'Damned' Vs 'Dammed'- Anyone Have a Dictionary?

[Ahab]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

When I've heard the word used to denote a stopping of progress, it's in connection with what occurs after the final judgement.  As far as I can find, the church does not teach progress (or repentance) after the final judgement.

Good reasoning.  Nice to know I won't be committing any more sins after that time, including unintentional sins.  So what does that give me, how long do I have until I become totally perfect?  Hmm.  1000 years + however many more years until the last millennium starts.

Possible, I suppose.

[Sunslight]

3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I agree. 

As far as I’ve heard it used, those who have used the symbolism of damming to illustrate the state of those who aren’t exalted seem to agree with that as well. 

But, it is a misapplication in my opinion. The scriptures define "damnation" as the condemnation and judgment pronounced upon the wicked by God. 

[Ahab]

1 minute ago, Sunslight said:

But, it is a misapplication in my opinion. The scriptures define "damnation" as the condemnation and judgment pronounced upon the wicked by God. 

Makes sense.  Nobody but the wicked would be limited or stopped in their progression to becoming perfectly good and perfectly intelligent.  People who do everything right and who want to do everything right would have no good reason to stop.

[Sunslight]

7 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Makes sense.  Nobody but the wicked would be limited or stopped in their progression to becoming perfectly good and perfectly intelligent.  People who do everything right and who want to do everything right would have no good reason to stop.

Except for the fact that generally with the wicked they are doing the opposite of progressing during mortality. It isn't until they become temporarily damned to spirit prison that they see the error of their ways, change course and begin making progressive steps that lead ultimately to salvation.

[bluebell]

12 minutes ago, Sunslight said:

But, it is a misapplication in my opinion. The scriptures define "damnation" as the condemnation and judgment pronounced upon the wicked by God. 

I don’t think it’s a misapplication as much as it’s an attempt to use a homonym to teach a doctrinal concept. 

[Ahab]

4 minutes ago, Sunslight said:

Except for the fact that generally with the wicked they are doing the opposite of progressing during mortality. It isn't until they become temporarily damned to spirit prison that they see the error of their ways, change course and begin making progressive steps that lead ultimately to salvation.

Do you have any references to show that is how it will work for everyone who goes to spirit prison?  I don't remember where I got the idea but I've been told that some people in spirit prison will not repent and will instead pay for their own sins, at which time, when the last farthing has been paid, By God's accounting, they will then be counted among those with Telestial glory.  I think maybe only those who will receive Terrestrial glory will be among those who choose to repent and change their ways, realizing they made their mistakes.  

[Sunslight]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

I don’t think it’s a misapplication as much as it’s an attempt to use a homonym to teach a doctrinal concept. 

Except that our church defines damnation as "The state of being stopped in one’s progress and denied access to the presence of God and His glory." (Guide to the Scriptures) 

The misapplication is that we know the spirits in prison are not stopped in their progress. D&C 138 teaches us that the spirits who are there can repent and accept the gospel along with its saving ordinances and thus "progress".

[Sunslight]

1 hour ago, Ahab said:

Do you have any references to show that is how it will work for everyone who goes to spirit prison?  I don't remember where I got the idea but I've been told that some people in spirit prison will not repent and will instead pay for their own sins, at which time, when the last farthing has been paid, By God's accounting, they will then be counted among those with Telestial glory.  I think maybe only those who will receive Terrestrial glory will be among those who choose to repent and change their ways, realizing they made their mistakes.  

We know that Christ is able to save all those who repent. Not all will choose to repent and they are they who go into eternal damnation with the Devil and his angels.

[bluebell]

14 minutes ago, Sunslight said:

Except that our church defines damnation as "The state of being stopped in one’s progress and denied access to the presence of God and His glory." (Guide to the Scriptures) 

The misapplication is that we know the spirits in prison are not stopped in their progress. D&C 138 teaches us that the spirits who are there can repent and accept the gospel along with its saving ordinances and thus "progress".

Again though, I've never seen this applied to anyone in the spirit world.  I've only ever seen it used to teach about the state of those who are not exalted, which occurs after the final judgement and everyone has already progressed to their final state.

[Sunslight]

9 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Again though, I've never seen this applied to anyone in the spirit world.  I've only ever seen it used to teach about the state of those who are not exalted, which occurs after the final judgement and everyone has already progressed to their final state.

What would be most important would be two things. First, use the scriptures to show that damnation means something besides how traditional Christianity views it as defined as to be condemned to hell. Second, use the Scripture to prove that some souls who are saved are stopped in their progress, or, show using scriptures where anything less than exaltation in the highest degree of the salvation is damnation. I haven't been able to find these correlations at all. 

[Ahab]

27 minutes ago, Sunslight said:

We know that Christ is able to save all those who repent. Not all will choose to repent and they are they who go into eternal damnation with the Devil and his angels.

Can you cite any scriptures to back up this idea?  I've been told that all will receive at least Telestial glory unless they actually fight against the work of God, like Satan and his angels do. And I've also been told that laws will be different for each level of glory, so it will be very easy for people of Telestial glory to be law-abiding citizens on planets governed by Telestial laws even though they would not and did not qualify for Terrestrial or Celestial glory.  

The level of glory we will receive is pretty much determined by which laws we are willing to live by.  Nobody will be "punished" for not being baptized or for not receiving a testimony from the Holy Ghost, as long as they do not deny it after having received it.  A lot of crime will be eliminated simply by virtue that people won't die anymore, so murder will not even be possible, and someone threatening to hurt somebody else will be laughed at because there is nothing they would be able to do to hurt them.  No sickness and no need to eat to survive.  Telestial life will be so easy that anybody could do it without any effort, or with very little effort if any effort is required.

Celestial life is only for those who comply with all of the laws and ordinances of the gospel, and not receiving or not complying with any of that is why many people will receive only Terrestrial glory, at best.

[mfbukowski]

7 hours ago, bluebell said:

Sorry for the confusion, but you haven't understood me correctly.

I never said always and I never said temporary.  The couple of times that I have heard that definition used, it has been to describe the permanent state of those who are not exalted.

Sorry for the confusion.

Please repeat using full sentences, that is why I am confused

When did you never say always or never say temporary? In what contexts?

Which definition is "that" definition which you have only heard used for those who are not exalted "a few times"?

How relevant or irrelevant would any definition be if it was only used a few times?

[Sunslight]

3 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Can you cite any scriptures to back up this idea?  I've been told that all will receive at least Telestial glory unless they actually fight against the work of God, like Satan and his angels do. And I've also been told that laws will be different for each level of glory, so it will be very easy for people of Telestial glory to be law-abiding citizens on planets governed by Telestial laws even though they would not and did not qualify for Terrestrial or Celestial glory.  

The level of glory we will receive is pretty much determined by which laws we are willing to live by.  Nobody will be "punished" for not being baptized or for not receiving a testimony from the Holy Ghost, as long as they do not deny it after having received it.  A lot of crime will be eliminated simply by virtue that people won't die anymore, so murder will not even be possible, and someone threatening to hurt somebody else will be laughed at because there is nothing they would be able to do to hurt them.  No sickness and no need to eat to survive.  Telestial life will be so easy that anybody could do it without any effort, or with very little effort if any effort is required.

Celestial life is only for those who comply with all of the laws and ordinances of the gospel, and not receiving or not complying with any of that is why many people will receive only Terrestrial glory, at best.

Sure.

44 And they that believe not unto eternal damnation; for they cannot be redeemed from their spiritual fall, because they repent not;
            45 For they love darkness rather than light, and their deeds are evil, and they receive their wages of whom they list to obey.

That from section 29

 

[Ahab]

7 minutes ago, Sunslight said:

Sure.

44 And they that believe not unto eternal damnation; for they cannot be redeemed from their spiritual fall, because they repent not;
            45 For they love darkness rather than light, and their deeds are evil, and they receive their wages of whom they list to obey.

That from section 29

 

That isn't at all clear about who is being referred to.  It could possibly refer to people who will receive the lowest level of glory and nothing more, at least not until they are willing to repent at which case that condemnation wouldn't apply anymore because they are then repenting, or it could possibly refer to those who do not receive any level of glory, not even Telestial glory.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Ahab

[mfbukowski]

2 hours ago, Sunslight said:

Have you ever wondered though if our meaning of the word "damnation" is wrong? That it is being misused according to a faulty series of assumptions? As far as I can tell in my research  Joseph Smith understood damnation in the typical sense other Christians understood it. It wasn't unto after his death in the late 1800's that due to a lack of understanding common English the word "dammed" started being used interchangeably. One such publication dated 1896 documented where it was used interchangeably.

The most direct answer is yes I think you could be right. But I am odd in that I do not accept traditional vocabularies for what they used to say.

The ancestors of everyone who lives in Italy used to speak Latin. Spanish also is a descendant linguistically of Latin.

So is Romanian for that matter.

But no one believes that any word in those three languages should be interpreted as it was in the times of the Romans.

I very much like the idea of in permanent separation as opposed to permanent separation from God. And so I have always gone with and will continue believing that only temporary separation actually happens.

More accurately I think that only temporary separation creates a better paradigm Paradigm for a Christian belief system.

Remember the idea of Temple worship is delivering those who are separated from God back to fellowship and perhaps exaltation. That whole idea is definitely in opposition to the idea of permanent separation for Deeds Done in this life.

That is the primary reason I see temporary separation only as a consistent part of the LDS paradigm regardless of what Joseph thought or did not think.

I see Joseph as an inspired philosopher.

I do not take every word out of his mouth as infallible, nor is that the way I see present Prophets either.

This was dictated on my phone excuse odd capitals etc

[bluebell]

18 minutes ago, Sunslight said:

What would be most important would be two things. First, use the scriptures to show that damnation means something besides how traditional Christianity views it as defined as to be condemned to hell.

I've never heard it taught by someone who believed that damnation means something besides the traditional Christian view.  As I said before, I've heard it used as an interesting way to teach the concept of not receiving exaltation, not as a scriptural definition of the word damned.

Quote

Second, use the Scripture to prove that some souls who are saved are stopped in their progress, or, show using scriptures where anything less than exaltation in the highest degree of the salvation is damnation. I haven't been able to find these correlations at all. 

You are using a very specific definition of 'saved' but there is more than one definition of that word.  And I think it would depend on how the person teaching the concept of being spiritual dammed was defining the word saved. It would also depend on how that person was defining the word progression.

Elder Oaks taught in his 1980 GC talk that there are multpile definitions of the word saved or salvation, and all are legitimate.  It just depends on what a person is talking about.  For example, saved and salvation can be--

"used to denote exaltation or eternal life (see Abr. 2:11). This is sometimes referred to as the “fulness of salvation” (Bruce R. McConkie, The Mortal Messiah, 4 vols. [1979–81], 1:242). This salvation requires more than repentance and baptism by appropriate priesthood authority. It also requires the making of sacred covenants, including eternal marriage, in the temples of God, and faithfulness to those covenants by enduring to the end."

Likewise, progression can be used to denote the ability to grow to become like God and Christ, something that is only possible in the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom.

So, if someone is using the words saved to mean exalted, and using the word progress to mean the ability to eventually become like God, anyone who is not exalted could be described as being dammed.

[Navidad]

4 hours ago, Ahab said:

I recommend that you study, ponder and pray while reading  D&C 93 to get whatever good you can from it.  I get and have already received a lot from those words but I don't want to spend a lot of time telling you what I have because what I have may not be what you will get even if I  spend a lot of time and  energy expounding on all that I have received from those words through the power of the Holy  Spirit.  My understanding of what intelligence is came from verse 36 in the context of the whole section as I received it through the power of the Holy  Spirit.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/93?lang=eng

You say a lot of other things here and I don't want to spend a lot of time getting into all of that because I don't think you would receive what I tell you, but I will tell you that Church membership is a lot more important than you seem to think it is.  I think maybe the reason you don't think Church membership is very important is because of your idea that there are 2 churches which Christians can choose to join.  One church which you seem to think is an invisible church and the other church as ANY other Christian church anyone wants to join.  That is not how I see things, and I think I agree with most who are "LDS" on this.  In my perspective there is only one true church of Jesus Christ, and a Christian is either a member or isn't.  In other words, in my perspective, the church which you think is an invisible church, the one you think all Christians automatically become a member of as soon as they consider themselves to be a Christian, is a false portrayal of reality and instead the truth is that there is only way to get into the one and only true church of Christ and that is through baptism and confirmation by the laying on of hands by those who have authority in the church to confirm someone as a member of it, at which time that Christian is then a member of the very same church that we (LDS) refer to as The Church of Jesus Christ or Latter-day Saints, which itself is a restoration of the one and only true church of Christ which Jesus Christ restored during his mortal ministry, both of which are the same church as the true church of Christ as it has existed since who knows when it was established.  Same church, but in different periods of time.

Maybe once you understand that you will begin to understand why we believe that all of the scriptures you study from the Bible are actually our scriptures, written by apostles and prophets of our Church, including Adam and Enoch and Noah and Abraham and Moses and Isaiah and all of the prophets who lived during the times the Old Testament mentions, and all of the apostles and prophets mentioned in the New Testament as well.  Those people were members and prophets and apostles of our Church, before the time we refer to as the period of the Great Apostasy, just as Joseph Smith and Brigham Young and all of the latter day prophets and apostles are members of that same church that was a restoration of that same church in a previous time. 

I don't know if you'll even understand what I am trying to tell you, and even if you do I'm pretty sure you still will not agree with our latter-day teachings.  We can lead people to water but we can't make them drink it or be baptized in it, but you can know it is true with God's help.

 

Hi Ahab: I will do as you suggest with D&C 93. Thanks. Obviously I don't think my view is a "false portrayal," but I do appreciate your perspective. I hope you appreciate that I belong to, and have found much to appreciate in a restorational church that has been around for over five hundred years! It is not Protestant, nor is it creedal, and has endured persecution like perhaps no other at the hands of both Protestants and Catholics. It has literally been refined by fire. Having said that bit of Mennonite ethnocentric pride, I have come to have a strong testimony from the Holy Spirit that salvation and sanctification come through the church only as it teaches and provides opportunity for worship, ministry, and fellowship. That is, I believe the only role for any institution of faith. I worked for 11 years for ServiceMaster. They are a secular company whose slogan is "Masters of Service, Serving the Master." It has often been called a Christian company. I reject that because Christ didn't die for companies, nor is his atonement only made possible via any particular church. I do seek to understand what you are trying to tell me. I agree with many latter-day teachings and certainly enjoy the fellowship and worship opportunities. And I enjoy the people in our ward. They have been very kind to us, especially the leaders. I have already drunk of the water of life and have been baptized by someone with authority to baptize me in my church. You do not have to lead me to either the water of life or the baptismal pool. I will not try and convince you to become a Mennonite because that is a. not in my heart; b. you have no need to become Mennonite or Methodist or Baptist or anything but what you are - a Godly LDS Christian. I know your doctrine doesn't allow you to say the same to me. I regret that, but I do understand it. Thanks for your kind and helpful posts. Oh, and I am already looking forward to studying D&C 93 later this evening. We have a ward choir practice tonight. A dear sweet lady in our ward died yesterday and we are singing at her funeral on Saturday. 

Edited January 16, 2020 by Navidad

[CV75]

3 hours ago, Sunslight said:

Yes, the church does seem to suggest such. The scriptures also seem to suggest such. The scriptures teach both a temporary damnation and an "eternal damnation". The temporary damnation is pronounced upon those wicked souls who are judged and who then go into spirit prison at death. The "eternal damnation" which is what is generally referred to in the plan of salvation will only be pronounced upon the Sons of Perdition. Christ will redeem all the rest through the great plan of redemption.

...and then there is also a partial, yet permanent (degree of) damnation. The spirit prison "dams" the progress of condemned spirits until they repent (which is therefore a only temporary damming); the resurrection dams the progress of souls unto further repentance (which is therefore a permanent, but not necessarily an eternal degree of, damming (perdition)--though "eternal" in that exaltation is withheld). The first instance may be considered to be punitive unto rehabilitation ("endless punishment, for Endless is my name", D&C 19:10); the second simply restorative according to one's comfort level, which is the "proper order" (Alma 41:2) of agency.

Edited January 16, 2020 by CV75

[Navidad]

1 hour ago, Sunslight said:

We know that Christ is able to save all those who repent. Not all will choose to repent and they are they who go into eternal damnation with the Devil and his angels.

Hi: First of all welcome to the forum. When you say "all those who repent." What is it that they are repenting from? You also say "Not all will choose to repent . . . " Same question . . . from what are they choosing not to repent? Just seeking to understand what you are saying. Thanks.

[bluebell]

36 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Sorry for the confusion.

Please repeat using full sentences, that is why I am confused

When did you never say always or never say temporary? In what contexts?

Which definition is "that" definition which you have only heard used for those who are not exalted "a few times"?

How relevant or irrelevant would any definition be if it was only used a few times?

You said "IF I understand [bluebell] correctly- that being "damned" always means "stopped in progression" as a river is, on a temporary basis."  

You haven't understood my correctly because none of my posts mentioned that being damned always meaning stopped in progression on a temporary basis.  

The definition that I have only ever heard used a few times is the one that you presented in the OP.  That damned means "stopping spiritual progression".

[Ahab]

12 minutes ago, Navidad said:

Hi Ahab: I will do as you suggest with D&C 93. Thanks. Obviously I don't think my view is a "false portrayal," but I do appreciate your perspective. I hope you appreciate that I belong to, and have found much to appreciate in a restorational church that has been around for over five hundred years! It is not Protestant, nor is it creedal, and has endured persecution like perhaps no other at the hands of both Protestants and Catholics. It has literally been refined by fire. Having said that bit of Mennonite ethnocentric pride, I have come to have a strong testimony from the Holy Spirit that salvation and sanctification come through the church only as it teaches and provides opportunity for worship, ministry, and fellowship. That is, I believe the only role for any institution of faith. I worked for 11 years for ServiceMaster. They are a secular company whose slogan is "Masters of Service, Serving the Master." It has often been called a Christian company. I reject that because Christ didn't die for companies, nor is his atonement made possible via any particular church. I do seek to understand what you are trying to tell me. I agree with many latter-day teachings and certainly enjoy the fellowship and worship opportunities. And I enjoy the people in our ward. They have been very kind to us, especially the leaders. I have already drunk of the water of life and have been baptized by someone with authority to baptize me in my church. You do not have to lead me to either the water of life or the baptismal pool. I will not try and convince you to become a Mennonite because that is a. not in my heart; b. you have no need to become Mennonite or Methodist or Baptist or anything but what you are - a Godly LDS Christian. I know your doctrine doesn't allow you to say the same to me. I regret that, but I do understand it. Thanks for your kind and helpful posts. Oh, and I am already looking forward to studying D&C 93 later this evening. We have a ward choir practice tonight. A dear sweet lady in our ward died yesterday and we are singing at her funeral on Saturday. 

 You are a very nice person and I do enjoy sharing my understanding of the gospel with you.  And I can also probably learn a thing or two from you, such as how to be such a nice person even in the face of conflict, maybe. I'll try to avoid vain repetition because I don't think that will do either one of us any good and instead will just respond if you ask me for more clarification, or if I see you are trying to understand something that I think I can maybe help you to understand.  I think one of the problems with trying to teach other people is that the people who teach often want to see results happening quickly, so that if no results seem to be visible, the one who is trying to teach simply moves on to others who maybe will accept those teachings more quickly.  I do think trying to teach others is important,  but timing is important, too. So while you may catch on and start believing as I do, someday, maybe, I don't see that happening in the near future, if ever. So for me you will be more practice to help me develop more patience with people as I desire to teach what I believe and what God has told me is true.  Hopefully I'll serve some useful purpose for you, too, even if you never agree or choose to accept my beliefs.  I have progressed quite a bit from how I was in earlier years.  My Dad and my Granddad were both preachers/ministers in their church and for quite a while I wanted to be just like them, openly sharing my beliefs with others while being focused on trying to get them to believe as I do.  I've got more of a live and let live approach now than I did then but sometimes I still enjoy "preaching" and it seems to come naturally, without much if any effort.

Anyway, I do hope the best for you and I'll try to help you as well as I can while trying to avoid being pushy.   The gospel is my favorite topic and I am glad to have the opportunity to share it with people, as I can, on this board.

[Sunslight]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

I've never heard it taught by someone who believed that damnation means something besides the traditional Christian view.  As I said before, I've heard it used as an interesting way to teach the concept of not receiving exaltation, not as a scriptural definition of the word damned.

You are using a very specific definition of 'saved' but there is more than one definition of that word.  And I think it would depend on how the person teaching the concept of being spiritual dammed was defining the word saved. It would also depend on how that person was defining the word progression.

Elder Oaks taught in his 1980 GC talk that there are multpile definitions of the word saved or salvation, and all are legitimate.  It just depends on what a person is talking about.  For example, saved and salvation can be--

"used to denote exaltation or eternal life (see Abr. 2:11). This is sometimes referred to as the “fulness of salvation” (Bruce R. McConkie, The Mortal Messiah, 4 vols. [1979–81], 1:242). This salvation requires more than repentance and baptism by appropriate priesthood authority. It also requires the making of sacred covenants, including eternal marriage, in the temples of God, and faithfulness to those covenants by enduring to the end."

Likewise, progression can be used to denote the ability to grow to become like God and Christ, something that is only possible in the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom.

So, if someone is using the words saved to mean exalted, and using the word progress to mean the ability to eventually become like God, anyone who is not exalted could be described as being dammed.

So, are you damned right now? Are we all damned right now? We aren't exalted yet, so, does this mean we are damned until we get to be exalted?

In the scriptures damnation refers to a specific type of condemnation that comes upon the wicked and unrepentant. 

In the doctrine regarding the plan of redemption being "saved" always refers to being saved from the awful death and hell that awaits the wicked.

[Calm]

4 hours ago, bluebell said:

I don’t think it’s a misapplication as much as it’s an attempt to use a homonym to teach a doctrinal concept. 

Word play has a long tradition in teaching.

[Sunslight]

1 hour ago, Navidad said:

Hi: First of all welcome to the forum. When you say "all those who repent." What is it that they are repenting from? You also say "Not all will choose to repent . . . " Same question . . . from what are they choosing not to repent? Just seeking to understand what you are saying. Thanks.

Welcome indeed, thanks! We must repent of all our sins or we cannot be saved from the eternal hell. Choosing not to repent means one remains filthy and remains in their wicked and evil ways.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Sunslight said:

We know that Christ is able to save all those who repent. Not all will choose to repent and they are they who go into eternal damnation with the Devil and his angels.

Gospel Principles manual divides Spirit Prison into those learning the Gospel and repenting and those refusing to access Christ's Atonement to repent and therefore suffering for their sins in hell.  But these latter go to a Kingdom of glory.

Only those in active rebellion, not just refusing the gift of the Atonement and not repenting, but trying to destroy God's work end up as Sons of Perdition completely cast out of the Presence of God into outer darkness.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-41-the-postmortal-spirit-world?lang=eng

Quote

Spirit Prison

The Apostle Peter referred to the postmortal spirit world as a prison, which it is for some (see 1 Peter 3:18–20). In the spirit prison are the spirits of those who have not yet received the gospel of Jesus Christ. These spirits have agency and may be enticed by both good and evil. If they accept the gospel and the ordinances performed for them in the temples, they may leave the spirit prison and dwell in paradise.

Also in the spirit prison are those who rejected the gospel after it was preached to them either on earth or in the spirit prison. These spirits suffer in a condition known as hell. They have removed themselves from the mercy of Jesus Christ, who said, “Behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; but if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit” (D&C 19:16–18). After suffering for their sins, they will be allowed, through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, to inherit the lowest degree of glory, which is the telestial kingdom.

What is happening to Sons of Perdition postmortality is not specified, but it seems logical that they are actively refusing to go through the purification process of suffering for sin in hell.  Perhaps hell is divided (physically, emotionally?) into two parts, the purifying suffering (purifies of sins but does not replace that sin to fill the souls with God's grace...an emptied of sin vessel, but empty of grace as well) and some sort of holding area for those who choose the path of Perdition, where they are also not protected from the consequences of the choices and therefore are suffering, but are not purified by such...perhaps because they blame/curse God rather than accept their own accountability?

Quote

These are they who had testimonies of Jesus through the Holy Ghost and knew the power of the Lord but allowed Satan to overcome them. They denied the truth and defied the power of the Lord. There is no forgiveness for them, for they denied the Holy Spirit after having received it. They will not have a kingdom of glory. They will live in eternal darkness, torment, and misery with Satan and his angels

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-46-the-final-judgment?lang=eng

What if Spirit Prison is less Prison and more Rehab where those who accept the Atonement get the equivalent of a drug that counteracts physical addiction, those who don't have to go through the pains of withdrawal on their own, and sons of Perdition are those who take off from rehab and seek out the active addict community (Satan and others choosing darkness even when this binds them) and revel in their own self destruction.

Edited January 17, 2020 by Calm