poptart Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Valentinus said: No. We embrace St. Nicholas's example and slap these heretics like he did Arius and condemn their falsehoods vehemently. Oh man what google turns up lol. Edited April 21, 2020 by poptart 2
Damien the Leper Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 50 minutes ago, poptart said: Oh man what google turns up lol. Absolutely love these.
poptart Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 47 minutes ago, Valentinus said: Absolutely love these. The artist is Giovanni Gasparro, he makes some interesting stuff. Heads up if you google him, he's also made stuff that's really controversial as of late. Won't derail the thread, just letting you know now.
mfbukowski Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 12 hours ago, Calm said: And some never had patience for being told anything, even relatively mild self directed suggestions from what I have seen. (As in ‘please, no hugs with the residents at our assisted living facilities as you visit’ being ignored completely by a few...leading to no more visits except with a window between for anyone.) Sometimes hugs may be more important than life or death 1
Scott Lloyd Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 14 hours ago, rongo said: Once, when a woman criticized Winston Churchill for ending a sentence with a preposition, he said, "Madam, that is something up with which we should not put." She simply turned and walked away. That was some quick thinking on his feet, right there. It's good not to be too slavish about English grammar, because it's a two-edged sword that will snare even the most fanatical of grammarians. I’ve heard this story before and have even used it myself on a number of occasions. However, I’ve not heard this rendering involving a woman approaching Churchill and having him rebuff her in person. Rather, in the version I heard, the exchange was by way of correspondence between Churchill and a letter writer. So I Googled it in an effort to nail it down. Turns out the story has a rather complicated provenance and might not even have involved Churchill at all. See this link: https://www.google.com/amp/s/quoteinvestigator.com/2012/07/04/churchill-preposition/amp/
Calm Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Sometimes hugs may be more important than life or death But most times probably not, especially if that death is likely a very painful one and hugs can be looked forward to when the danger is past. And in an assisted living place, the person being hugged isn't the only potential victim, but 50 or a hundred or in my mother's case 119 other residents and all their families...including many that have chosen not to hug their families out of respect for the other residents' health as well as staff. But their choice to make sacrifices not to get sick may be preempted by someone who refuses to accept the rules of the facility applies to them and their family as well Edited April 21, 2020 by Calm
mfbukowski Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, Calm said: But most times probably not, especially if that death is likely a very painful one and hugs can be looked forward to when the danger is past. And in an assisted living place, the person being hugged isn't the only potential victim, but 50 or a hundred or in my mother's case 119 other residents and all their families...including many that have chosen not to hug their families out of respect for the other residents' health as well as staff. But their choice to make sacrifices not to get sick may be preempted by someone who refuses to accept the rules of the facility applies to them and their family as well Do you really think I didn't know that? Faith, not fear. The fear of death is not from God, and we are in it's grips. Edited April 21, 2020 by mfbukowski Clarification 1
Calm Posted April 21, 2020 Posted April 21, 2020 4 hours ago, mfbukowski said: Faith, not fear. The fear of death is not from God, and we are in it's grips. One can be cautious and caring about avoid suffering of those who are vulnerable without being fearful. Not everyone is reacting out of fear. 1
mfbukowski Posted April 22, 2020 Posted April 22, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Calm said: One can be cautious and caring about avoid suffering of those who are vulnerable without being fearful. Not everyone is reacting out of fear. As you know, we were not promised a rose garden. Learning how to keep the spirit while suffering is a main point of the gospel. But I am not going to discuss it further, we can agree to disagree. I could give you a lenghty list of my problems and surgeries but suffice it to say that I have learned much from suffering. I see it as one of the reasons for my life. For me it was a spiritual "University". I affirm it all. I learned that from Nietzsche and his "eternal recurrence." In my book it is a great lesson for we who follow the Church of Jesus Christ, listening to that atheist philosopher. But I still have to finish up my PhD. I guess I will add a link so others can see what I'm talking about. "" The Eternal Return and Suffering To “pass” this psychological test, and to respond to the demon with joy instead of disgust at the thought of having to live our life over and over, innumerable times more, requires that we reorient our attitude towards suffering. The problem with saying yes to every moment and wishing it would return again and again (and thus attaining a state of amor fati or “yes-saying”), is the all-pervading presence and inevitability of suffering in life. In order to say “Yes” to all existence we must say “Yes” to suffering. (For more information about how the presence of suffering can make it difficult to affirm existence, check out our video Suffering and the Meaning of Life) Suffering will always be a common feature of any life, but while most people try to escape from their suffering – drowning it out with distraction or muffling it with medications – it is possible to develop a positive relationship to it. We can accept our suffering, and even grow to love it. The idea of loving your suffering sounds quote foreign and unachievable, yet if we look back on our life it becomes obvious that our greatest changes and transformations occurred during deeply troubling times. It is common knowledge that the potential for growth and change accompanies experiences of hardship, struggle, and failure, but what is uncommon is the application of this knowledge when in the midst of deep pain or hardship. When suffering, most people do not welcome it and think of how much they’ll grow from it – but instead lament over their pain and seek to do away with it in any way they can. If we can hold in our mind in the midst of suffering the idea that suffering grants the possibility of growth we can rise above our pain, see the value in it, and detach from it so we can use it, manipulate it, for our benefit – in the service of growth and change. “I must first go down…deeper into pain than ever I descended, down into its blackest flood…Whence come the highest mountains? I once asked. Then I learned that they came out of the sea. The evidence is written in their rocks and in the walls of their peaks. It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height.” (Thus Spoke Zarathustra, Nietzsche) Such an attitude grants us the ability to say “Yes” to our suffering, and thus say “Yes” to life itself in all its confusion, chaos, and uncertainty. With such an attitude we would respond to the demon: “You are a God, and never did I hear anything so divine!” If we are to make the most of this turbulent life, and not grow bitter and stagnant with time, we must learn to say “Yes”: “For the game of creation, my brothers, a sacred ‘Yes’ is needed.” (Thus Spoke Zarathustra, Nietzsche) https://academyofideas.com/2016/02/nietzsche-the-eternal-return-suffering-and-the-affirmation-of-life/ Edited April 22, 2020 by mfbukowski Clarification
Calm Posted April 22, 2020 Posted April 22, 2020 (edited) I don't believe God likes the idea of us ignoring potential suffering of others that we could do something about to help. There is a reason we are counseled to help others and not just cross by the other side of the road when we see a need. This does not mean suffering is meaningless anymore than because God undertook the Atonement for us, our part of the repentance process is worthless. Suffering will always exist in a mortal, fallen world. It is multiplying of unnecessary suffering by ignoring needs of others we could reasonably do something about that I am focusing on. Edited April 22, 2020 by Calm
mfbukowski Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) I never advocated that Edited April 23, 2020 by mfbukowski
Ahab Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: What individual responsibility do I personally bear for the blood and sins of this generation? Which generation do you mean by "this" one? Do you consider yourself to be a part of this generation, or to have any influence in it? If you are a part of it or have any influence in it, then I would say you are personally responsible for your share in it. Just as I am. 4 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Am I really personally responsible for the death of the Kennedys as the Rolling Stones would imply? Is there any truth in it? I'm not familiar with what you are talking about.
mfbukowski Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Ahab said: Which generation do you mean by "this" one? After this is over, do some initiatories and then you tell me, ok? Edited April 24, 2020 by mfbukowski
Tacenda Posted April 24, 2020 Posted April 24, 2020 On 4/21/2020 at 8:10 PM, Calm said: I don't believe God likes the idea of us ignoring potential suffering of others that we could do something about to help. There is a reason we are counseled to help others and not just cross by the other side of the road when we see a need. This does not mean suffering is meaningless anymore than because God undertook the Atonement for us, our part of the repentance process is worthless. Suffering will always exist in a mortal, fallen world. It is multiplying of unnecessary suffering by ignoring needs of others we could reasonably do something about that I am focusing on. This would fit perfectly in the "What a Nightmare!" thread.
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