smac97 Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 27 minutes ago, JamesBYoung said: I have spelled it out as far as I know, Calm. So . . . gossip. That's all you've got. You don't know if what you are saying is true. 27 minutes ago, JamesBYoung said: The women do not include me in their ceremonies, whether ordination, priesthood blessings, or the attendance on women who are soon to birthe. What is clear is this: there is a dimension to women and priesthood in the LDS Church that almost all members do not know about or if they do, they know very little. No, that's not clear at all. Thanks, -Smac 4
SteveO Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 55 minutes ago, JamesBYoung said: I have spelled it out as far as I know, Calm. The women do not include me in their ceremonies, whether ordination, priesthood blessings, or the attendance on women who are soon to birthe. What is clear is this: there is a dimension to women and priesthood in the LDS Church that almost all members do not know about or if they do, they know very little. I haven’t read the entire thread, but...you aren’t an endowed member of the church, correct?
JamesBYoung Posted March 25, 2020 Author Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) Smac, you can think all that, but I don't care because I know you are wrong in your conclusions. You are being a gossip, not me. I know my sources, and I have everyone reason to believe they are accurate. Yes, SteveO, I am an endowed member of the Church of Jesus Christ, and I attended services until stopped. That many of you disagree with me is just fine by me. Edited March 25, 2020 by JamesBYoung
Amulek Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 13 hours ago, JamesBYoung said: Amulek, the sisters are not bothered by your discomfort, I am sure. Neither, I'm sure, are most liars, thieves, adulterers, etc. That doesn't mean they are justified in their actions though. Quote The practice may not be 'ok' by some of your standards and beliefs. That's fine. Don't practice them. Well, that's kind of the point many of us have been making: observant Latter-day Saints don't engage in such practices. Heretics and apostates on the other hand... 2
Amulek Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 12 hours ago, smac97 said: James is a newbie. I think he's just trying to provoke. Stir the pot. Quite possibly. I'm not seeing a lot of engagement in terms of substantive discussion on his end, so maybe he's just trolling us and we should move on. Quote What he is describing, a triple-hearsay anecdote about women being ordained to the priesthood because of the Coronavirus pandemic, is too farfetched to accept at face value. So I don't. The Church is large enough that I could grant the possibility of some small group of Saints, somewhere, having gone off the doctrinal rails. But, I'm certainly skeptical that what James is describing is one such occurrence. 1
JamesBYoung Posted March 25, 2020 Author Posted March 25, 2020 Amulek, you are not the guardian of God and His church, but you do evidence a dark spirit. Consider your own welfare with God.
Amulek Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, JamesBYoung said: Amulek, you are not the guardian of God and His church [...] I guess that depends on what one means by the word "guardian." If we're talking about in a legal sense, where a guardian is one who looks after someone incapable of managing his own affairs, then I'll give you that. God is certainly capable of managing His own church. Perhaps the difference between your sister's friends and me is simply that I believe God is properly managing the affairs of his church already. Whereas they, in opposition to the church, have taken it upon themselves to decide how the priesthood should really operate. So, if that's what you mean by the word "guardian," then perhaps you're talking to the wrong person - sounds like your sister's friends have got that roll covered already. Now, if you mean to use the word "guardian" in a more general sense - to mean a "defender" or a "protector," then I would most assuredly consider myself to be a guardian of God and His Church - unashamedly so. Quote [...] but you do evidence a dark spirit. I know you claim to be a member, but "dark spirit" has got a real Protestant ring to it. That, coupled with the way you seem to speak about mainstream members as being 'other,' really makes me think you might be trolling us here. Quote Consider your own welfare with God. I appreciate your concern. I will be sure to give it the consideration it deserves. Edited March 25, 2020 by Amulek 4
Popular Post smac97 Posted March 25, 2020 Popular Post Posted March 25, 2020 38 minutes ago, JamesBYoung said: Amulek, you are not the guardian of God and His church, but you do evidence a dark spirit. Consider your own welfare with God. Yep. Trolling. -Smac 5
The Nehor Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 45 minutes ago, JamesBYoung said: Amulek, you are not the guardian of God and His church, but you do evidence a dark spirit. Consider your own welfare with God. You are laughable. 59 minutes ago, JamesBYoung said: Yes, SteveO, I am an endowed member of the Church of Jesus Christ, and I attended services until stopped. Amazing. Most people keep attending after they stop.
JamesBYoung Posted March 25, 2020 Author Posted March 25, 2020 What you guys believe about any of this is immaterial to me or to the sisters who believe as they do.
The Nehor Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 Just now, JamesBYoung said: What you guys believe about any of this is immaterial to me or to the sisters who believe as they do. OH NO!!!!!!!!!!! Please say it isn't so! 1
Amulek Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 15 minutes ago, JamesBYoung said: What you guys believe about any of this is immaterial to me or to the sisters who believe as they do. Um...if you don't care what anyone else thinks, why on earth did you bother starting this thread to begin with? 2
let’s roll Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 Feed the trolls and what do you get...fat trolls (paraphrasing Mr. Banks). 1
Rain Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) I do believe some women might believe they are ordained to bless the sacrament. We have enough people like Denver Snuffer, Julie Rowe, Kate Kelly to show us it could be done. The question is do they actually get ordained by authority through our church. Most here say no (I am one). I get the impression James is implying yes, but either has a lack of understanding of the process or believes something like the women have been given special authority. This is part of why I am asking why he started the thread. Is he informing us that permission is now being given by church leaders? Is he just informing us that it is now being done without approval by church leadership? That's a little unclear to me. Or is the thread trying to convince others that it is ok to ordain women without approval from leadership as long as you have personal inspiration? Or is he trying to show there is evidence that this is ok? Unfortunately, all we get is it is being done by women who got it through "active, temple going members of the priesthood". Edited March 25, 2020 by Rain 3
smac97 Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, JamesBYoung said: Smac, you can think all that, but I don't care because I know you are wrong in your conclusions. Actually no, you don't. That's the problem with hearsay. You only "know" what you've (purportedly) been told. You are (purportedly) telling us what your (purportedly) sister has said others have (purportedly) said. Anonymous multiple hearsay is not reliable. Plus, again, we don't know you. And your behavior here is not doing anything to create credibility for yourself. To the contrary, the more you try to troll and stir the pot, the more spurious your claims appear. Quote You are being a gossip, not me. Not so. You are purveying gossip. That's all. Quote I know my sources, and I have everyone reason to believe they are accurate. But we don't know them. And we don't know you, either. And we have no reason to believe you (or them). Quote Yes, SteveO, I am an endowed member of the Church of Jesus Christ, and I attended services until stopped. I'm increasingly skeptical of that, too. An observant Latter-day Saint would not go to a message board populated by fellow members, make outlandish claims about women being ordained, which claims are based on multiple hearsay, while hiding behind a pseudonym. An observant Latter-day Saint would also likely not say something like "you do evidence a dark spirit." As Amulek noted, "I know you claim to be a member, but 'dark spirit' has got a real Protestant ring to it." Sorry, dude. We're just not buying what you're trying to sell. Quote That many of you disagree with me is just fine by me. It's not really a point of disagreement. You are saying something we do not believe to be true. We have no reason to accept your unsubstantiated, uncorroborated anecdote based on multiple hearsay. You're just stirring the pot. Purveying gossip. -Smac Edited March 25, 2020 by smac97 3
Calm Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 2 hours ago, JamesBYoung said: That many of you disagree with me is just fine by me. There is a pretty vague statement that gives us nothing to really work with to see if we could agree with you, so good that you are fine with it. 1
smac97 Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, Rain said: I do believe some women might believe they are ordained to bless the sacrament. We have enough people like Denver Snuffer, Julie Rowe, Kate Kelly to show us it could be done. If this is happening, it's being done in secret. This sort of thing can't last long. 5 minutes ago, Rain said: The question is do they actually get ordained by authority through our church. Most here say no (I am one). I get the impression James is implying yes, but either has a lack of understanding of the process or believes something like the women have been given special authority. I think James is not being straight with us. He's just trolling. Stirring the pot. 5 minutes ago, Rain said: This is part of why I am asking why he started the thread. Is he informing us that permission is now being given by church leaders? Is he just informing us that it is now being done without approval by church leadership? That's a little unclear to me. Or is the thread trying to convince others that it is ok to ordain women without approval from leadership as long as you have personal inspiration? Or is he trying to show there is evidence that this is ok? Unfortunately, all we get is it is being done by women who got it through "active, temple going members of the priesthood". Yep. I suspect he's fabricating the whole thing. Thanks, -Smac 1
JamesBYoung Posted March 25, 2020 Author Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) Rain wrote, "Unfortunately, all we get is it is being done by women who got it through 'active, temple going members of the priesthood'". I reported, Rain, on a phenomenon I thought interesting, yet all the attacking on me is mere trolling in my opinion. I have no obligation to answer questions that I feel are not of interest to me. Now anyone can disagree with me and do it politely enough as I do with them. I understand the Brethren will not agree with the sisters, at least not right now. I do agree, though, with the women. Edited March 25, 2020 by JamesBYoung
Bernard Gui Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 On 3/22/2020 at 4:00 PM, Bob Crockett said: I think live endowments and sealings will be authorized in stake presidents offices this conf. Will their offices be consecrated and dedicated for this work like the temples are? Will non-members or members without recommends be allowed to come into their offices at other times?
JamesBYoung Posted March 25, 2020 Author Posted March 25, 2020 We know that at times endowments, sealings, baptisms for the dead have done outside of the temples since 1840. If Stake Presidents' offices or elsewhere are approved by the Brethren, that should suffice for anyone.
Bernard Gui Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 On 3/24/2020 at 10:39 AM, Scott Lloyd said: While I fully agree with the above, I will add that there has been explicit instruction from the First Presidency to local leaders that everyone in their local units have opportunity to receive the sacrament (by proper authority and exercise of keys) at least once a month while we weather this crisis. I believe we all have a stake in supporting them in carrying out this directive. There are ways to do this without actual physical contact among members. For example, we have had several friends and family members come to our door. We converse at a respectful distance without them coming in our touching us. A father/son partnership, or even just one priesthood holder if authorized, could perform the ordinance in a way that would expose no one to contamination. 1
mgy401 Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, JamesBYoung said: If Stake Presidents' offices or elsewhere are approved by the Brethren, that should suffice for anyone. Isn’t the whole point of this thread, that it matters not a fig whether the Brethren approve or not? 2
Calm Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 16 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: There are ways to do this without actual physical contact among members. For example, we have had several friends and family members come to our door. We converse at a respectful distance without them coming in our touching us. A father/son partnership, or even just one priesthood holder if authorized, could perform the ordinance in a way that would expose no one to contamination. The only problem I see is the breaking of the bread being done by the priest. I assume there is no reason that can’t be done with gloves?
JamesBYoung Posted March 25, 2020 Author Posted March 25, 2020 1 hour ago, mgy401 said: Isn’t the whole point of this thread, that it matters not a fig whether the Brethren approve or not? There is a mighty majority here that do believe that whether the Brethren approve is the end all be all, right? Cheryl L. Bruno's upcoming book out next month from Kofford Books and Melvin C. Johnson's article in the John Whitmer Historical Association Journal last September give plenty of examples of the Brethren doing endowments and ordinances outside of the temple environment.
Recommended Posts