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Ammon Bundy Failed to Appear, Warrant Issued, Bond Increased


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3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

So you've never read Orwell?

At least "Animal Farm" and "1984" but sadly you have NOT taken the lessons to heart.1984 George Orwell Tyranny Lockdowns Warning Instruction image 0

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16 minutes ago, longview said:

At least "Animal Farm" and "1984" but sadly you have NOT taken the lessons to heart.1984 George Orwell Tyranny Lockdowns Warning Instruction image 0

You might want to check Orwell’s politics before you try to claim him as some kind of ally. Just a friendly suggestion.

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Just now, The Nehor said:

You might want to check Orwell’s politics before you try to claim him as some kind of ally. Just a friendly suggestion.

Are you referring to George's ambivalence about socialism?

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Just now, longview said:

Are you referring to George's ambivalence about socialism?

What moron told you that? That is a very radical interpretation.

He was staunchly anti-fascist and anti-capitalist. He supported democratic socialism but not the utopian version. He was a firm believer in closing the wealth gap and basically wanted a form of practical democratic socialism stripped of extremist and authoritarian elements. He was mixed on Stalinism until the West found out what was going on in Soviet Russia and then he was against it. He did not think socialism would create utopia but he did think it would improve things. He hated fascism to the point he fought the Spanish Nationalists under Franco though was not impressed with the Republican Spanish he fought with.

Orwell was a fierce thinker and was constantly challenging his own views. He wrote some stuff that sounds scathing against some forms of socialism because he wanted to find the good he could in it. He did not do the same with capitalism or fascism or Stalinism.

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6 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Orwell was a fierce thinker and was constantly challenging his own views. He wrote some stuff that sounds scathing against some forms of socialism because he wanted to find the good he could in it. He did not do the same with capitalism or fascism or Stalinism.

That may be so but the warnings he made in his books are fundamental to which you remain schizophrenic about.  Orwell should have read the works of Milton Friedman.  Care must be taken to separate out the essentials in capitalism, cronyism, and human nature.  There is NO way socialism can reform human nature (not even communism).  The case of Hong Kong proves free enterprise to be the dynamic engine for prosperity.  Sadly you continue to wallow in collectivism.

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2 hours ago, longview said:

That may be so but the warnings he made in his books are fundamental to which you remain schizophrenic about.  Orwell should have read the works of Milton Friedman.  Care must be taken to separate out the essentials in capitalism, cronyism, and human nature.  There is NO way socialism can reform human nature (not even communism).  The case of Hong Kong proves free enterprise to be the dynamic engine for prosperity.  Sadly you continue to wallow in collectivism.

Does capitalism "reform human nature"? I thought only the Gospel changes human behaviour nature

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8 minutes ago, ttribe said:

There's the fringe, and then there's Ammon Bundy.  This guy...

I wonder if he's in good standing with the Church? I ask because on redditt there is this lady asking why her Dad, who smokes, can't participate in a baby blessing. As far as the antics of Ammon Bundy vs. a guy who can't stop smoking and he has his privileges revoked, it seems so totally uneven. Maybe Ammon though was exed?

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22 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I wonder if he's in good standing with the Church? I ask because on redditt there is this lady asking why her Dad, who smokes, can't participate in a baby blessing. As far as the antics of Ammon Bundy vs. a guy who can't stop smoking and he has his privileges revoked, it seems so totally uneven. Maybe Ammon though was exed?

I have no idea where he stands relative to his membership in the Church, but I vaguely recall him referencing the BoM in one of his anti-government screeds a couple of years ago.  If he is active, I feel for his Bishop.

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https://www.idahostatejournal.com/news/local/ammon-bundy-claims-lds-church-infiltrated-by-socialists/article_af3435a3-2893-5dc4-95a5-590aa695652f.html
 

Quote

Ammon Bundy, a constitutional rights defender to his allies and a domestic terrorist to his critics, spoke in Smithfield, Utah, on Wednesday and claimed that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, of which he is a devout member, has been infiltrated by socialists, globalists and environmentalists.

He claimed at Smithfield, which is in northern Utah near the Idaho border, that the federal government’s prosecution of him and his supporters following confrontations in Nevada and Oregon is really a “battle of high priests” of the LDS church. He said his father, himself and his attorney are all high priests in the church. But so are the lead U.S. attorney prosecuting his family, the chief judge in Oregon and former Nevada Sen. Harry Reid...

He said this same group of environmentalists, educated in “government” schools, have infiltrated the lower and middle levels of the LDS Church.

“I know that our church on the lower levels, the mid levels, has been infiltrated by these same people, but not the higher levels,” Bundy said. “I truly believe that those higher levels are honest, good, righteous men who follow the Lord’s guidance and inspiration, and I believe that they will guide us … through these rough times.”

 

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1 hour ago, Duncan said:

Does capitalism "reform human nature"? I thought only the Gospel changes human behaviour nature

Of course not.  But it is a HUGE contributor to enabling free participants practice self reliance and sometimes acquire strength of character.

Specifically it is the Atonement by Christ that exalts human beings.

Unrelated question:  is all of Canada using British spelling?  Behaviour or behavior?

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38 minutes ago, longview said:

Of course not.  But it is a HUGE contributor to enabling free participants practice self reliance and sometimes acquire strength of character.

Specifically it is the Atonement by Christ that exalts human beings.

Unrelated question:  is all of Canada using British spelling?  Behaviour or behavior?

Behaviour is British!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!😉 like Colour or Centre, I don't know if all Canadians use it but my guess is most do

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1 hour ago, Duncan said:

Behaviour is British!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!😉 like Colour or Centre, I don't know if all Canadians use it but my guess is most do

Some Americans do too.  I do the “ou”, but never picked up the re instead of er.  I have to think to use that spelling. A teacher in elementary in Illinois taught me the option iirc, I know I have been using it since then.  Maybe I read a lot of books with it as well.  Got dinged by an 8th grade teacher for misspelling colour and even a dictionary demonstrating it was acceptable didn’t work.

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5 hours ago, longview said:

That may be so but the warnings he made in his books are fundamental to which you remain schizophrenic about.  Orwell should have read the works of Milton Friedman.  Care must be taken to separate out the essentials in capitalism, cronyism, and human nature.  There is NO way socialism can reform human nature (not even communism).  The case of Hong Kong proves free enterprise to be the dynamic engine for prosperity.  Sadly you continue to wallow in collectivism.

The warnings in his books are mostly about totalitarianism. Animal Farm is mostly Stalinism and 1984’s enemy is a mix of capitalist fascism and Stalinism. I am not schizophrenic about authoritarianism and totalitarianism. I give them a hard “no” and label them as “bad”.

Orwell died in 1950. Friedman didn’t become well-known until after that. Saying he should have read his books is silly. My capitalist “side” is more Keynesian. I believe fiscal policy trumps monetary policy in being an effective tool in managing an economy.

Orwell did not suggest socialism could reform human nature. He just thought it was the best system. I don’t turn to economic systems to reform human nature and he would not either. I am frankly surprised that you think economic systems might do that. Hong Kong? Their prosperity came from being a capitalist conduit allowing China to deal with the world. It wasn’t primarily about capitalism succeeding. The reality is that their good times may be coming to an end. A really weird example to pick right now.

I don’t wallow in collectivism. I don’t go nearly as far as Orwell. I think the ideal economic system is one that melds capitalism and socialism using each as a tool and picking the option that yields better results in each circumstance. I like to think of myself as an economic pragmatist.

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2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I am frankly surprised that you think economic systems might do that.

You missed my response to Duncan which refutes your distortion (see above).

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Hong Kong? Their prosperity came from being a capitalist conduit allowing China to deal with the world. It wasn’t primarily about capitalism succeeding. The reality is that their good times may be coming to an end. A really weird example to pick right now.

It is funny how you try to shove aside the miracle of Hong Kong.  It was the British that was administering HK until the conclusion of the treaty.  Here is a very interesting commentary about how Red China achieved its own miracle in rescuing itself from Fourth World depredation:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/193796748065069/permalink/887189278725809/

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I don’t wallow in collectivism. I don’t go nearly as far as Orwell. I think the ideal economic system is one that melds capitalism and socialism using each as a tool and picking the option that yields better results in each circumstance. I like to think of myself as an economic pragmatist.

There is NOTHING pragmatic about socialism.  Every time government tries socialism, there is greater scarcity, more delays in obtaining benefits, less accountability, increasing bureaucratic bloating, more abuses by the elites.  Something we are seeing right off the bat with the Biden administration.  Washington DC is now an armed camp with its autocrats lashing out in paranoia.

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Tyranny and socialism go hand in hand.  Social engineering is dictating more and more subversion on the family.  Consider this strange event in Vancouver Canada:  (what does @Duncan think of this?)

https://thepostmillennial.com/rob-hoogland-canada-prisoner-of-conscience

"There is a man in Canada who can only be alluded to as He Who Shall Not Be Named: Robert Hoogland. For the sake of natural justice, it is important to speak this man's name. He is now the Canadian state's prison of conscience.

The warrant was issued by a judge for the arrest of a father after calling his biological female child his "daughter," and referring to her with the pronouns "she" and "her." Hoogland was found to be in contempt of court.

Hoogland is a father to a gender non-conforming biological female 14-year-old who identifies as transgender and prefers the use of male pronouns. Hoogland has repeatedly called this person his daughter, though the court has forbade it.

On Tuesday at 10 am Vancouver time, Hoogland surrendered himself to the court in response to the Attorney General of British Columbia's warrant his arrest for contempt. He was the arrested and jailed. The warrant was issued by Judge Tammen on March 4, 2021.

Hoogland opposes his child's undergoing "gender affirmative" medical procedures, and has stated this opposition again and again, in the hope of saving his child from irreversible harm. The Canadian medical system, the legal system, and the child's mother press ahead with social and medical transition of the child.

On December 14, 2020, Hoogland was compelled by Justice Mazari's court to collude in the gender "transitioning" of his fourteen year old daughter and told not to call his biological female child his daughter. In response, Hoogland made a Charter challenge engaging his right to freedom of speech."

When he appeared in family court, the judge forced him to sit in the prisoners' dock, said Hoogland's lawyer Carey Lind said, even though he was guilty of no crime. The judge referred to him as "the accused." Lind made an application for the judge to recuse himself on the basis that all of this was prejudicial.

Hoogland told his story. The child had complex problems, but the court blamed them all on gender dysphoria. His marriage to the child's mother had broken up. He said that, in grades 5 and 6, his daughter was "getting into trouble and hanging out with boys," so they arranged for her to see the school counsellor. In grade 7, he noticed she cut off her long hair and started wearing a toupé. He said that she developed intense crushes on two male teachers, and made a suicide attempt.

Hoogland discovered that the school had been showing his daughter SOGI 123, the going sexual and gender identity education materials in British Columbia which amounts to transgender ideology "propaganda videos." In the grade 7 yearbook, the child was referred to by a different name. The school counsellor changed the child's name without telling her parents. The school "socially transitioned" the biologically female child on its own initiative, with the input of a gender ideologue psychologist, Dr. Wallace Wong.

When Hoogland accompanied his child to a consultation with Wong, the psychologist advised the pubescent child to take testosterone. Wong referred the child to the endocrinology unit at the local hospital. Meanwhile, Hoogland was looking for mental health solutions to help the child without drugs.

On the child's first visits to the hospital, a treatment plan was put into action. Both the child, and her mother—Hoogland's ex-wife—signed a consent form which explicitly stated that the "treatment" was experimental, meaning that the endocrinologists recommending the treatment didn't know the long-term health impact.

A gender identity activist lawyer, Barbara Findley, represented the child in court. Justice Boden decided that the child's best interests lay in destroying her long-term health to make her body appear more like that of a male.

Hoogland, in contrast, thinks his daughter's best interests lie in preserving his child's health, in case his child ends up among the estimated 85 percent of children who desist in their belief that they are the opposite sex once puberty ends.

He said, "Here I am, sitting there as a parent, watching a perfectly healthy child be destroyed, and there's nothing I can do but sit on the sideline according to Justice Boden at the time. I can only affirm, or get thrown in jail."

Boden's court held that the father's consent was irrelevant. The judge went a step further, declaring that the girl's parents must affirm their child's "gender identity," and refer to the child as though the fact of her being a gender non-conforming biological female who identifies as transgender means that the child is a boy. If he did not, the parents would be implicated of the criminal offense of family violence."

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31 minutes ago, longview said:

Tyranny and socialism go hand in hand.  Social engineering is dictating more and more subversion on the family.  Consider this strange event in Vancouver Canada:  (what does @Duncan think of this?)

https://thepostmillennial.com/rob-hoogland-canada-prisoner-of-conscience

"There is a man in Canada who can only be alluded to as He Who Shall Not Be Named: Robert Hoogland. For the sake of natural justice, it is important to speak this man's name. He is now the Canadian state's prison of conscience.

The warrant was issued by a judge for the arrest of a father after calling his biological female child his "daughter," and referring to her with the pronouns "she" and "her." Hoogland was found to be in contempt of court.

Hoogland is a father to a gender non-conforming biological female 14-year-old who identifies as transgender and prefers the use of male pronouns. Hoogland has repeatedly called this person his daughter, though the court has forbade it.

On Tuesday at 10 am Vancouver time, Hoogland surrendered himself to the court in response to the Attorney General of British Columbia's warrant his arrest for contempt. He was the arrested and jailed. The warrant was issued by Judge Tammen on March 4, 2021.

Hoogland opposes his child's undergoing "gender affirmative" medical procedures, and has stated this opposition again and again, in the hope of saving his child from irreversible harm. The Canadian medical system, the legal system, and the child's mother press ahead with social and medical transition of the child.

On December 14, 2020, Hoogland was compelled by Justice Mazari's court to collude in the gender "transitioning" of his fourteen year old daughter and told not to call his biological female child his daughter. In response, Hoogland made a Charter challenge engaging his right to freedom of speech."

When he appeared in family court, the judge forced him to sit in the prisoners' dock, said Hoogland's lawyer Carey Lind said, even though he was guilty of no crime. The judge referred to him as "the accused." Lind made an application for the judge to recuse himself on the basis that all of this was prejudicial.

Hoogland told his story. The child had complex problems, but the court blamed them all on gender dysphoria. His marriage to the child's mother had broken up. He said that, in grades 5 and 6, his daughter was "getting into trouble and hanging out with boys," so they arranged for her to see the school counsellor. In grade 7, he noticed she cut off her long hair and started wearing a toupé. He said that she developed intense crushes on two male teachers, and made a suicide attempt.

Hoogland discovered that the school had been showing his daughter SOGI 123, the going sexual and gender identity education materials in British Columbia which amounts to transgender ideology "propaganda videos." In the grade 7 yearbook, the child was referred to by a different name. The school counsellor changed the child's name without telling her parents. The school "socially transitioned" the biologically female child on its own initiative, with the input of a gender ideologue psychologist, Dr. Wallace Wong.

When Hoogland accompanied his child to a consultation with Wong, the psychologist advised the pubescent child to take testosterone. Wong referred the child to the endocrinology unit at the local hospital. Meanwhile, Hoogland was looking for mental health solutions to help the child without drugs.

On the child's first visits to the hospital, a treatment plan was put into action. Both the child, and her mother—Hoogland's ex-wife—signed a consent form which explicitly stated that the "treatment" was experimental, meaning that the endocrinologists recommending the treatment didn't know the long-term health impact.

A gender identity activist lawyer, Barbara Findley, represented the child in court. Justice Boden decided that the child's best interests lay in destroying her long-term health to make her body appear more like that of a male.

Hoogland, in contrast, thinks his daughter's best interests lie in preserving his child's health, in case his child ends up among the estimated 85 percent of children who desist in their belief that they are the opposite sex once puberty ends.

He said, "Here I am, sitting there as a parent, watching a perfectly healthy child be destroyed, and there's nothing I can do but sit on the sideline according to Justice Boden at the time. I can only affirm, or get thrown in jail."

Boden's court held that the father's consent was irrelevant. The judge went a step further, declaring that the girl's parents must affirm their child's "gender identity," and refer to the child as though the fact of her being a gender non-conforming biological female who identifies as transgender means that the child is a boy. If he did not, the parents would be implicated of the criminal offense of family violence."

this is neither tyranny or socialism, it sounds like the wife has custody, so I don't know what legal right the dad has

 

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50 minutes ago, longview said:

Tyranny and socialism go hand in hand.  Social engineering is dictating more and more subversion on the family.  Consider this strange event in Vancouver Canada:  (what does @Duncan think of this?)

https://thepostmillennial.com/rob-hoogland-canada-prisoner-of-conscience

"There is a man in Canada who can only be alluded to as He Who Shall Not Be Named: Robert Hoogland. For the sake of natural justice, it is important to speak this man's name. He is now the Canadian state's prison of conscience.

The warrant was issued by a judge for the arrest of a father after calling his biological female child his "daughter," and referring to her with the pronouns "she" and "her." Hoogland was found to be in contempt of court.

That whole store is pure evil.
I have seen many on this board state that society today is no more evil than it was a century ago.  That is simply wrong.

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11 minutes ago, Duncan said:

this is neither tyranny or socialism, it sounds like the wife has custody, so I don't know what legal right the dad has


"The warrant was issued by a judge for the arrest of a father after calling his biological female child his "daughter," and referring to her with the pronouns "she" and "her." Hoogland was found to be in contempt of court."

When a father is jailed for something he says, it is absolutely tyrannical.  As a Canadian at the very least freedom of speech is guaranteed.
 

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35 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:


"The warrant was issued by a judge for the arrest of a father after calling his biological female child his "daughter," and referring to her with the pronouns "she" and "her." Hoogland was found to be in contempt of court."

When a father is jailed for something he says, it is absolutely tyrannical.  As a Canadian at the very least freedom of speech is guaranteed.
 

does he have a legal right though? sounds like he didn't, he talks about his ex-wife and the court said he had no voice in the matter, something like that, it sounds like the mother had sole custody-you wonder why he didn't appeal it, if he had legal standing

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On 3/17/2021 at 12:25 AM, longview said:

The article actually states that the judge told the officers to back off.  But they were insistent on doing a bum rush on the defense team.  It is frightfully Orwellian when the system refuses to produce the paperwork for federal detention.

Indeed

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On 3/16/2021 at 2:19 PM, longview said:

Tazing the lawyer was beyond the pale.  Thuggery becoming more brazen.  The police have failed the citizens of Portland, Seattle and Berkeley, etc.

True.

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16 hours ago, longview said:

You missed my response to Duncan which refutes your distortion (see above).

It is funny how you try to shove aside the miracle of Hong Kong.  It was the British that was administering HK until the conclusion of the treaty.  Here is a very interesting commentary about how Red China achieved its own miracle in rescuing itself from Fourth World depredation:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/193796748065069/permalink/887189278725809/

There is NOTHING pragmatic about socialism.  Every time government tries socialism, there is greater scarcity, more delays in obtaining benefits, less accountability, increasing bureaucratic bloating, more abuses by the elites.  Something we are seeing right off the bat with the Biden administration.  Washington DC is now an armed camp with its autocrats lashing out in paranoia.

I don’t shove aside the miracle. It was great while it lasted. It is also really not easy to replicate.

Yeah, socialism is pure evil. Got it. Ignore all socialism in the US, Canada, and Europe and focus on the failed ones. 

Washington was an armed camp BEFORE Biden took office. See the new video the FBI released of the insurrectionists punching, beating with batons, and spraying chemicals at officers? Horrifying stuff. The cultists are also still predicting new dates where the election will be overturned and their God-Emperor enthroned. One was yesterday. Last I checked the date is now the 21st based on some stupid numerology but it might change. Until that threat evaporates increased security at the capitol is necessary. I as sure the National Guard would much rather be at home but what can you do when there is a real terrorist threat against the government?

 

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