phaedrus ut Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 This statistic comes from the Trevor Project national survey of LGBTQ youth. With over 34,000 respondents, it is the largest survey of LGBTQ youth mental health ever conducted. The number increases to 57% for transgender and nonbinary youth who have undergone conversion therapy. Phaedrus //I started a new thread because for the first time in 15 years I've been locked out of a topic. Please see my post history to confirm for my flagrant rule breaking. 3
The Nehor Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 I have been kicked out of many topics. I like to think it means we are interesting. I am also going to go out on a limb here and say that I think sexual identity conversion therapy is pseudoscience like chiropractics and bog witchery. 3
bluebell Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Does it have any statistics on those youth who self determine to live a heterosexual lifestyle rather than having someone force them? Does it have any statistics on youth who attend therapy with the goal of living a heterosexual lifestyle as opposed to becoming heterosexual? 3
Robert F. Smith Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 2 hours ago, phaedrus ut said: This statistic comes from the Trevor Project national survey of LGBTQ youth. With over 34,000 respondents, it is the largest survey of LGBTQ youth mental health ever conducted. The number increases to 57% for transgender and nonbinary youth who have undergone conversion therapy. ..................... Any stats on the percentage of youth who are suicidal after undergoing Sex reassignment surgery (SRS) -- aka gender reassignment surgery (GRS)? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7541679/Hundreds-youths-gender-surgery-wish-hadnt-says-head-advocacy-network.html , and see 2
lostindc Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Church HQ knows the research, not sure why they would risk more suicides. Seems like the program isn't worth the squeeze. 1
Bob Crockett Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, phaedrus ut said: This statistic comes from the Trevor Project national survey of LGBTQ youth. With over 34,000 respondents, it is the largest survey of LGBTQ youth mental health ever conducted. The number increases to 57% for transgender and nonbinary youth who have undergone conversion therapy. This isn't adjusted for suicides of LGBTQ youth generally. If there is no statistical difference between LGBTQ youth generally and those who have undergone conversion therapy, then the statistic you cite is meaningless. It is now meaningless. Edited October 17, 2019 by Bob Crockett 1
Robert F. Smith Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, lostindc said: Church HQ knows the research, not sure why they would risk more suicides. Seems like the program isn't worth the squeeze. As has been pointed out, there may be far more at stake here than just the research cited. It may be tat the proposals based on these stats are themselves faulty or misguided. By the way, "Church HQ" doesn't know anything. Some people at Church HQ may have some ideas on this issue. Whoever such people may be, they may have concerns which are not obvious to everyone reading about this.
MustardSeed Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, The Nehor said: I have been kicked out of many topics. I like to think it means we are interesting. I am also going to go out on a limb here and say that I think sexual identity conversion therapy is pseudoscience like chiropractics and bog witchery. Poppycock. My chiropractor made me feel like a rockstar! 1
lostindc Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: As has been pointed out, there may be far more at stake here than just the research cited. It may be tat the proposals based on these stats are themselves faulty or misguided. By the way, "Church HQ" doesn't know anything. Some people at Church HQ may have some ideas on this issue. Whoever such people may be, they may have concerns which are not obvious to everyone reading about this. So you’re claiming that church hq isn’t aware of the suicide epidemic with lgbt youth? Really, there’s no smoothing this over. It’s a losing battle. Iff subject, but I visit this board from time to time and most posters here are wonderful, and it’s alarming to see how low the faith is in Mormonism. There’s no moxy here anymore. The Church is dying.
Jake Starkey Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) The LDS Church is anything but dying. It is reacting to the times, though, indeed. Suggestions that the figure of 42% of LGB youth in conversion therapy attempt suicide is somehow insignificant or irrelevant is of no worth in this discussion. From the Trevor Report above: Suicide is the 2nd leading cause of death among young people ages 10 to 24.1 LGB youth seriously contemplate suicide at almost three times the rate of heterosexual youth.2 LGB youth are almost five times as likely to have attempted suicide compared to heterosexual youth.2 Of all the suicide attempts made by youth, LGB youth suicide attempts were almost five times as likely to require medical treatment than those of heterosexual youth.2 Suicide attempts by LGB youth and questioning youth are 4 to 6 times more likely to result in injury, poisoning, or overdose that requires treatment from a doctor or nurse, compared to their straight peers.2 In a national study, 40% of transgender adults reported having made a suicide attempt. 92% of these individuals reported having attempted suicide before the age of 25.3 LGB youth who come from highly rejecting families are 8.4 times as likely to have attempted suicide as LGB peers who reported no or low levels of family rejection.4 1 out of 6 students nationwide (grades 9–12) seriously considered suicide in the past year. [5] Each episode of LGBT victimization, such as physical or verbal harassment or abuse, increases the likelihood of self-harming behavior by 2.5 times on average.6 Edited October 17, 2019 by Jake Starkey
Robert F. Smith Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 28 minutes ago, lostindc said: So you’re claiming that church hq isn’t aware of the suicide epidemic with lgbt youth? Any church HQ is a bldg, not a human, and buildings are not aware of anything. People have ideas, not churches. It is a common mistake to attribute human qualities to things -- a fallacy. 28 minutes ago, lostindc said: Really, there’s no smoothing this over. It’s a losing battle. Iff subject, but I visit this board from time to time and most posters here are wonderful, and it’s alarming to see how low the faith is in Mormonism. There’s no moxy here anymore. The Church is dying. That's a pretty extreme statement, with no backing. So your impression is that, if Mormons on this board are not hard core yokels, that means that they have lost faith? You should appreciate civil and polite Mormons. 1
Calm Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 54 minutes ago, lostindc said: Church HQ knows the research, not sure why they would risk more suicides. Seems like the program isn't worth the squeeze. Meaning what? Are you thinking the Church supports conversion therapy?
Robert F. Smith Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, Jake Starkey said: ................................. Suggestions that the figure of 42% of LGB youth in conversion therapy attempt suicide is somehow insignificant or irrelevant is of no worth in this discussion................................ One other question we should have about this report is: Was it a scientific sampling of the population, or simply an open invitation to respond if you want to? Scientific sampling has value, the other not so much.
Jake Starkey Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Opening para: "This is our first wide-ranging report from a cross-sectional national survey of LGBTQ youth across the United States. With over 34,000 respondents, it is the largest survey of LGBTQ youth mental health ever conducted and provides a critical understanding of the experiences impacting their lives." https://www.thetrevorproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/The-Trevor-Project-National-Survey-Results-2019.pdf 1
The Nehor Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 50 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: Poppycock. My chiropractor made me feel like a rockstar! So does my masseuse but that does not make it medicine. Seriously though, read up on the “science” of chiropractics. 1
lostindc Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 14 minutes ago, Calm said: Meaning what? Are you thinking the Church supports conversion therapy? Are they still conducting any sort of conversion therapy at BYU? Has the Church denounced conversion therapy? I really don't know what the current status is for the questions above.
lostindc Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 15 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: Any church HQ is a bldg, not a human, and buildings are not aware of anything. People have ideas, not churches. It is a common mistake to attribute human qualities to things -- a fallacy. That's a pretty extreme statement, with no backing. So your impression is that, if Mormons on this board are not hard core yokels, that means that they have lost faith? You should appreciate civil and polite Mormons. Compare the board now to the archived posts from a decade ago. Compare the approach of apologetics now to then... Compare the stats of those quitting now to then... I see no moxy anymore.
Calm Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 39 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: Poppycock. My chiropractor made me feel like a rockstar! Why it can be helpful is not likely why they claim it helps though (subluxation). I tried it over the years because of not being able to find relief through traditional medicine (between bad posture, falling out of the crib a couple of times when I was a wee adventurous climber, and a car accident with untreated whiplash when I was 13 and probably my sleep disorder interfering with healing, I don't remember a day in my life I didn't have a headache). I have found massages gave much more relief and the relief lasted longer than walking to my car. Plus fewer backfires where migraines or other pain was triggered. If there is help, it is probably along the lines of what massages can do...so why not get the massage? Given the potential risk when the neck is involved, I now stick completely with massages (shop for a good one). https://www.painscience.com/articles/spinal-manipulation.php Quote In 2012, a large, credible Cochrane review of SMT for acute low back pain was published.1 Its conclusions were resoundingly negative and disappointing. In 2017, these conclusions were echoed by an independent but very similar review in Journal of the American Medical Association.2 Although weirdly touted by SMT proponents as a positive study, it’s really not: they are just trying to make lemonade out of scientific lemons. It clearly damns SMT with faint praise, confirming that the benefits are minor at best... Rubinstein et al concluded that “SMT is no more effective in participants with acute low-back pain” than shams and placebos.3 Paige et al reported trivial benefits only, just one point on a 10-scale improvement at best,4 which is about the same as you’re going to get from Advil. And it gets worse! They also identified lots of treatment backfires — minor ones, but who wants to spend the time and money on spinal adjustment to get more pain?5 If you are going to get spinal manipulation done, probably best to go to physical therapists who have a wider range of treatment options so they know when it is appropriate or not. Quote In rare cases involving joint adhesions, mechanical “locking” and loss of mobility, appropriate manipulation has clear value — which is primarily why physical therapists perform spinal manipulation. 1
pogi Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, lostindc said: Compare the board now to the archived posts from a decade ago. Compare the approach of apologetics now to then... Compare the stats of those quitting now to then... I see no moxy anymore. Could these changes not be seen as a maturation? Sure we are experiencing some losses, but overall I think we have a more mature faith.
Calm Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, lostindc said: Are they still conducting any sort of conversion therapy at BYU? Has the Church denounced conversion therapy? I really don't know what the current status is for the questions above. They haven't done conversion therapy (aversion therapy) research at BYU iirc since the 1970s (other thread had this info so corrected myself) when it was considered standard treatment. I can't say how much or long, if any were doing it, any counselors were attempting conversion therapies. The few I know well enough never did. If you read the other thread that has the Church statement on the latest bill, it denounces conversion therapy and aversion therapy that uses electrical shock or vomiting. Edited October 17, 2019 by Calm
Calm Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Bob Crockett said: This isn't adjusted for suicides of LGBTQ youth generally. If there is no statistical difference between LGBTQ youth generally and those who have undergone conversion therapy, then the statistic you cite is meaningless. It is now meaningless. I believe the graph shows the study compared the rate of those who didn't have the two experiences measured with those that did, 8% vs 23% for those who said they experienced attempts to change orientation or identity and 17% to 42% for conversion therapy. I need to read the study itself though to figure out why the significant different in the did not experience category (8 vs 14). The footnote explaining what they asked two separate questions (as some who underwent what the researchers considered conversion therapy might not call it that) does make me concerned that the teens they questioned might not have understood what actual conversion therapy is, possibly being too broad or too narrow. It would have been better imo if they had specified types of treatment in detail rather than just a label. Perhaps they did this as well. This is not to suggest the study is invalid or the stats would be less, just that it could be more accurate and helpful imo. I am not the least bit surprised that rates were higher given the descriptions I have heard of some conversion therapy treatments and the usually unrealistic goal of complete removal of same sex feelings, etc. replaced with opposite sex feelings, etc.
Calm Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, lostindc said: There’s no moxy here anymore Define moxy please (preferably with description of behaviours you are thinking of) so I can understand what you missing. 1
Calm Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 5 hours ago, phaedrus ut said: The number increases to 57% for transgender and nonbinary youth who have undergone conversion therapy. Since they are at greater risk in general, this makes sense.
Calm Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) Phaedrus or someone else, could you put up the image for the second page like you did the first, I can't get it to work. Bob, until that happens, you can go to page 2 in the report for the general stats I can get this much: Quote Over 18% of LGBTQ respondents attempted suicide in the past twelve months 29% of transgender and non-binary youth respondents have attempted suicide Edited October 17, 2019 by Calm
Calm Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) The study shows that those who experienced physical harm and discrimination were more likely to attempt suicide. This may have contributed to higher numbers for conversion therapy. It would have been useful imo to measure those who experienced physical harm or discrimination with those who experienced conversion therapy (though it didn't measure timing so we couldn't know if prior to the therapy or not) to see if at higher risk going in. (Not that this excuses---for those who read any criticism of the report as support for conversion therapy---conversion therapy from being pseudoscience or somehow makes it acceptable, just think it would be useful knowledge to better pinpoint issues; in fact, it would strengthen a report imo by allowing for less wiggle room) Edited October 17, 2019 by Calm
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