california boy Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 11 hours ago, Amulek said: Is there a good way to talk about LDS beliefs about gay marriages that won't be construed as being at least somewhat demeaning by those in the LGBT community? YES. Quit comparing gay marriages with pedophiles , beastiality, and other criminals sexual activities. I don’t care if members think someone in a gay marriage is committing fornication. But they are not the same as a pedophiles. 3
Meadowchik Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 Pro-tip: if your argument against same-sex relationships relies on inaccurate comparisons and dismissive rules, chances are it's a poor argument. 2
Hamba Tuhan Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 37 minutes ago, california boy said: Quit comparing gay marriages with ... other criminals sexual activities. Some of us live in places where gay 'marriages' are criminal. The Western colonisation of the imagination is relentless, but it is also far from complete. 2
Meadowchik Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said: Some of us live in places where gay 'marriages' are criminal. The Western colonisation of the imagination is relentless, but it is also far from complete. Homosexuality is a global phenomenon. The push of Western nations for gay rights often follows the established colonial patterns, but we can address that without dismissing the reality of homosexuality. ETA: I have looked up some of your other posts on the topic to try to refresh my memory of where you're coming from. I hear you when you say that sexual orientations as articulated in the West are artificial constructs and such "boxes" can be overly simplistic. It's interesting to me that you acknowledge the wide anthropological data of different ways of looking at sexuality, and implore others to care about the historic and scientific data, and yet, like here, you still encourage people to accept the very rigid boxes about sexuality which are espoused by (the VERY Western-rooted dogmas of) the church. Edited June 2, 2021 by Meadowchik
california boy Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 12 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: Some of us live in places where gay 'marriages' are criminal. The Western colonisation of the imagination is relentless, but it is also far from complete. What country do you live in that views gay marriage as CRIMINAL? Gay marriages may not be legally binding, but criminal? 1
Meadowchik Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 9 minutes ago, california boy said: What country do you live in that views gay marriage as CRIMINAL? Gay marriages may not be legally binding, but criminal? If the username is an indication, Malaysia. In any case it is one of 69 or so countries which outlaw homosexuality. Reading Hamba's post again, I'm not sure what he's saying. Perhaps he is acknowledging that many laws criminalising homosexuality are rooted in older Western colonial laws?
rodheadlee Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 22 minutes ago, california boy said: What country do you live in that views gay marriage as CRIMINAL? Gay marriages may not be legally binding, but criminal? Full list of countries where homosexuality is outlawed: Afghanistan Algeria Antigua & Barbuda Bangladesh Barbados Bhutan Brunei Burundi Cameroon Chad Comoros Cook Islands Dominica Egypt Eritrea Eswatini Ethiopia Gambia Ghana Grenada Guinea Guyana Iran Jamaica Kenya Kiribati Kuwait Lebanon Liberia Libya Malawi Malaysia Maldives Mauritania Mauritius Morocco Myanmar Namibia Nigeria Occupied Palestinian Territory (Gaza Strip) Oman Pakistan Papua New Guinea Qatar Saint Kitts and Nevis Saint Lucia Saint Vincent and The Grenadines Samoa Saudi Arabia Senegal Sierra Leone Singapore Solomon Islands Somalia South Sudan Sri Lanka Sudan Syria Tanzania Togo Tonga Tunisia Turkmenistan Tuvalu Uganda Uzbekistan Yemen Zambia Zimbabwe 1
california boy Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 30 minutes ago, rodheadlee said: Full list of countries where homosexuality is outlawed: Afghanistan Algeria Antigua & Barbuda Bangladesh Barbados Bhutan Brunei Burundi Cameroon Chad Comoros Cook Islands Dominica Egypt Eritrea Eswatini Ethiopia Gambia Ghana Grenada Guinea Guyana Iran Jamaica Kenya Kiribati Kuwait Lebanon Liberia Libya Malawi Malaysia Maldives Mauritania Mauritius Morocco Myanmar Namibia Nigeria Occupied Palestinian Territory (Gaza Strip) Oman Pakistan Papua New Guinea Qatar Saint Kitts and Nevis Saint Lucia Saint Vincent and The Grenadines Samoa Saudi Arabia Senegal Sierra Leone Singapore Solomon Islands Somalia South Sudan Sri Lanka Sudan Syria Tanzania Togo Tonga Tunisia Turkmenistan Tuvalu Uganda Uzbekistan Yemen Zambia Zimbabwe Well then Mormons are totally justified in comparing gay marriages to pedophiles. In fact, let’s start spreading the word that the Church not only wants to be known as the church that fought to take away the civil rights of gays but also equates gay marriages to pedophiles. Carry on. Do all you can to demean gay relationships. It appears that is what you all want. 1
secondclasscitizen Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 10 minutes ago, california boy said: Well then Mormons are totally justified in comparing gay marriages to pedophiles. In fact, let’s start spreading the word that the Church not only wants to be known as the church that fought to take away the civil rights of gays but also equates gay marriages to pedophiles. Every Mormon child molester I know is straight, married and has a temple rec.
california boy Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 30 minutes ago, secondclasscitizen said: Every Mormon child molester I know is straight, married and has a temple rec. Evidently being in a gay relationship is just as bad Edited June 2, 2021 by california boy
rodheadlee Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 5 hours ago, california boy said: Well then Mormons are totally justified in comparing gay marriages to pedophiles. In fact, let’s start spreading the word that the Church not only wants to be known as the church that fought to take away the civil rights of gays but also equates gay marriages to pedophiles. Carry on. Do all you can to demean gay relationships. It appears that is what you all want. Actually I was just trying to be helpful. 1
AtlanticMike Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 19 hours ago, OGHoosier said: Surely you aren't serious in asserting that, because our bodies have the capacity to do something, it is part of our God-given nature and therefore justified to do that thing. What I'm asserting is, because of how we view sex inside the church, a large percentage of people/couples won't explore or use their imagination during sex, or even during the course of the day, trying to figure out a way to spice up their sex life. Personally, I see sex as a natural antidepressant, as long as you're willing to open your mind. From listening to my wife talk about the sex lives of some of her friends, it seems like a lot of Mormon women have a hard time using their imagination when it comes to sex because they don't understand what is or isn't acceptable because for the first 18 years of their lives, sex was only taught as a "sacred act" and looking at it any other way is flirting with "sin". I have a friend that went in and confessed to the bishop that he was masturbating, because his wife was so upset she started crying and wanted him to seek advice from the bishop. It was a major turning point in their marriage, she felt like he was cheating on her. Does that seem like a healthy way to view sex? 19 hours ago, OGHoosier said: Furthermore, for what it's worth, the whole "Satan made me do it" is manifestly a caricature, so if that's seriously your understanding of the concept of agency, culpability, and sin, then there is your problem right there. Are you actually serious? I don't know about females, but most young Mormon males feel like the devil is on one shoulder and the holy ghost is on the other, and the holy ghost is trying his hardest to help you from doing the "evil act" of masturbation. So when you succumb to temptation and actually follow through with it, the amount of guilt is sometimes overwhelming. So it's not my problem sir, I'm not the one teaching masturbation is a sin. Last question, my wife and I teach our kids that masturbation is not a sin, it's actually a normal act that many people do. In your opinion, am I teaching my kids how to sin because we take a different view about masturbation compared to most parents in the church? Edited June 2, 2021 by AtlanticMike 1
secondclasscitizen Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, california boy said: Evidently being in a gay relationship is just as bad Ha. Yea people will say that but I’ve run into tons of them and no one sticks out as being gay. At least their wives don’t so. The last ward I was in this guy molested his daughters didn’t even go after the boys. They were like barely older than four five yrs old I think. Edited June 2, 2021 by secondclasscitizen Typo on ages 1
california boy Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 1 hour ago, rodheadlee said: Actually I was just trying to be helpful. You were lending your support to comparing people who rape little children to gay marriages. This whole thread has turned into ways to justify comparing gay marriages to people who rape children. There have been no members who have taken the position that perhaps this comparison may be wrong. It seems to be the consensus that it is a fair comparison I will add this position when people ask me what it was like being gay in the Mormon church. And I will also quit calling posters on using this comparison because evidently it is just what Mormons belief. 1
rodheadlee Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 23 minutes ago, california boy said: You were lending your support to comparing people who rape little children to gay marriages. This whole thread has turned into ways to justify comparing gay marriages to people who rape children. There have been no members who have taken the position that perhaps this comparison may be wrong. It seems to be the consensus that it is a fair comparison I will add this position when people ask me what it was like being gay in the Mormon church. And I will also quit calling posters on using this comparison because evidently it is just what Mormons belief. I'm sorry but you are mistaken. I only cut and pasted the list of countries where gay marriage is criminal. FYI I don't think Hamba can ID the country he lives in without repercussions for being a Mormon. I was shocked at some of the countries on the list. Sometimes we take our freedom in the USA for granted. Edited June 2, 2021 by rodheadlee 2
Scott Lloyd Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 7 hours ago, secondclasscitizen said: Every Mormon child molester I know is straight, married and has a temple rec. Two questions come to mind: How many “Mormon” child molesters do you know? One? Two? 20? and if you know for a fact they are child molesters, have you alerted the authorities? If not, shouldn’t you do that before the sun sets today?
Scott Lloyd Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 1 hour ago, rodheadlee said: Actually I was just trying to be helpful. 34 minutes ago, california boy said: You were lending your support to comparing people who rape little children to gay marriages. Not seeing it. Adding an item of information is not necessarily supporting anything. Is it possible you have a bit of a hair trigger in discussions of this topic? 1
webbles Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 10 hours ago, Meadowchik said: The phrases opposite-sex couples and not-opposite-sex couples are more exact, and together cover all types of couples. That is what I mean by heterosexual and homosexual in this usage of the terms. I thought we were talking about relationships, not couples. Not all relationships are couples. And since there are more than 2 sexes in the world, opposite-sex and not-opposite-sex do not cover all types of couples. And opposite-sex and not-opposite-sex don't cover all of the different types of sexual desires that people have, either. So I still want to know why you think that not-opposite-sex and opposite-sex couples are intrinsically better than all of the other relationships, couples, and sexual desires that exist or can exist in the world.
webbles Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 54 minutes ago, california boy said: You were lending your support to comparing people who rape little children to gay marriages. This whole thread has turned into ways to justify comparing gay marriages to people who rape children. There have been no members who have taken the position that perhaps this comparison may be wrong. It seems to be the consensus that it is a fair comparison I will add this position when people ask me what it was like being gay in the Mormon church. And I will also quit calling posters on using this comparison because evidently it is just what Mormons belief. Is it ok to compare adulterous people to those who rape little children? Or what about heterosexual fornicators? Because that is what I'm also seeing in this thread.
secondclasscitizen Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 33 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Two questions come to mind: How many “Mormon” child molesters do you know? One? Two? 20? and if you know for a fact they are child molesters, have you alerted the authorities? If not, shouldn’t you do that before the sun sets today? Funny you should ask. After my military career I became a cop in a city with a higher than average number of Mormons. That said I have met a few. Don’t even get me started on domestic violence. 1
california boy Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 29 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Not seeing it. Adding an item of information is not necessarily supporting anything. Is it possible you have a bit of a hair trigger in discussions of this topic? I do admit I was a tiny bit surprised that Mormons are so adamant about comparing gay marriages to child rapists. Maybe I shouldn’t have been since this has been a common talking point in most of these LGBT threads. 1
california boy Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 21 minutes ago, webbles said: Is it ok to compare adulterous people to those who rape little children? Or what about heterosexual fornicators? Because that is what I'm also seeing in this thread. I personally don’t. But I am guessing you and a lot of other Mormons are ok with that
secondclasscitizen Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, rodheadlee said: Full list of countries where homosexuality is outlawed: Afghanistan Afghanistan?? Ha no one has heard of man love Thursday lol. Well really it’s more like the men seek out young men who don’t shave yet to have carnal relations with. They totally are into gay sex there but it really is molestation since they like the boys who don’t shave. 10-14 yrs old Edited June 2, 2021 by secondclasscitizen 1
AtlanticMike Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 28 minutes ago, webbles said: Is it ok to compare adulterous people to those who rape little children? Or what about heterosexual fornicators? Because that is what I'm also seeing in this thread. Child molesters come in all shapes, sizes, colors, sexual orientation, gender and religious beliefs. Just because someone's Mormon or Christian doesn't mean he's safer to leave your kid with him/her. And, just because someone's gay, doesn't mean they're more likely to molest your kid. Best thing to do is explain to your kids exactly what molestation is and what to look out for. Don't not tell them because it's an uncomfortable talk to have. Then, when they're old enough, make sure they know how to fight, gouge eyes, rip off ears and pull testicles. Better yet, when they're old enough, make sure they're proficient with a revolver before they go to college. And no, this wasn't me joking, I'm dead serious. 1
california boy Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 30 minutes ago, webbles said: I thought we were talking about relationships, not couples. Not all relationships are couples. And since there are more than 2 sexes in the world, opposite-sex and not-opposite-sex do not cover all types of couples. And opposite-sex and not-opposite-sex don't cover all of the different types of sexual desires that people have, either. So I still want to know why you think that not-opposite-sex and opposite-sex couples are intrinsically better than all of the other relationships, couples, and sexual desires that exist or can exist in the world. Because married gay couples are not raping little children. They are not having sex with animals They are not breaking up marriages. They are not getting single women pregnant
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