Update on Story Re: Missing Kids (Daybell)

[Calm]

4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Notice in the comments on youtube that JJ's grandmother is commenting.

Where in the thread is she commenting?  Or maybe summarize anything she said?  Is she going by Kay?

[katherine the great]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

Where in the thread is she commenting?  Or maybe summarize anything she said?  Is she going by Kay?

It looks like there are over 600 comments so it might be hard to find. The interview however was actually very interesting I thought. She sounds like a nice, normal person.

[Tacenda]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

Where in the thread is she commenting?  Or maybe summarize anything she said?  Is she going by Kay?

I've gone back to find it and can't see it. There was another person that was a verified poster and now can't see that either. Wish I had copied it. 

[Calm]

52 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I've gone back to find it and can't see it. There was another person that was a verified poster and now can't see that either. Wish I had copied it. 

Maybe they asked to be removed.  

Do you remember what they commented about? (Assuming they commented and are either hard to find or got removed)

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Maybe they asked to be removed.  

Do you remember what they commented about? (Assuming they commented and are either hard to find or got removed)

No, isn't that terrible? I don't dare guess either.

[Calm]

10 hours ago, Tacenda said:

No, isn't that terrible? I don't dare guess either.

Chances are that means it wasn’t new info.  

From McConkie:

 

 

[Calm]

Allegedly CourtTV is confirming CD was excommunicated, notified in midJuly, council held on Aug 2.  They showed letters from leadership.  

added:  watched part of it, looks like it was on grounds of apostasy…which makes sense as they usually wait on excommunication after criminal cases in the case of criminal actions being the cause of excommunication, I believe…unless confessed perhaps?  Not that familiar with the rules.

  They had more than enough evidence he was teaching apostate ideas though.  That is not a crime, so such a council need only involve the apostasy evidence and the judgment of church leaders, not the results of criminal investigations.

Apparently the jail did not pass on the letter still a month after the council was held, I doubt it would have made a difference, but perhaps CD would have tried to defend himself against the charge of apostasy. The texts and emails from him showing his teachings weren’t fully released at the time and he may have thought they didn’t have enough evidence yet about how far he went.

 

Edited October 30, 2021 by Calm

[Calm]

Full video of Gibb interview in August 2020:

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/video/995710

[Calm]

It should be noted it is only Mark Means, her original attorney involved in the motion and there is no indication he received the info about the therapy and phone call content from anyone but LVD as far as I am aware. 
 

Jim Archibald is the senior attorney and is apparently who McConkie contacted. There would be no need for McConkie to also contact Means. If Archibald hadn’t told Means yet, that is on him. 

[katherine the great]

I just saw this:

Daybell’s new motion

[Calm]

And Daybell’s attorney, Prior, continues to insist on calling her Lori Vallow just as she and her attorney insist she be addressed as Daybell.  It is almost amusing seeing this tug of war going on.  It seems a pretty clear sign that CD is not as invested in their relationship as LVD or he would be insisting Prior treat LVD with respect, including using her married name.  But from the beginning Prior’s approach has appeared to be working on discrediting LVD, pushing it all on her and her brother, Alex.  He hinted at an overly intimate relationship between the two with his cross examination of Melanie Gibb and this has been confirmed to some extent by the interview with the exwife of Alex Cox ( https://www.eastidahonews.com/2021/10/listen-ex-wife-details-bizarre-relationship-between-alex-cox-and-lori-vallow-daybell/ ) 

I would have thought Prior would have had to refer to her by her legal name in legal documents.  Does marriage automatically allow one to change one’s name or does one have to file with the government first?  I can’t remember if I did or didn’t, though I remember getting some stuff from the government in my maiden name initially and being concerned about it.

Here is the summary of the motion from Justin Lum, one of the Arizona reporters following the case:

Quote

DAYBELL MOTION FOR DISCOVERY: A lengthy filing by Chad Daybell’s attorney John Prior brings up the allegations of a clinician with the Idaho Department of Health and Welfare telling Lori Vallow to call an attorney who serves as legal counsel to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The attorney Daniel McConkie is not licensed in the State of Idaho and is based in Utah. Vallow’s attorney previously filed multiple motions, accusing McConkie of having a conversation with his client and calling prosecutor Rob Wood.

Prior is motioning for discovery of a “full and complete record” on the matter and an evidentiary hearing in which he can call on witnesses like the state employee, McConkie and Rob Wood. Prior wants a special prosecutor to litigate the matter, sequestration of witnesses, an order preventing public statements from the prosecution on the matter and the court to deny any request by the state to seal documents or hearings related to this matter.

The full filing is 22 pages long and I’ve linked it below. 

FULL MOTION: coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR22211623/Motion%20for%20Discovery%20Concerning%20Events.pdf

It would be very interesting if McConkie didn’t immediately shut her up and she shared details.  He says iirc he informed her he couldn’t practice in Idaho and either gave her a referral or offered to.

Prior is pushing a religious bias angle now it appears…my guess is he believes that Saints will tend to be more negative because of being offended by the misuse of their faith and embarrassed by or feel awkward about being connected to such a twisted tragedy, especially now it is public CD has been excommunicated (I know that it is not the official term now, but given the circumstances it is the much more satisfying one for this case).  I agree with that view.  I have read a number of nonmembers worried that CD will get a lighter treatment from Saints as we tend to be more comfortable with the idea of visions, end times concerns, and personal revelation…but my view is we are more likely to be ticked at the abusive use of our beliefs by the two to justify them hurting others and trying to avoid responsibility.  Saints, IMO, may be heavy into the beliefs of forgiveness and at times aren’t great at balancing needs of victims with a desire to give repentance a chance, but I think they went too far and more Saints are disgusted than are making allowances thinking they were misguided, but well intentioned, even at the beginning.

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2021/11/chad-daybells-attorney-wants-a-non-lds-special-prosecutor-following-alleged-idhw-incident-with-lori-daybell/

Quote

In documents filed Friday, John Prior, Chad’s attorney, requests an evidentiary hearing into the issue and is requesting a special prosecutor who is not affiliated with the case or a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints…

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by Calm

[Calm]

From Lam’s FB:

Quote

DAYBELL HEARINGS: In the wake of these filed motions, hearings for Chad Daybell are scheduled for 12/2 at 9AM. The scheduling conference is specifically for Daybell’s murder trial which was initially going to start today (11/8) before being continued.

 

[katherine the great]

Fyi: Dateline NBC has yet another segment on the case tonight. 
 

Doomsday files

[Tacenda]

12 hours ago, katherine the great said:

Fyi: Dateline NBC has yet another segment on the case tonight. 
 

Doomsday files

I was ready for a repeat and maybe some giblets, but I was quite impressed with what they fit in a 2 hour show with commercials. Well done Dateline! And now more than ever I fear for Melani's children, hope she wakes up and doesn't hurt them in any way.

[katherine the great]

12 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I was ready for a repeat and maybe some giblets, but I was quite impressed with what they fit in a 2 hour show with commercials. Well done Dateline! And now more than ever I fear for Melani's children, hope she wakes up and doesn't hurt them in any way.

I don’t know anything about her situation now but she didn’t waste any time getting pregnant by her second husband so maybe her first family is not that big of a priority for her now. From everything I’ve read and seen, she does seem extremely unstable.

[Calm]

Websleuths has a person doing a highlight series of posts if anyone does are to read it.  Starts here:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/id-joshua-vallow-7-tylee-ryan-16-tammy-daybell-49-charles-vallow-62-oct-2019-arrests-64.599826/page-4#post-17270807

Three tidbits stood out for me from their notes…Charles’ fingerprints were not on the bat it is claimed he hit Alex with to justify the shooting.  I may have read this, but it didn’t sticky .

Before JJ was killed, LVD texted Alex about eggs, a street name for Xanax and he said he could get her some. The last sighting of JJ was Alex carrying JJ back from his townhome asleep in his arms, there have been suggestions he was drugged. However, iirc the one time babysitter said LVD told her that sometimes she gave JJ his medication earlier so he would go to sleep, so she might claim she just gave it to him on a regular basis when she needed to have him quiet down. 
 

The most interesting was this from the main local reporter in Idaho quoted from  websleuths…

Nate Eaton: Chad won't plea. He'll take this all the way. Chad will point finger at Lori and Alex

Me:  I don’t think he has much to lose by taking it all the way.  He is highly unlikely to be executed as there have only been three executions since 1976, though two of them were ten years ago.  He is getting attention while all this goes on. Anything of value to him requires people think he is this spiritual wonder. I don’t see much of a following if he admits to killing his wife and helping kill the kids.  He will lose the support of his family if he confesses or at least the worship, so he will be alone when he gets out or if they take pity on him, he won’t be the patriarch or prophet to his family anymore, but a pity case.

 I don’t see him as anything but someone who needs to be taken care of, not the stoic independent type. He needs worshippers and servants.  I can see him believing he can keep at least part of his following if he insists he has been set up, so he can still write about his visions, etc as a prophet if stuck in jail. That attention  is, I am guessing, more important to him than freedom.

And he may believe his own crap to the point of thinking that no one will actually convict him, this is a test, or something like that. If he has been able to get away with stuff all his life by pulling the visionary card and lying, he may assume it will happen again. 

Edited November 13, 2021 by Calm

[grapevine]

Forty eight hours interview a few weeks ago.  Children of one parent murdered by another I wonder if denial is something they do,  Mom or Dad wouldn’t do that.  Difficult trial for them to go through.

 

Of course gravedigger he wouldn’t be dumb enough to bury them in the backyard.  Plenty of spaces around there.  A two year old went missing a few years ago in a small town of Leadore a couple hours north.  No one knows what happened there.  Denial on there part.

 

Then says he never slept with Lori while there Mom was alive.  Any case a married man going with a woman like that committed Adultery in his heart.  Same sin even if he didn’t do the act yet.  Murdered her so it wouldn’t technically be Adultery.  
 

Affairs were you leave a marriage for someone else are still affairs even if you didn’t do the act before the divorce or while married to someone else.  Had Tammy lived likely would be divorced.

 

Membership councils are kept private.  May announce them if there is reason to let church members  know.  Even then don’t announce what went on there.  Wether he gets death penalty and will spend 23 hours in 8 by 14 space in Kuna Idaho or life in prison will spend rest of life in maximum security prison.  Multiple murders in Idaho get best medium security prison regardless of in prison behavior.  Sad for people that lost life, him for his choices and many family members who suffer do to the choices he made.

 

His brother Matt distanced himself from them and had minimal contact do to his fringe beliefs several years ago.

[Calm]

46 minutes ago, grapevine said:

 Difficult trial for them to go through.

Destroyed their world. Part of me is hoping that given the strong denial a couple of the kids have shown that all feel that way and hopefully all will wake up to the reality together so they at least have each other. 
 

I also wonder maybe it would be better for them to believe there is a conspiracy against him. Is it worst think your father is in jail unjustly and struggle to get him out but get to believe your family life was what you thought it was or to believe he deserves to be there and have to rewrite your childhood, etc. And which is better for living in the world and dealing with the hate people direct at you because they hate him. 

In the long run, knowing the truth is best Imo…(obviously I believe him being a murderer or involved is the truth).  There is tremendous pain, but seems more likely to come up with a way to move past it.

His children and grandchildren are such unfortunate victims.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Calm

[katherine the great]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

I also wonder maybe it would be better for them to believe there is a conspiracy against him.

With all the communication between C and L coming out of the cloud, I don’t see any way they could hold onto that delusion. 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, katherine the great said:

With all the communication between C and L coming out of the cloud, I don’t see any way they could hold onto that delusion. 

I agree, but if their dad claims it is a lie, a creation by law enforcement or others, they could ignore it as not his stuff. 

[katherine the great]

6 hours ago, Calm said:

I agree, but if their dad claims it is a lie, a creation by law enforcement or others, they could ignore it as not his stuff. 

I guess people believe what they need to believe. Did you see the news clip of the older daughter (Emma?) making faces behind the field reporter in a live news report? I would get annoyed with reporters in front of my house but for such a serious case, it was incredibly immature and bizarre.

[Calm]

Mark Means has subpoenaed Daybell’s stake President, for anything involved in Daybell’s membership withdrawal case. Daybell was not there as he was arrested and iirc wasn’t even  aware of it as the mail was delayed.  
 

I can see the Church refusing to participate in the fishing expedition. He is demanding names of anyone who participated, etc, so confidential info imo. 

https://m.facebook.com/100044424966565/posts/458053982352097/

Edited November 17, 2021 by Calm

[Calm]

Bishops out there, I have a question. Someone is claiming that David? McConkie that answered the hotline call of LVD’s is a bishop and she may have confessed to him. 
 

Would confessing to a bishop not your own fall under confidentiality rules for the Church?  Just asking. Not saying it happened in this case, my guess is no one wants to be connected with it and he would have shut her down quickly.  McConkie issued a statement he only referred her to Idaho lawyers. 
 

Lawyers out there, are membership removal councils considered under clergy confidentiality laws or because more than one person, not confidential?

Edited November 17, 2021 by Calm

[grapevine]

How do letters like that get to attorneys.  Leaders go out of the way to keep details confidential.  May announce membership council and result bare well known or it effects community.  Did Chad give that letter to the Stake President.  Because what goes on in a membership council is confidential.  Even when results need to be announced they keep the proceedings confidential.

 

May let Elders Quorum presidency members know so they don’t humiliate them when asked to give prayer.  But unless the person says anything they try to keep results as confidential as possible.  Of course  withdrawal is mandatory for murder, and he was seeing Lori while wife was alive,  Apostasy will get your membership withdrawn.  May announce e to protect church members.

 

But I am sure the church tries to keep information like that confidential to avoid any undo embarrassment and for those that can repent help them facilitate it so there membership can be restored after thorough and proper repentance. 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, grapevine said:

 

How do letters like that get to attorneys.

 

Haven’t read it yet, but if they were in CD or LVD’s possession at anytime, most likely it came from one of them or CD’s children.  I can see anything to do with the Church being passed on to the defense attorneys because of a belief that if the Church is embarrassed they will step in to make it go away. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Calm