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Locals in Erda, Ut Complain Re: Temple Development, Church Responds....


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12 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I like your Dennis Miller quote. That pretty much nails it. 
 

We all hope for a certain quality of life, but at the end of the day, our hopes and expectations have to be within the parameters of what the law and local governing entities allow or prohibit. I think it unrealistic to expect an isolated or rural area to retain that character permanently. 
 

I’m reminded of when I bought my home new back in 1993. Behind my house were abandoned former farm fields. Between the fields and my house was a set of railroad tracks. I remember clearly that the written real estate appraisal made note of the tracks and said they did not adversely affect the value of the property because they were rarely used and in fact were rusty. If anything, they were a benefit, because they would preclude encroachment behind the house. 
 

A lot has happened since then. A residential subdivision soon sprang up on the former farm fields as dense as the one my house is in. The state transit authority built a high-speed, light-rail system  for which they bought up the rail right-of-way that runs behind my house. There is now a passenger platform with a park-and-ride lot behind my house, and the trains come through and stop there three or four times an hour going each direction. Parallel to the railroad, a paved and well-used pedestrian and bicycle trail has been constructed. 
 

I haven’t really minded. The occupants of the newer homes have generally been good neighbors, and the light-rail line and trail have been useful amenities. But it goes to show: Don’t expect your isolation to be a permanent thing. 

Yep. When we moved to our current home 35 years ago, we were on the southern edge of fairly sparse development in a very sleepy place In Pierce County. Not much but forest and a few farms between us and Mt Rainier. Dark nights, hardly any noise. Sister Gui said it was like camping out. Excellent schools. There were deer, chickens, and roosters in the neighborhood and a horse riding barn and field across the street.

Today within 4 miles of us are tens of thousands more people, perpetual development of every bare spot, a huge Weyerhaeuser Company developed community, massively overcrowded schools, 2 Targets, 4 Subways, 2 McDonalds, 2 Walmarts, a huge mall, 3 Walgreens/RiteAids, 3 large grocery stores, countless auto parts store and salons, several pot shops, restaurants galore, 100 acres of wrecked cars just a few blocks away where a beautiful forest used to be, no more starry nights, and traffic noise like a freeway from 4am to midnight. Then there are all the folks moving in from King County (Seattle) because they can’t afford to or are sick of living there. Pretty much anything goes here in Pierce County. This has been called improvement. 

I’m not complaining, though. We can get some good pho without having to drive to Tacoma. But I would really like a place to get some decent kimchee.

Edited by Bernard Gui
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11 hours ago, JarMan said:

The Erda residents aren’t opposed to development—just high density development. They are accustomed to 1 to 5 acre lots mainly. The common phrase you hear is that they don’t want to turn into another Daybreak. My guess is the church will still develop the surrounding land with larger lots. 

Are there other areas where the Church is developing land around temples?

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26 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I get the other two, but Spanish Fork?

Were you barn in a born in Spanish Fark?

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1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Were you barn in a born in Spanish Fark?

😂

I thought we were talking about actual town names and not weird local accents. 

Otherwise everyone who didn’t call Layton Lay’un would be saying it’s wrong. 

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22 hours ago, smac97 said:

Yeah.  Property proximate to Salt Lake and its environs (north, west, and south) will have a hard time staying "rural."  And at some point the preferences of the property owners will turn from "I like my cows and a quiet way of life" to "I like the millions of dollars I can make selling my farm to a developer."  And the Powers-that-Be will like the added business and tax revenues that inevitably follow such development.

I have memories growing up in the 80s of Orem having all sorts of orchards.  They are very few and far between now.  North Utah County has exploded over the last 20+ years.  The same will happen in Erda, methinks.

Thanks,

-Smac

As a greedy real estate guy, I know that it always comes down, eventually, to "them greedy grandkids" who also want to retire, and all they have is grandpa's farm.

Sad perhaps, but true.

Edited by mfbukowski
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13 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I thought we were talking about actual town names and not weird local accents. 

Otherwise everyone who didn’t call Layton Lay’un would be saying it’s wrong. 

But aren't local accents and local speech patterns a big part of what gives way to how we understand 'actual' town names?

Here's a fun one: We've got a county here in Texas named Montague - spelled just like you see it in Romeo and Juliet. It seems obvious that this should be pronounced just like Romeo's surname: MAWN-tuh-gyoo

But is that what we call it? No, of course not. Here in Texas that's MAHN-tāyg (yes, with only two syllables). 

Anyone else looking at it on a map is going to say it the other way.

Who's right though: the locals, or everyone else in America?

I guess maybe it's kind of like that one city in Idaho. 

My entire life I grew up in Texas believing - along with millions and millions of other people - that the capitol of Idaho is Boise: pronounced boy-ZEE

It wasn't until I went to BYU and met someone from Idaho that I discovered he - along with Jewel and everybody else in Idaho - actually pronounces it BOY-see

So, even though the number of people who say it with a 'z' are orders of magnitude greater than the entire population of the state of Idaho, the 's' pronunciation is "proper" - even though nobody knows that to be the case.

Weird, right?

No wonder those poor English as a Second Language kids struggle so much. 

 

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1 hour ago, Amulek said:

But aren't local accents and local speech patterns a big part of what gives way to how we understand 'actual' town names?

Here's a fun one: We've got a county here in Texas named Montague - spelled just like you see it in Romeo and Juliet. It seems obvious that this should be pronounced just like Romeo's surname: MAWN-tuh-gyoo

But is that what we call it? No, of course not. Here in Texas that's MAHN-tāyg (yes, with only two syllables). 

Anyone else looking at it on a map is going to say it the other way.

Who's right though: the locals, or everyone else in America?

I guess maybe it's kind of like that one city in Idaho. 

My entire life I grew up in Texas believing - along with millions and millions of other people - that the capitol of Idaho is Boise: pronounced boy-ZEE

It wasn't until I went to BYU and met someone from Idaho that I discovered he - along with Jewel and everybody else in Idaho - actually pronounces it BOY-see

So, even though the number of people who say it with a 'z' are orders of magnitude greater than the entire population of the state of Idaho, the 's' pronunciation is "proper" - even though nobody knows that to be the case.

Weird, right?

No wonder those poor English as a Second Language kids struggle so much. 

 

Fun fact:  When we lived in Montana the local jeweler's last name was Montague (also the name of his business) and they pronounced it exactly like your Texas town--Mon-tayg.  So, it's not just a local texas thing.  :) 

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32 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Fun fact:  When we lived in Montana the local jeweler's last name was Montague (also the name of his business) and they pronounced it exactly like your Texas town--Mon-tayg.  So, it's not just a local texas thing.  :) 

Curious. I wonder if that is just an Americanized alternative pronunciation of what appears (pretty clearly) to be a French name. 

I know a few people who have ancestors who immigrated to the United States - like via Ellis Island - and ended up having their names changed (sometimes intentionally, sometimes innocently) to be either spelled or pronounced differently than what was done in their native tongue. I suspect this may be one such example. 

 

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4 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Were you barn in a born in Spanish Fark?

No, but I live in Pleasant Grove, which is right next to American Fark. :D:rofl::D

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2 hours ago, Amulek said:

... My entire life I grew up in Texas believing - along with millions and millions of other people - that the capitol of Idaho is Boise: pronounced boy-ZEE

It wasn't until I went to BYU and met someone from Idaho that I discovered he - along with Jewel and everybody else in Idaho - actually pronounces it BOY-see. ...

 

 

That's why all the girls go to one of the BYUs, so they can "boy-see." :D:rofl::D

Sometimes, I really crack myself up, y'know? [Cue rimshot!]  Thanks!  I'll be here all week. ;):D

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10 hours ago, Maidservant said:

Mogollon Rim and Canyon de Chelly were what I had to learn in AZ.

muggyon

shay

Try this from my hometown area in New Mexico

Tesuque

Pojoaque

Española

Abiquiú

Jemez

Mosquero

Truth or Consequences

Edited by Bernard Gui
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5 hours ago, bluebell said:

😂

I thought we were talking about actual town names and not weird local accents. 

Otherwise everyone who didn’t call Layton Lay’un would be saying it’s wrong. 

Well, there are the local accents that we have to deal with, too.

Try my town... Puyallup

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3 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Try this from my hometown area:

Tesuque

Pojaque

Española

Abiquiú

Jemez

Mosquero

Truth or Consequences

Ah, New Mexico. I love the Abiquiu area -- there's a monastery there that I like to visit.

I'm in Mesilla. The double Ls throw off the gringos. My favorite mispronunciation from my area was Canutillo. Pronounced: can-you-TEE-yo. Mispronounced: ka-NEW-duh-low, like it's a noodle dish or something.

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42 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Try this from my hometown area in New Mexico

Tesuque

Pojaque

Española

Abiquiú

Jemez

Mosquero

Truth or Consequences

These have probably all been bastardized by the gringos, but I can tell you how I would pronounce them:

teh-SOO-kay

po-HAW-kay

ah-bee-kee-YOU

HEH-mehs

moh-SKEH-roh

trooth or KAHN-seh-qwehn-sez

Now, tell me how they've all been bastardized by the gringos. :D:rofl:

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7 hours ago, Amulek said:

But aren't local accents and local speech patterns a big part of what gives way to how we understand 'actual' town names?

When we lived in Wichita, the river that goes through the town was the Arkansas river, pronounced like the letter R and the state Kansas, not the state Arkansas.  I understand when in Arkansas, it is pronounced Arkansaw like that state.  IOW, the pronunciation follows the pronunciation of name of the state you are currently in which is understandable, but what that means for the river when in Oklahoma and Colorado, I don't know.  Do they get to choose?  Do they even know the alternative pronunciation?

When I see "Arkansas" these days, I have to stop and think "state or river" as I feel obligated to use the Kansan pronunciation even if we were there for only 3 years.  Daughter was born there in our last two weeks, after all.

When we moved back to California as a teen, it used to bug the heck out of me that my schoolmates would say "Illinoise" rather than "Illinoi".

Edited by Calm
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5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Try this from my hometown area in New Mexico

Tesuque

Pojaque

Española

Abiquiú

Jemez

Mosquero

Truth or Consequences

I guess I will have to learn these now that I am in ABQ. lol

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1 hour ago, Maidservant said:

I guess I will have to learn these now that I am in ABQ. lol

Those are the test for a true Nuevo Mejicano. That and being able to eat a bowl of green or red chile.

.

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14 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Are there other areas where the Church is developing land around temples?

Oh, I don't know. This isn't the first high-density development the people in Erda have opposed, though. But because the church is involved in this one, it also brought opposition from those who just like to oppose the church.

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8 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

These have probably all been bastardized by the gringos, but I can tell you how I would pronounce them:

teh-SOO-kay

po-HAW-kay

ah-bee-kee-YOU

HEH-mehs

moh-SKEH-roh

trooth or KAHN-seh-qwehn-sez

Now, tell me how they've all been bastardized by the gringos. :D:rofl:

The local gringos are ok with the names, but the flatlanders not so much.

You pretty much got em all except AB-ih-cue, home of the famous artist Georgia O’Keefe. The Tewa name is Phesu’u.

The locals usually say “kee” instead of “Kay,” Like in Albuquerque.

Pojoaque is a Tewa Pueblo. It’s name is P’osu n ?7 n ge. They have a c-a-s-I-n-o that rivals anything in Las Vegas.

Tesuque was the home Pueblo of my 5th and 6th grade girlfriend, Kanchi Vigil. I visited there a few years ago. It has not changed since the 1950s. The Tewa name is T’athu n r?ge. Their c-a-s-I-n-o is much smaller.

The Jemez Pueblo is Wa n ?7ge. They have an on-line c-a-s-I-n-o.

I’m proud of you for getting that last one! 👏

Now try Ohkay Owingeh! Hint: ʔòhkèː ʔówĩ̂ŋgè

Edited by Bernard Gui
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13 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

The local gringos are ok with the names, but the flatlanders not so much.

You got em all except AB-ih-cue, home of the famous artist Georgia O’Keefe. The Tewa name is Phesu’u.

Pojuaque is a Tewa Pueblo. It’s name is P’osu n ?7 n ge. They have a c-a-s-I-n-o that rivals anything in Las Vegas.

Tesuque was the home Pueblo of my 5th and 6th grade girlfriend, Kanchi Vigil. The Tewa name is T’athu n r?ge. Their c-a-s-I-n-o is much smaller.

The Jemez Pueblo is Wa n ?7ge. They have an on-line c-a-s-I-n-o.

I’m proud of you for getting that last one! 👏

Now try Ohkay Owingeh! Hint: ʔòhkèː ʔówĩ̂ŋgè

These all are sprawling megalopolises, too, I notice, after looking up some of the populations! ;)  If I were going to go to any of the wagering places, I would simply have to make it a day trip, then, or are any hotels attached to the wagering places?  (From the populations I'm seeing, probably not ...)

P.S.: BTW, I notice, after looking it up, that it's Pojoaque.  (But don't worry.  I won't tell anyone about the misspelling. ;):D)

Edited by Kenngo1969
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31 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I notice, after looking it up, that it's Pojoaque

Thanks. I almost got it right the second time I wrote it. I was trying to envision the road sign that I past hundreds of times.

Do they have hotel accommodations? Google photos of their c-a-s-I-n-o. It will astound you...considering the population of the Pueblo is 1,900! I have visited it (medicinal purposes only). It’s spectacular.

Po-WAH-kee

Edited by Bernard Gui
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9 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Thanks. I got it right the second time I wrote it. Google photos of their c-a-s-I-n-o. It will astound you...considering the population. I have visited it (medicinal purposes only). It’s spectacular.

... medicinal purposes only ... :D:rofl::D

Your neck of the woods sounds fascinating.  How hard do you think it would be for me to invent an excuse to visit? ;) (Of course, there are fascinating places in my own neck of the woods that I haven't seen ... I've seen a lot of them, but there are almost 85,000 square miles in the state, many of them quite remote, so ...  I notice that New Mexico is half again as big, at more than 120,000 square miles.)

P.S.: Se me olvido: You're now in that hellhole God's Country, When the Commie Libs Aren't Trying to Burn it Down to the Northwest.

Edited by Kenngo1969
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14 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Try my town... Puyallup

Oh man, Washington has got a ton of weird ones: Puyallup, Tulalip, Camano, Enumclaw, Keechelus, Steilacoom, Sequim, etc. 

My wife grew up near Snoqualimie Falls, and one of the nice things about having served my mission in NW Washington is that she doesn't have to wince every time I say any of those places. ;) 

 

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