us, pre-Covid. He had noted years ago that it's an outrage and a scandal that Switzerland has a temple, but Austria doesn't.  

 

She will have fun with Swiss German as opposed to Austrian German

Think of a Cockney accent in Alabama.

Same language, allegedly

I could get along ok in Austria, but Switzerland? I might as well have been wearing ear plugs!

[rongo]

10 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

She will have fun with Swiss German as opposed to Austrian German

Think of a Cockney accent in Alabama.

Same language, allegedly

I could get along ok in Austria, but Switzerland? I might as well have been wearing ear plugs!

I've met Swiss people, both on my mission and after. One young couple I was explaining how to operate their RV to (Salt Lake) recoiled in shock when I used the word "Schweinerei" in telling them they need to return it clean.  They were insistent that saying things like that is vulgar and profane. The Austrian guy who was working with us (the guy who visits our family a lot) said, "They're Swiss. They're weird."

He works for Siemens, and Austrians don't like it when they get German bosses who move to Austria. There are definitely cultural differences between the three. 

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, rongo said:

I've met Swiss people, both on my mission and after. One young couple I was explaining how to operate their RV to (Salt Lake) recoiled in shock when I used the word "Schweinerei" in telling them they need to return it clean.  They were insistent that saying things like that is vulgar and profane. The Austrian guy who was working with us (the guy who visits our family a lot) said, "They're Swiss. They're weird."

He works for Siemens, and Austrians don't like it when they get German bosses who move to Austria. There are definitely cultural differences between the three. 

Is it kind of like the different ways that Americans view words like "crap"?

For some people crap is just another way to say "stuff" but for others it's not any different than saying the sh word.  Is the bolded word kind of the same idea?

[Rain]

16 hours ago, rongo said:

It's awful. And, if others are donating, without knowing the balance, it's hard to know what you need to pay in order not to leave a balance. 

I don't understand why the Church, with all of its IT resources, doesn't create a way for families to know what the current balance is without getting it from the clerks. 

Yes, the missionary mommas have talked about this.  Several mentioned that it is because you want to keep anonymous donors anonymous, but no one is asking for the donor.  You don't even need to see all the donation amounts.  If they just gave us the balance that would be enough.  You could put it in both the missionary portal (or normal account) and if desired in the space for donations for the parents or any other designated person (in case there is a problem doing it through the parents). 

[Rain]

18 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

There are other options. You can donate the surplus to the ward or general missionary fund or help out a missionary of your choice. You can make a humanitarian services donation. You can even allocate it to tithing or fast offering. If the family or returned missionary were really up against it, perhaps they could put it all into fast offerings and then skip their fast offering payments for the next X number of months. Or do the same with tithing, for that matter. 

 

I know, but for missionaries/families who are really struggling this can still be hard on them.  Like the parents I know who lost their jobs so wouldn't be paying tithing or humanitarian etc. 

I get why it doesn't get returned.  It only bothers me that so many have never been told the price didn't raise and that they can not easily see where the balance is. 

 

18 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

 

 

Speaking from experience, I know there’s kind of a learning curve in pulling a report on a missionary’s fund balance. If you don’t do it very often, it can be difficult to remember from one time to the next how to do it. Maybe that’s why it seems like pulling teeth to get your clerk staff to do it for you. 
 

But you’re entitled to know the balance, and once the clerk has the procedure down, it shouldn’t be that big a deal. If you make a practice of asking for it every month or so, maybe your ward’s financial clerk will get used to it. 

I get that it isn't simple.   Which is one reason I didn't ask every month.   But there were also a lot of times I did ask and didn't get it and had to ask a time or two more.   But like rongo talked about, making this available to the missionary/ parents would cut out so much work involved in this.

[mfbukowski]

3 hours ago, rongo said:

I've met Swiss people, both on my mission and after. One young couple I was explaining how to operate their RV to (Salt Lake) recoiled in shock when I used the word "Schweinerei" in telling them they need to return it clean.  They were insistent that saying things like that is vulgar and profane. The Austrian guy who was working with us (the guy who visits our family a lot) said, "They're Swiss. They're weird."

He works for Siemens, and Austrians don't like it when they get German bosses who move to Austria. There are definitely cultural differences between the three. 

Well on that one the Swiss tend to be even more fastidiously clean than the Germans. There are countries in Europe that can be pretty funky, and entering Switzerland, to me is like coming home.

The trains WILL be on time, the hotels WILL be clean! 

And then the word "Schwein" = "pig" is part of the term, so if you see it more etymologically, it would be closer to "pigsty", and you can see how that would get vulgar real quickly in different cultures

 

[rongo]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

Is it kind of like the different ways that Americans view words like "crap"?

For some people crap is just another way to say "stuff" but for others it's not any different than saying the sh word.  Is the bolded word kind of the same idea?

 

6 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Well on that one the Swiss tend to be even more fastidiously clean than the Germans. There are countries in Europe that can be pretty funky, and entering Switzerland, to me is like coming home.

The trains WILL be on time, the hotels WILL be clean! 

And then the word "Schwein" = "pig" is part of the term, so if you see it more etymologically, it would be closer to "pigsty", and you can see how that would get vulgar real quickly in different cultures

Anything with Schwein is quasi-borderline. There is a German slang expression "Schwein haben" (to have pig) that means "to have really good luck; to be really lucky. A senior couple from Breslau (who survived the firebombing of Dresden) and emigrated to Canada told me a joke, and it was the single funniest jokes to Germans. 

An American soldier, unlike most other soldiers, got out in the community and tried to learn German. He was invited to a ball because of this, and at the ball, the host asked him if he had had the opportunity to dance with his daughter yet. Wanting to show off his German, he said, "Nein. Die Schwein habe ich noch nie gehabt."   (No. I've never had the pig [feminine article] ). Like with Kennedy's "Ich bin ein Berliner," the article makes a difference (doubly so, making it feminine). 

@bluebell It is similar to "crap" and "sh--" Although, there are German words for both of them (Mist and Scheisse). 

 

[mfbukowski]

37 minutes ago, rongo said:

 

Anything with Schwein is quasi-borderline. There is a German slang expression "Schwein haben" (to have pig) that means "to have really good luck; to be really lucky. A senior couple from Breslau (who survived the firebombing of Dresden) and emigrated to Canada told me a joke, and it was the single funniest jokes to Germans. 

An American soldier, unlike most other soldiers, got out in the community and tried to learn German. He was invited to a ball because of this, and at the ball, the host asked him if he had had the opportunity to dance with his daughter yet. Wanting to show off his German, he said, "Nein. Die Schwein habe ich noch nie gehabt."   (No. I've never had the pig [feminine article] ). Like with Kennedy's "Ich bin ein Berliner," the article makes a difference (doubly so, making it feminine). 

@bluebell It is similar to "crap" and "sh--" Although, there are German words for both of them (Mist and Scheisse). 

 

All that gender stuff agreeing etc drives me nuts.

We jest aint got nona dat.

And in Latin there are 5 declensions for nouns, gender number and case all have to agree...

I can't see how anyone actually spoke Latin.  I can still read it fairly well, but say anything? Fergitaboutit!

Check it out

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_declension

Edited October 30, 2021 by mfbukowski

[rongo]

She obviously needs her Covid vaccination(s) in order to go (required both by the Church and the countries she will be in). We'll have to make our own decision, of course, but what thoughts do people have about which one is best? She's just checking a box to go, and doesn't want or see the need of it. J&J seems really hard to find, if it can be found at all. Are boosters now required (it used to be one shot only)? We know the clotting problems reported with it are statistically small, but her mom has a major clotting disorder, and where there were issues, it was in young women. 

I'm hearing anecdotally more in favor of Moderna than Pfizer, but we really haven't looked closely at any of them with a serious thought to taking them. 

Our friend in Vienna says that they are required to have boosters every six months, but I can't see that happening, since it has been so hard to get vaccines there. And, I would imagine that there would be resentment at American missionaries gobbling up rare and precious boosters. Do you think the missionaries, once there, don't have to get boosters? 

While we have a lot of time, "full vaccination" is a visa application requirement, so we're looking at options. Any thoughts, opinions, insights, etc. are appreciated!

[The Nehor]

On 10/30/2021 at 12:42 PM, Rain said:

Yes, the missionary mommas have talked about this.  Several mentioned that it is because you want to keep anonymous donors anonymous, but no one is asking for the donor.  You don't even need to see all the donation amounts.  If they just gave us the balance that would be enough.  You could put it in both the missionary portal (or normal account) and if desired in the space for donations for the parents or any other designated person (in case there is a problem doing it through the parents). 

It has been suggested many times on the forums clerks and leaders use to discuss features on the website. I suspect it may happen at some point. If it does I expect it will require permission from the missionary to say who can see it. I expect it to usually be the parents but probably unwise to make that automatic.

I know that people who work in Salt Lake on the website are aware of the desire to have this feature and have passed it on at least twice. If it does happen it will probably include the balance and that is it without any information on who made donations, what amounts were donated, or how many donations were made.

When an individual’s mission is complete if there are extra funds we usually roll them over into the Ward Missionary Fund.

[Danzo]

On 10/30/2021 at 10:56 AM, Rain said:

I get why it doesn't get returned. 

Its because of tax law.  If the church returned the money, then missionary fund payments couldn't be considered a charitable donation, it would be considered just payments to support a child (non deductable).  

There was a big supreme court case on this in the early 90s, which I believe contributed to the church's decision to use the model they are now using.   Currently, although support by missionary is encouraged, it isn't directly tied to the missionary (the missionary doesn't lose his food money or get kicked out of the appartment if a payment is missed).  

[Rain]

52 minutes ago, Danzo said:

Its because of tax law.  If the church returned the money, then missionary fund payments couldn't be considered a charitable donation, it would be considered just payments to support a child (non deductable).  

There was a big supreme court case on this in the early 90s, which I believe contributed to the church's decision to use the model they are now using.   Currently, although support by missionary is encouraged, it isn't directly tied to the missionary (the missionary doesn't lose his food money or get kicked out of the appartment if a payment is missed).  

Thanks for explaining it when I was to lazy to do it.

[rongo]

On 11/1/2021 at 10:10 PM, The Nehor said:

It has been suggested many times on the forums clerks and leaders use to discuss features on the website. I suspect it may happen at some point. If it does I expect it will require permission from the missionary to say who can see it. I expect it to usually be the parents but probably unwise to make that automatic.

I know that people who work in Salt Lake on the website are aware of the desire to have this feature and have passed it on at least twice. If it does happen it will probably include the balance and that is it without any information on who made donations, what amounts were donated, or how many donations were made.

When an individual’s mission is complete if there are extra funds we usually roll them over into the Ward Missionary Fund.

We sent a missionary whose family was/is extremely poor with a $10,000 balance in the ward mission fund from a missionary who prepaid the whole thing, but came home from the MTC (predated me moving into the ward by a couple of years). He grew a ton on his mission --- it was so good for him (Peru). 

There is no good reason the raw balance and amounts of deposits (amounts only, no names) cannot be provided to the missionary families right now, without special software design. 

[Calm]

On 11/1/2021 at 9:08 PM, rongo said:

J seems really hard to find, if it can be found at all.

Check here:

https://www.vaccines.gov/search/

[The Nehor]

9 hours ago, Danzo said:

Its because of tax law.  If the church returned the money, then missionary fund payments couldn't be considered a charitable donation, it would be considered just payments to support a child (non deductable).  

There was a big supreme court case on this in the early 90s, which I believe contributed to the church's decision to use the model they are now using.   Currently, although support by missionary is encouraged, it isn't directly tied to the missionary (the missionary doesn't lose his food money or get kicked out of the appartment if a payment is missed).  

It is this. You can usually get money back from a Church charitable donation if it was contributed in error and that error is quickly rectified. This usually happens when someone donates online and puts an extra 0 at the end or something.

If a member can dictate what is done with a charitable donation after it is received than it risks tax deductible status which is why the Church generally can’t give the money back. I suppose it could be changed so that missionary funds are funded by the family and controlled by them but then no tax deduction.

3 hours ago, rongo said:

There is no good reason the raw balance and amounts of deposits (amounts only, no names) cannot be provided to the missionary families right now, without special software design. 

Even giving the donation amounts of other donors to a missionary fund would be dangerous because it could be a clue as to who donated it and violate confidentiality.

It would be a little more complicated. The data on missionary funds is in a different “group” on the website and it is generally limited to a few people (Bishopric and Clerks) who have access to all of the data in that section. It would have to be tested. They would also have to build some kind of interface to determine who can see the total. 9 times out of 10 that would be mom and dad but I can see cases where a missionary may not want them to have access or would prefer to give it to someone else so you would probably need an interface to select who can see it. Kind of thing they may want a scanned form for.

It is also possible that giving access might mess with making it tax deductible. It would be a rough case from what I know of the law but I am not a lawyer.