2BizE Posted June 20, 2019 Posted June 20, 2019 More than anything, this shows BYUPD is not capable of sharing public information if the information is negative toward the church. I have no confidence in the police force because of this.
Popular Post Amulek Posted June 20, 2019 Popular Post Posted June 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, 2BizE said: More than anything, this shows BYUPD is not capable of sharing public information if the information is negative toward the church. I have no confidence in the police force because of this. I don't think you understand what constitutes "public information." Evidence obtained by law enforcement during the course of a criminal investigation is not generally considered to be part of the public record. If you are a victim or have some other qualified justification for accessing the evidence, access will be granted, but police departments are under no obligation to just hand over every little bit of sensitive information they discover during the course of their investigations to the general public. This is pretty much how all law enforcement agencies in the US handle things. If this lawsuit were taking place in California, the LAPD would be doing the exact same thing, so please drop this whole 'BYUPD is in the church's pocket' nonsense. 7
ALarson Posted June 22, 2019 Posted June 22, 2019 The entire video is back up. Here's a link to it (on KUTV): https://kutv.com/news/local/former-mtc-president-says-church-leaders-knew-of-sexual-indiscretions-with-missionaries?jwsource=cl And on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psoZPovb_G8&feature=youtu.be 1
Tacenda Posted June 22, 2019 Posted June 22, 2019 4 hours ago, ALarson said: The entire video is back up. Here's a link to it (on KUTV): https://kutv.com/news/local/former-mtc-president-says-church-leaders-knew-of-sexual-indiscretions-with-missionaries?jwsource=cl And on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psoZPovb_G8&feature=youtu.be Thanks ALarsen for providing the full video. My take on it now having listened intently, kind of hard to hear and had to repeat it, is that I don't think Bishop has anything beyond old age forgetfulness. He remembers most of what he remembered with McKenna, that was what struck me, and he didn't veer off from that at all, no new stuff really or any big holes from the interview with McKenna. Now with McKenna's credibility having gone to pot, it will be difficult to know what exactly she said that is true. If they don't know for sure if it's a basement work room or off the main level wing, I wish Bishop could go there and maybe something spark his memory. But I doubt that will happen. Now that McKenna is nearing the expiration or maybe already has on getting new legal representation, I wonder if this public video will incriminate the church leaders as to why after the confessions they allowed him to serve in the capacity he did. Such as mission president and working with sister missionaries. But my bet is, is that nothing will happen to the church nor Bishop. IMO, he may have suffered enough, on the outside, I don't know that prison is the answer. And now his family or grandchildren will have a different opinion of him, that's harsh. He probably lost the fiance I'm thinking as well. But he deserves what he gets in that aspect. At mark 48:00 he talks about the natural man. I'm tired of that bulls*** excuse. I know plenty of natural men that don't do those things. Just as I tire of the some of the early church leaders or leader that thought polygamy would stop men from going to prostitutes, or that monagamy isn't possible. I know many men that monogamy is perfectly doable.
Calm Posted June 22, 2019 Posted June 22, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Tacenda said: mark 48:00 he talks about the natural man. I'm tired of that bulls*** excuse It translates for me to "I just can't control myself" which in many cases is really "I just don't want to control myself" and in cases where control is really lacking, such as addiction, then choices can be made in structuring one's world to avoid those things one has little ability to resist***, but I know some read it as "I was born that way". (A strong sexual drive pushes them to adultery, for example). My sleep med sets off cravings and impedes my ability to say no, so if I was wise, I would remove all the unhealthy stuff from my home so if I binge, at least it would be on high fiber or low calories, etc. (Since other people in the home buy junk food, I haven't been able to make that work.) For those who have drug issues, not having it in their home, avoiding places and people who trigger the craving is a way to control the natural man before they get into a situation where they are confronted with a choice that isn't really a choice. For those who have a hard time resisting in sexual situations, don't be so stupid as to think "I am doing this for my marriage". Bishop made stupid choices when he had control to allow his "natural man" to take front and center position. Edited June 22, 2019 by Calm
Calm Posted June 22, 2019 Posted June 22, 2019 Not complete btw...some might be paraphrase if I didn't doubkecheck... He just got out of bed. The police detective says "you were expecting us" So sounds like an appt, but Bishop says he never knows what to do. Might be sign of a memory issue. (Since some seem to take issue with me suggesting dementia may explain the irrationality that shows up at times in Bishop's comments, I will just label things that make me wonder as memory issues as that can cover both old age memory and dementia). he asks them to turn on the light talks about hospital last week, heart Know why we are here? I have no idea. I have an idea, you just tell me. Do I need an attorney? Up to you....you had a visitor a couple of days ago. And her name, what? She goes by.... I knew her. ----- Did you meet with her? [pretty sure he means a few days ago, not back in 84, but Bishop responds for 84] I was in the MTC, she was a missionary there.....My memory isn't as good.... Cant remember how it started...she had problems...so she came in to talk about that... Were you aware of the abuse before she got there? No, she came in, some way that was the foundation of her struggles with life. [so he is saying Denson came to him, not he sought her out, contrary to Denson's claim] what relationship.. Started off counseling, trying to help her, I think... Escalate from there?... Well, um, I really don't know...she...just one item after another....come in...that kind of thing. how many times meet with her [no answer] meet with her one on one? Yes So relationship...it got physical? Yes. And can you tell me about that? Not the same what she remembers and I remember is different. Two sides to stories... Bishop goes into how he hasn't long and will be telling the truth as he will be meeting maker soon. Just be honest. Have you talk to people before? Ecclesiastical, first time law enforcement.... She was very street smart...was struggling with baby out of wedlock.... One occasion she had gone over to the temple in a wedding dress, fun thing doing with other missionaries...roleplaying getting married on temple grounds. Went over to temple, brought her back, told her inappropriate. Keeps saying she came in rather than he sent for her. She told him about an "escapade"...had a checkered life, she couldn't remember this??? Just let me, trying to bring it up now. She couldn't remember this. She had gone to church somewhere, and got breast enhancement, and I know that is true. [so he is positive that Denson had prior enhancement] What point did you get involved with her? Marital life wasn't going well....secondary office to get quiet... The "smelly place, near the cafeteria....well, wasn't too smelly" comment where he immediately corrects what comes across as a memory, but apparently isn't. Cant remember how she got there, talked about the augmentation...quoted elsewhere. Coukd she have exaggerated because of her struggles with life? Probably, don't want to blame that, want to be responsible. Anyway, she exposed herself that way and I saw her breasts. I don't remember touching her, I might have, I don't remember anymore than that. This is the part she doesn't remember. She accused me of trying to rape her. [emphatic] I don't have any recollections of anything like that. She said I tore her blouse. That didn't happen in my mind. What kind of physical contact happened in that room that you remember? I told you all of that, I don't remember kissing, hugging, etc. anything like that. She has a different story on that....he said, she said. Point I am making is I shouldn't have even been in that room. She intrigued me because she was experienced and I could talk to her about my lack of fulfillment in my life. Not trying to blame my wife... ---that is about 16 minutes, taking break
Exiled Posted June 22, 2019 Posted June 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Calm said: Not complete btw...some might be paraphrase if I didn't doubkecheck... He just got out of bed. The police detective says "you were expecting us" So sounds like an appt, but Bishop says he never knows what to do. Might be sign of a memory issue. (Since some seem to take issue with me suggesting dementia may explain the irrationality that shows up at times in Bishop's comments, I will just label things that make me wonder as memory issues as that can cover both old age memory and dementia). he asks them to turn on the light talks about hospital last week, heart Know why we are here? I have no idea. I have an idea, you just tell me. Do I need an attorney? Up to you....you had a visitor a couple of days ago. And her name, what? She goes by.... I knew her. ----- Did you meet with her? [pretty sure he means a few days ago, not back in 84, but Bishop responds for 84] I was in the MTC, she was a missionary there.....My memory isn't as good.... Cant remember how it started...she had problems...so she came in to talk about that... Were you aware of the abuse before she got there? No, she came in, some way that was the foundation of her struggles with life. [so he is saying Denson came to him, not he sought her out, contrary to Denson's claim] what relationship.. Started off counseling, trying to help her, I think... Escalate from there?... Well, um, I really don't know...she...just one item after another....come in...that kind of thing. how many times meet with her [no answer] meet with her one on one? Yes So relationship...it got physical? Yes. And can you tell me about that? Not the same what she remembers and I remember is different. Two sides to stories... Bishop goes into how he hasn't long and will be telling the truth as he will be meeting maker soon. Just be honest. Have you talk to people before? Ecclesiastical, first time law enforcement.... She was very street smart...was struggling with baby out of wedlock.... One occasion she had gone over to the temple in a wedding dress, fun thing doing with other missionaries...roleplaying getting married on temple grounds. Went over to temple, brought her back, told her inappropriate. Keeps saying she came in rather than he sent for her. She told him about an "escapade"...had a checkered life, she couldn't remember this??? Just let me, trying to bring it up now. She couldn't remember this. She had gone to church somewhere, and got breast enhancement, and I know that is true. [so he is positive that Denson had prior enhancement] What point did you get involved with her? Marital life wasn't going well....secondary office to get quiet... The "smelly place, near the cafeteria....well, wasn't too smelly" comment where he immediately corrects what comes across as a memory, but apparently isn't. Cant remember how she got there, talked about the augmentation...quoted elsewhere. Coukd she have exaggerated because of her struggles with life? Probably, don't want to blame that, want to be responsible. Anyway, she exposed herself that way and I saw her breasts. I don't remember touching her, I might have, I don't remember anymore than that. This is the part she doesn't remember. She accused me of trying to rape her. [emphatic] I don't have any recollections of anything like that. She said I tore her blouse. That didn't happen in my mind. What kind of physical contact happened in that room that you remember? I told you all of that, I don't remember kissing, hugging, etc. anything like that. She has a different story on that....he said, she said. Point I am making is I shouldn't have even been in that room. She intrigued me because she was experienced and I could talk to her about my lack of fulfillment in my life. Not trying to blame my wife... ---that is about 16 minutes, taking break Why are you pushing the dementia narrative? The case looks like it will be over soon with Denson not having found an attorney who wants to step into the mess. She hasn't answered discovery and that can be cause to strike her complaint, ending the case. Also, her credibility is very suspect at this point. So, the parts where it is a he said, she said should fall into the church's favor. Nevertheless, Bishop says he confessed to church leaders and kept his position. Is this why you want to push dementia?
webbles Posted June 22, 2019 Posted June 22, 2019 12 minutes ago, Exiled said: Why are you pushing the dementia narrative? The case looks like it will be over soon with Denson not having found an attorney who wants to step into the mess. She hasn't answered discovery and that can be cause to strike her complaint, ending the case. Also, her credibility is very suspect at this point. So, the parts where it is a he said, she said should fall into the church's favor. Nevertheless, Bishop says he confessed to church leaders and kept his position. Is this why you want to push dementia? But the question is "what did he confess to"? It sounds like he just confessed to seeing a sister missionary's bare breasts and touching a sister missionary's buttocks. He could have easily downplayed that so that his bishop thought they were accidents or were caused by the sister missionaries. From hearing Bishop speak, it sounds very much like he doesn't really confess to things. He just makes up reasons on why he is a bad person ("natural man") and blames others (such as the victims and his wives) on why these things happen to him. I don't trust that Bishop actually confessed enough details to his bishop that would have triggered his release or even caused the bishop to want to escalate the issue. 1
Calm Posted June 22, 2019 Posted June 22, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Exiled said: Why are you pushing the dementia narrative? The case looks like it will be over soon with Denson not having found an attorney who wants to step into the mess. She hasn't answered discovery and that can be cause to strike her complaint, ending the case. Also, her credibility is very suspect at this point. So, the parts where it is a he said, she said should fall into the church's favor. Nevertheless, Bishop says he confessed to church leaders and kept his position. Is this why you want to push dementia? I will not answer yet again why I mention dementia. If you didn't get it yet, me repeating myself won't help. Go back and reread my posts if you want to try and understand my point of view. Edited June 22, 2019 by Calm 3
Exiled Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Calm said: I will not answer yet again why I mention dementia. If you didn't get it yet, me repeating myself won't help. Go back and reread my posts if you want to try and understand my point of view. Of course.
Exiled Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 2 hours ago, webbles said: But the question is "what did he confess to"? It sounds like he just confessed to seeing a sister missionary's bare breasts and touching a sister missionary's buttocks. He could have easily downplayed that so that his bishop thought they were accidents or were caused by the sister missionaries. From hearing Bishop speak, it sounds very much like he doesn't really confess to things. He just makes up reasons on why he is a bad person ("natural man") and blames others (such as the victims and his wives) on why these things happen to him. I don't trust that Bishop actually confessed enough details to his bishop that would have triggered his release or even caused the bishop to want to escalate the issue. I know, no true leader would do such a thing as alleged by Ms. Denson, blah, blah, blah, therefore I don't believe it .... You know, you are still a good person and the church has some positives, regardless of whether or not Mr. Bishop is guilty of whatever. Ted Bundy was baptized and no one in their right mind would impute his parade of pure evil on the church. Bishop was a leader but so was E. Carrington back in the day. So what? We are supposedly guilty of our own sins and not church leaders' transgressions.
Calm Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Exiled said: I know, no true leader would do such a thing as alleged by Ms. Denson, blah, blah, blah, therefore I don't believe it .... Please quote where webbles stated or implied this. 2
Calm Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 (edited) Starting at 16 minutes... He seems to be following the conversation better now, if he was sleeping before he answered the door, maybe it took this long to wake up. He finishes appropriately what the detective asks...how many times had he met with her before this.... break for a minute or two. Will come back to this post later for rest of the 15 minutes add-on: life intruded and the smac posted transcript, yay! Edited June 24, 2019 by Calm
webbles Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Exiled said: I know, no true leader would do such a thing as alleged by Ms. Denson, blah, blah, blah, therefore I don't believe it .... You know, you are still a good person and the church has some positives, regardless of whether or not Mr. Bishop is guilty of whatever. Ted Bundy was baptized and no one in their right mind would impute his parade of pure evil on the church. Bishop was a leader but so was E. Carrington back in the day. So what? We are supposedly guilty of our own sins and not church leaders' transgressions. I don't know how you got that impression from what I wrote. I actually do believe that Bishop did bad things. 4
smac97 Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 Here's a partial transcript of the intervew PARTIAL TRANSCRIPT OF BYU PD INTERVIEW OF JOSEPH BISHOP ON DECEMBER 5, 2017 --Bishop: There’s my friends. --BYUPD: How are you doing? --BYPD: How are you doing today? --Bishop: How are you? Come on in. --BYUPD: All right, thanks. --Bishop: Sorry, I just got out of bed. --BYUPD: No, you’re good. --BYUPD: I’m Sergeant Nelson, I’m with the BYU Police Department. This is Detective Long. --Bishop: Come and sit down. --BYUPD: Thanks. You’re expecting us, I bet? Were you? --Bishop: I never know what to do. --BYUPD: All right. [Muffled] --Bishop: Let me turn on a light. --BYUPD: Okay, thank you. --Bishop: Do you want to, me out there and you here, or… --BYUPD: Um, either way, whatever you’re comfortable with. Do you mind if I take my jacket off? --Bishop: Please. [Crosstalk] --Bishop: Just got out of the hospital a little while ago. --BYUPD: Oh? How long ago was that? --Bishop: Oh, it was last week. It’s my heart, so it’s, it takes time. --BYUPD: All right. Yes, that is not good. So you probably know why we’re here, right? --Bishop: Pardon me? --BYUPD: I said do you know why we’re here? --Bishop: I have no idea. I have an idea, but you just tell me. --BYUPD: All right. --Bishop: Do I need an attorney? --BYUPD: Well, you know, that’s totally up to you. I can’t advise you either way, but I think there’s some things that need to be, that you probably ought to talk to us about. You had a visitor a couple days ago. --Bishop: And her name, what? --BYUPD: She goes by [Deleted]. --Bishop: I know her. --BYUPD: So she called us, and told us her side of what had happened. So we’re here to get your side of it. So did you meet with her? --Bishop: Yes. I knew [Deleted]. I was in the MTC, she was a missionary there. --BYUPD: Okay. When were you at the MTC? --Bishop: My memory isn’t as good as it was. I’m 85, nearly 86. But it seems like ‘83 to ‘86. --BYUPD: ‘83 to ‘86. And what was your capacity there? --Bishop: I was president. --BYUPD: So you were president of the MTC? --Bishop: Mm-hmm [Affirmative]. --BYUPD: Kay. So how did you know [Deleted]? --Bishop: She was, I can’t remember how it started, but she was a, she had had some problems. Seems like it was her father or stepfather had abused her. And at that time, so she came in to talk about that. I think that’s how I met her. --BYUPD: Okay. So were you aware of that abuse before she got there? Or… --Bishop: Pardon me? --BYUPD: Were you aware of the abuse before she got there? Or was it when she got there she had… --Bishop: No. She came in. --BYUPD: Oh, okay. --Bishop: In some way that was the foundation of her struggles with life. --BYUPD: Oh, gotcha. Okay. So what was your relationship? How’d that go? --Bishop: Well, it started off counseling, trying to help her, type thing. She seemed, well that’s about it. --BYUPD: Okay. So did things escalate from there? --Bishop: I think that’s a good way of putting it. --BYUPD: Okay. How did it escalate? --Bishop: Well, I really don’t know. It just, it just, she, just one item after another would come in, and that kind of thing. --BYUPD: So how many times did you meet with her? Did you meet with her like one on one? Or how did, so there was times when you were alone with her? --Bishop: Yes. --BYUPD: Okay. So it sounds like that relationship, that friendship, whatever it was, it got physical? --Bishop: Yes. --BYUPD: Okay. And how did that, can you tell me about that? --Bishop: What I remember of it, and what she remembers of it, is not the same. --BYUPD: Oh, you know, there’s always two sides. That’s why we’re here, so. --Bishop: I want to be honest, because my position is I’m not, I’ve got a heart condition. 85. I’m not going to be around much longer. --BYUPD: Sure. --Bishop: So what I say here needs to be, well it needs to be anyway, based upon truth, because I’m going to be meeting my Maker pretty soon. --BYUPD: Mm-hmm [Affirmative]. --Bishop: I want what I say here to be reflected there. I don’t know how that’s going to turn out. --BYUPD: [Chuckles]. None of us do. And you know, as priesthood holders, I think that probably the best thing you could do is just to be honest. You know, let’s just put it out, I don’t know if you’ve ever… --Bishop: Wouldn’t have any trouble with that. --BYUPD: Have you ever talked to anybody before about this? --Bishop: Yes. --BYUPD: Okay. Ecclesiastical? Or law enforcement? Or… --Bishop: Ecclesiastical. --BYUPD: Ecclesiastical. So it was never dealt with. This is the first time it sounds like you’ve ever talked to law enforcement. --Bishop: This is the first time with law enforcement. --BYUPD: Okay. So things escalated. You’re the president of the MTC. She has some issues, like past abuse or something from a… --Bishop: Well, she’d been abused. She was, she seemed to be very street-smart. --BYUPD: Mm-hmm [Affirmative]. --Bishop: She’d had a baby out of wedlock. And there was obviously struggling with that. --BYUPD: Okay. So then how’d things go? What happened? --Bishop: There’s so much I, the little things, she, I remember one occasion. They called me and said she had gone over to the temple, and she was in a wedding dress, and it was just a fun thing she was doing with some of the other missionaries. Role-playing getting married, etc. --BYUPD: At the temple? --Bishop: Yeah. --BYUPD: Like on the temple grounds? Or were they inside the temple? --Bishop: On the temple grounds. --BYUPD: Okay. --Bishop: I don’t remember much, except that I went over to the temple, got her, brought her back, told her, you know, it wasn’t appropriate, etc. --BYUPD: Mm-hmm [Affirmative]. --Bishop: She then, she came in one time, and I’m talking about hearsay of her, what I remember of her saying things to me. And then there’s the other side, what I did. So. --BYUPD: Mm-hmm [Affirmative]. --Bishop: She had some kind of an escapade with some guy. And there was intimacy. --BYUPD: At the MTC or somewhere else? --Bishop: No, somewhere else. I just remember her telling me about it. And this guy, they’d been intimate, but I don’t think there was intercourse. There was everything but intercourse, as she’s explaining. But she was telling me about he, apparently there was a crib in the room, wherever they were. And that was, he had fathered a child, and so she was telling me that this was going on when he was, you know, she was, she wasn’t happy about his approaching her when he had impregnated another lady. That’s just one of the little things. She’d had a checkered life. I remember another thing she said was that, and she couldn’t remember this, we talked about it. [Few seconds pause.] Just left me. Just trying to bring it up now. Bottom line, well, and she’d had, and she couldn’t remember this, and I don’t understand this, but she’d had, she’d gone to the Church somewhere and got an operation the Church paid for some way. To have breast enhancement, which led to the what... --BYUPD: Was this... --Bishop: ...And I know that to be true. --BYUPD: Was that before or after… --Bishop: It was during this whole process. --BYUPD: While she was at the MTC? --Bishop: She was still at the MTC. --BYUPD: So she had a breast augmentation while at the MTC? --Bishop: Prior to. --BYUPD: Prior to. --Bishop: Prior to the MTC. --BYUPD: Okay. --Bishop: And this I feel comfortable, I talked to her about it, and she just laughed, that this was not the case. Because a man, somebody, a Church official, called. And he was upset that the Church had paid for this. Did I know of this kind of thing. And I tried to defend her because, one, it was already done. I don’t know how you take that away. --BYUPD: So then what was your involvement? At what point, it sounds like there was a lot of drama around her while she was at the MTC. So what led to the point where you got involved with her? --Bishop: My marital life wasn’t going well. So there’s that kind of intrigue on the side. So I had, my office was sometimes very busy, so I found a place where I could go and do some, do my work without too much interruption. It was kind of, used to be an, I don’t think it’s in a basement, but it’s the back end of the MTC storage kind of place. I used to go there quietly to work. --BYUPD: In the main admin building? --Bishop: It was the end of the admin building, looking north. --BYUPD: So if you went to the north end of the, kind of by the cafeteria? --Bishop: Mm-hmm [Affirmative]. --BYUPD: Okay. --Bishop: Yeah, the end of the cafeteria. --BYUPD: Okay. --Bishop: Smelly place. It was near the cafeteria and all the, well, it wasn’t too smelly. Anyway, I don’t remember how, whether I invited her, whether she just came, but I was there and she came, and we talked about, I talked about, she talked about, I can’t remember, but the breast augmentation. I got, I wanted to, I wanted to see her breasts, how the operation, etc. Couple of reasons. One, just being the ‘natural man.’ That was one thing. The other thing was I thought maybe if, maybe that would be a good thing for my marriage. I don’t know why I thought that, because my wife was not, you know. So it was probably the ‘natural man’ more than anything else. But she... --BYUPD: Maybe exaggerated because of the struggles you were having with your wife? --Bishop: Probably, but I don’t want to blame that. I have to take responsibilities for me, and I’m just as much as I, as best I can bringing up my recollection of that. Anyway, she exposed herself that way, and I saw her breasts. I don’t remember touching them. I might have, I just don’t remember any more than that. This is the part that she doesn’t remember. She accuses, accused me of trying to rape her. I don’t have any, any recollection of anything like that. She said that I tore her blouse, or something like that. That, that didn’t happen in my mind. --BYUPD: What kind of physical contact happened in that room that you remember? --Bishop: That’s, I’m telling you all that I remember about it. I don’t remember kissing, hugging, embracing, anything like that. She has a different story on this, and I don’t, you know, ‘he said, she said.’ But the point that I’m making, it was not appropriate for me to even be there with her in that room. She intrigued me because she was experienced. And I could talk to her about my lack of fulfillment in the marriage. And I’m not blaming my wife. I’m trying to just do the best I can, be as honest as I can. --BYUPD: You’re fine. So did you, so you and Sister Hughes, how many times would you say, before it led up to this… --Bishop: Had I met with her? --BYUPD: ...had you met with her privately? You talked about maybe some personal stuff on your side of it? --Bishop: I can’t answer that, I don’t remember. --BYUPD: Okay. How was that room set up? --Bishop: It was a storage room, as I recall. Had a little table where I could work, etc. --BYUPD: What else was in there? So you had a table? --Bishop: I can’t remember. Just an old storage room. Maybe a workroom type. --BYUPD: So you don’t remember anything else being in there? --Bishop: I’m sure there was a lot of stuff I do not remember. --BYUPD: Who had access to that room? --Bishop: I’m assuming the maintenance people. It was just kind of not in use when I, I don’t know how I even, I was not looking for it, but it came up one time and I ‘there, I can go there and get some work done.’ --BYUPD: Is there work that you do there that you couldn’t do in your office? --Bishop: The type of work I could do there was the quiet meditation work. We had this problem, we had this problem, I could do this, I could do that, and how to work with, you know, that kind of thing. It was the quiet type of thing. --BYUPD: Was there a telephone in that room? --Bishop: No. --BYUPD: Was there a TV in that room? --Bishop: No. --BYUPD: Was there a chair in that room? --Bishop: Must have been, because I didn’t stand up to work. --BYUPD: Okay. So possibly there was, for sure a table? You’d mentioned that earlier. --Bishop: I can’t remember if it was a table or a workbench, but some, yes. --BYUPD: Some type of thing. And possibly a chair? --Bishop: Yes. --BYUPD: Was there a bed in there? --Bishop: No. --BYUPD: There was no bed? Okay. --Bishop: This was a work type thing. --BYUPD: Was there a VCR in there? Okay. So it sounds like there was some type of a workbench or table, and possibly a chair? Was there any other storage items in there? --Bishop: I don’t know. I don’t recall. --BYUPD: Okay. So from the time that you and Sister [Deleted] entered that storage closet… --Bishop: It was a room, it wasn’t a closet. --BYUPD: Oh, it was an actual room? Okay. --BYUPD: Did it have, like, mechanical boxes? --Bishop: What? --BYUPD: Mechanical box and wiring? Anything like that? Or was it just a storage? --Bishop: As best I recall, brethren, it was a storage slash mechanical workroom type thing, for maintenance. --BYUPD: Was it kind of a smaller room? --Bishop: Well, as I recall, it’s about the size of where we are now, maybe a little bigger. --BYUPD: Okay. Just the space right here? --Bishop: Yeah. --BYUPD: Okay. --Bishop: Could’ve been bigger. --BYUPD: What do you think the duration of time was, when you entered the room to the time that you had left? --Bishop: I visited the room… --BYUPD: No, when you entered with Sister [Deleted] that day. You said that you… --Bishop: I don’t know. --BYUPD: You don’t remember, you don’t recall the time. Okay. So let me just kind of recap so I get it right. So you don’t know if she followed you, if you invited her... --Bishop: No, no no. I’m sure it wasn’t, I’m sure that she didn’t follow me. I’m trying to take responsibility. --BYUPD: And I appreciate it. --Bishop: I don’t remember how it occurred, but I don’t think she followed me in. I think it was like my invite, or something that got us there together. --BYUPD: Okay. So then did you ask her to expose her breasts? --Bishop: Yes. --BYUPD: Okay. All right. --Bishop: I don’t remember it, but I’m sure I did. --BYUPD: Kay. --Bishop: I mean it just was… --BYUPD: Okay. So you enter the room, you ask her to expose her breasts, you say. Did she willingly, did she, you said, she had pulled up… --Bishop: As I recall, she just pulled up her, I don’t think… --BYUPD: No, that’s fine. --Bishop: ...I don’t think she took any clothes off. --BYUPD: Okay. So it sounds like she could have pulled up a blouse or a shirt or something that she was wearing. --Bishop: Yeah, as I recall, like that. --BYUPD: Did you see bare skin... --Bishop: Yes. --BYUPD: ...or was it a garments? So it was bare skin. --Bishop: Yeah. I think so. --BYUPD: Okay. So after she pulls her shirt up and exposes her breasts, what happens after that? --Bishop: Nothing. --BYUPD: You make a comment? You say you don’t remember touching, but... --Bishop: I’m sure I made a comment. I don’t remember anything other than that. And that she then left. Here’s where our stories...she then, she said that I tried to rape her, and that I would have except that I couldn’t get an erection. The one thing that was clear in my mind through this was the sin of intercourse wasn’t going to happen. I wasn’t, I was titillated to the point of wanting to see her breasts, but I would not, I don’t, I could not have, in my mind’s eye I couldn’t have done that. It would be too crossing the line. --BYUPD: Mm-hmm. --Bishop: So I was playing around with a firecracker. --BYUPD: So you said you couldn’t have done it because you couldn’t get an erection? --Bishop: My commit, my, no, no, that’s her story. --BYUPD: Oh, that’s her story. Okay. --Bishop: I couldn’t have done it because of my belief that that would have been beyond what I could have done. I wouldn’t have done that. --BYUPD: When you say ‘titillated,’ you think you had an erection? Did you have an erection? --Bishop: I don’t remember any of that? It’s probably the wrong word. --BYUPD: So how can you just… --Bishop: It was interesting to me to talk to somebody who has had all of that experience in life. And how she felt about it. Kinda helped me through my stuff, because the physical part of our marriage was where we didn’t see eye to eye. --BYUPD: So how would you be able to, like, how do you explain why there’s such a difference in your remembering of what happened and what she is remembering what happened? --Bishop: I have two thoughts. One, that it was so serious, that I buried it, which is possible. Two, that it’s, I had in my work at the MTC, we often had, not often, but we had sisters come in who had been abused. And through that counseling, not with me, but with our counseling department, I found that sometimes telling a story gets augmented, and pretty soon the sisters have a firm conviction that this happened, when it may or may not have. --BYUPD: The sisters or with elders? --Bishop: That sisters that had been abused. The sisters that came and [unintelligible]. I do know that’s the case. I have a friend who is accused by his daughter of abusing her. Apparently it wasn’t true, but she had in her mind, her father loving her was transformed to abuse. I don’t know, brethren. I wish I did. I have absolutely, all I can tell you is that I have absolutely no memory, absolutely no memory, of that. At all. All I remember is her raising her blouse to show me her breasts. I’m sure I asked for that. I can’t imagine that she would just do that without that. But I don’t remember any of the other, and she does. And I have to, I’m in a quandary about that. --BYUPD: So she leaves the room. Do you ever have any verbal or physical contact with her again after that incident? Or what happened after that? What was the relationship like? --Bishop: I, I don’t remember. --BYUPD: Okay. --Bishop: Now this sounds, ‘I don’t remember, I don’t remember.’ I don’t remember. Which is not uncommon for a lot of [unintelligible]. But I think I’d remember that. No, she left and I left, and we parted that way. --BYUPD: And you don’t remember having any more contact with her, any more one on one sessions, or anything? --Bishop: No, no, no. --BYUPD: Okay. Do you remember where she was going on her mission? --Bishop: I don’t remember. --BYUPD: Do you remember pulling her out of her classrooms, like to go meet with her? --Bishop: She said that too. I do not remember that. I’m not saying it’s not true, because I… --BYUPD: You just don’t remember? --Bishop: Well, she had troubles. She had problems. So I might have, may have pulled her out to find out more. I know she mentioned that to me too. --BYUPD: Did you ever bring any other sisters down to that room? Where you prepare? --Bishop: Not that I recall. Not that I recall. She said I had. I don’t recall that. She was the one that… --BYUPD: Do you remember Sister [Deleted]? --Bishop: I do. She also [Deleted] the one that...I got a call one day, and they said ‘We have a missionary who is threatening to commit suicide. She was up on a second floor window sill, threatening to dive down, head-first, onto the cement below. And that’s how I met [Deleted]. I talked her down off that, wanted to get her some help. And I’ve had a hard time getting a budget increase to get some professional help. So I went to Elder [Deleted] and told him the story, and asked, I’d asked before and was turned down, but this time, my concern was if this happened at the MTC, it would just be a terrible nightmare for the family, for the missionary, for the Church. So that, that was my concern. And we got an increase in budget to hire somebody. I sought, counseling, at that time we were using a man from the Army, a chaplain, but he didn’t have the training that we really needed for these serious problems. I didn’t think, and I think he would say the same. And I found, I think it was Brother [Deleted] was his name. Hired him, and he took over and [Deleted] therapy. --BYUPD: Did you pay for that? --Bishop: No. --BYUPD: Who paid for that? --Bishop: The Church. --BYUPD: So the Church paid for Brother [Deleted]? --Bishop: Mm-hmm [Affirmative]. --BYUPD: Okay. --Bishop: No, he was then on salary. --BYUPD: Oh, he was an employee. --Bishop: He was an employee at the MTC. --BYUPD: So he was hired specifically for… --Bishop: He was hired, not specifically for [Deleted]. --BYUPD: But as a, at the MTC as a crisis worker, or mental health, or counselor? --Bishop: Right. Counselor. --BYUPD: Okay. [Deleted] his name? --Bishop: Mm-hmm [Affirmative]. He came to my office and said that [Deleted] what he wanted to do was to keep her in a good environment. She had a recollection of, seems like an uncle. Her thing was she was sexually abused by several members of her family, maybe an uncle, maybe a stepfather, I don’t remember that. But she had that problem. He didn’t want her to go back into that environment, apparently. So he said ‘Let’s keep her here at the MTC, so she’s in the environment.’ Give her a job working in housekeeping at the MTC, as I recall. Then asked if my wife and I would take her into our home because she, he didn’t want her living in that bad environment. So we did that. With us for a while. Then she got better enough to go out. She kind of became a member of the family, in a way. --BYUPD: Is there anything that happened between you and [Deleted] [Unintelligible]? --Bishop: Yes. In the house, she came in one evening, wanted a backrub. I gave her a backrub that was not, not planned. It was a surprise to me. Anyway, it was towards the buttocks area also, the whole back. And then that stopped and she went to bed. And I thought ‘Well, that was not appropriate. That was my best, that was not appropriate.’ --BYUPD: So was that backrub, was it on the clothes, over the clothes, or something else? --Bishop: Over the clothes. Jammies, I think, she had on. --BYUPD: So was there skin-to-skin contact? --Bishop: I don’t recall, but I don’t think so. --BYUPD: So it was a backrub that worked into the lower back? --Bishop: Well, the whole back, and ended up down lower than it should have been. --BYUPD: On the buttocks? Or something else? --Bishop: Yeah. --BYUPD: And did it move to the front of her body? --Bishop: No. No, no. --BYUPD: Okay. Did it go anywhere besides her buttocks? --Bishop: I don’t, that was about it. --BYUPD: Okay. Was anything said between you and her about that? --Bishop: She came back and was, I don’t remember, but there’s something about, that we discussed it, and she was, I said ‘Okay, well, just part of the family. I’m sorry.’ I don’t know as I said ‘I’m sorry.’ I don’t remember except that we explained it away, and she seemed fine, and I felt okay, except for the fact that it had happened. --BYUPD: Sure. --Bishop: I didn’t feel okay about that. --BYUPD: Have you kept in contact with [Deleted]? --Bishop: No. --BYUPD: Where’s she from, do you remember? [Deleted] --Bishop: I don’t recall that, either. Seemed to me like it was [Delete] place like that. I’m not, I better not comment on that, because I don’t know. --BYUPD: No, it’s fine. Do you know if she ever got married after her mission? --Bishop: Yes. --BYUPD: Okay. --Bishop: And I think she got a job as a, dredging it up here, as a, working in a police station, as the girl that gets the calls in. --BYUPD: Dispatch? --Bishop: Dispatch. And she ended up marrying the chief of police, who was not a member of the Church. She taught him the Gospel, he [Unintelligible]. --BYUPD: Where was this at? --Bishop: Pardon me? --BYUPD: Where was she dispatch? --Bishop: Wherever they lived. I don’t remember where it was. --BYUPD: That’s kind of a cool story. --Bishop: I think it is. --BYUPD: Yeah. Did they stay married? Did they have kids? --Bishop: To my recollection, there was, it was a good marriage, they’re still married. --BYUPD: Oh, good. --Bishop: That didn’t track out. --BYUPD: Sure, no. That’s cool. That’s good. You remember her last name? --Bishop: Her married name? --BYUPD: Her married name. --Bishop: No. --BYUPD: Okay. But she was from down south, possibly? Wasn’t Utah, though, right? --Bishop: No. --BYUPD: Okay. All right. So you, this is quite a few years ago. Since then I’m sure you’ve been through your fair share of temple recommend interviews. Did your wife ever know about this? --Bishop: The [Deleted] thing? --BYUPD: Yes. No, not [Deleted]. With either one of them? --Bishop: I don’t think so. --BYUPD: So you never cleared that with your wife, then? It never was something that, okay. --Bishop: No. It wasn’t, it was a thing, no I did not. --BYUPD: Okay. But you said you took care of it ecclesiastically? --Bishop: Yes. Both cases. --BYUPD: Through a bishop or somebody else? --Bishop: Bishop. --BYUPD: Was it somebody higher than that? A stake president? Was it while you were mission president? At what point in your life did you try to make that right? --Bishop: Oh, right away. --BYUPD: Were you still the MTC president when you… --Bishop: Yes. --BYUPD: Do you remember who you talked to about it? --Bishop: I don’t. --BYUPD: Did you stay on as president after you had… --Bishop: Yes. --BYUPD: So you continued on with your duties as the MTC president? Okay. --BYUPD: [Unintelligible] MTC president, like was your hierarchy one of the… --Bishop: Pardon me? --BYUPD: Like a, is it… --Bishop: I’m a little… --BYUPD: Okay. As the MTC president, would you necessarily go to a bishop to resolve that? Or would you go to a managing director? --Bishop: I attended a ward. I don’t remember where I went, but it was an appropriate ecclesiastical… --BYUPD: I see. So probably a bishop? --Bishop: Probably. [LONG TANGENT FROM 37:46 to 47:22] -BYUPD: So I’m going to ask you something that we’re asked in our Temple Recommend interviews. Is there anything else, before we walk out that door, that we need to know to make this right? Whether it was at the MTC, in South America? --Bishop: Let me tell you this story. --BYUPD: Right now is the time for you. --Bishop: Right. --BYUPD: We’re going to walk out of here, and this is your opportunity. --Bishop: I understand. You’re kind of like my ecclesiastical leader right here. When I was president of the MTC, excuse me, of mission in Argentina, each time I had an event in my life that was not right, I went to my bishop. And I think I’ve taken care of all those things. But in Argentia, we had changed the dynamics of the mission. We were baptizing more than the adversary wanted to, wanted us to baptize. One of our sister missionaries started to have problems with evil spirits. In giving her a blessing, I ended up with the evil spirits plaguing me every day. Elder Wells gave me a blessing, a favorite stake president gave me a blessing. Didn’t work. I still was, I went to Elder Wells and I said ‘Okay, I want to confess everything that I can think of.’ And I went through everything I then could think of. And he stopped me and said ‘Well haven’t you…?’ And I said ‘Yes, I have, but I want to make sure. I want to make sure.’ So in answer to your question, I did that way back when. Everything incident has been talked to a bishop. I’m not sure that the bishop heard the severity of it, but yes, I had in [Deleted] case, in [Deleted] case, and other cases through my life, I confessed everything. --BYUPD: So you say every case. Are these sexual cases? --Bishop: Well, everything that needed to be talked about. --BYUPD: What about, so law enforcement, were there other cases that we need to be aware of? I mean, there’s talking to your bishop, and there’s, there’s where you cross that line and there’s criminal activity. --Bishop: No. What am I, speaking of the criminal activities, what might happen to me? --BYUPD: That is a very valid question. We’re not going to put you in cuffs and haul you away. We’re going to walk out that door. We’re going to give this to the county prosecutor in Utah County and let them make the decision on it. So I don’t know. To be honest with you, I can’t answer it. I don’t know what’s going to happen. --BYUPD: So right now we have talked to [Deleted]. --Bishop: She called you, I assume? --BYUPD: Yep. She called and made a formal police report, and that’s why we’re here. Now we’ve talked to… --Bishop: Is that recent? --BYUPD: Yeah, we just found out about it. Drove to Colorado, then drove to Arizona. Depending on you say, and what she says… --Bishop: There’s a difference there, for sure. --BYUPD: To resolve those differences, and perhaps there may be investigations and interviewing multiple individuals that maybe have had a part into it. Possible witnesses. --Bishop: I don’t know of any any individuals that...thank you --BYUPD: We’re trying to do a thorough job, looking into both sides. And then the prosecutors will have to determine whether, if there’s enough evidence to file charges or not. --Bishop: And the charges might be what? --BYUPD: Well, she’s accused you of more physical and forcible contact, including rape. --Bishop: Including rape? --BYUPD: Yes. --Bishop: Or attempted rape? --BYUPD: Well, rape is just any penetration at all. It doesn’t even have to be lengthy or anything at all. --Bishop: Well, in my mind it didn’t happen, so. [Deleted] lied to me. --BYUPD: In what way? --Bishop: We had this meeting. And I apologized. And she, she wanted to know, she’s mad at the Church. And I understand why. Because [Deleted] took this case, my case, apparently to Elder [Deleted]. And I never heard from Elder Asay, so she things the Church is, not only this, but she’s had trouble, you know, she struggled with the Church. And with her husband, they’re now divorced. I don’t know what happened there, but she’s made at him because he, he’s a good LDS guy. Taught Gospel Doctrine, and she, anyway. I don’t know the details of that. But she, where was I going with this? --BYUPD: You said she had lied to you. --Bishop: Oh. So I called her back, and she said ‘Did Elder [Deleted] ever approach you?’, and I said ‘No, he never did.’ And then I got to thinking later that someone had called me that probably came from Elder [Deleted] office. And I had told them about what I’m telling you, and that I had taken care of it ecclesiastically. Same way as if you were my bishop today. And she, so I said, I was trying to say ‘Don’t blame the Church, don’t blame Elder Asay.’ I need to be fair to [Deleted] that probably came from Elder [Deleted]. He did follow up on your case.’ So then she said ‘Well, I’ve decided,’ because we had talked also about I didn’t want my children, my grandchildren to be devastated with the actions of, my actions. Didn’t want that to happen. It seems kind of popular today, all the news is about wayward men and their actions. In the political arena, and all over the place. And I know what it does to those families. Looking at that, I’m like, wow, that’s there. She said that she had decided not to, that she accepted my statement of, she had forgiven me, in a word. She said that. Forgiven me. And I thought, anyway, and I told her this other thing about Elder Asay, and that’s the last conversation. --BYUPD: You know, she called us before she met with you, and she didn’t tell us that she had met with you. --Bishop: Oh. --BYUPD: Until right before. So she made a police report, and then met with you, without us knowing. So. --Bishop: Oh. --BYUPD: But because she had made that report, we’re bound by our duty to follow up with that, and that’s what we did. --Bishop: Of course. --BYUPD: So do you think she is making this up? That there was no physical contact? --Bishop: You know, I do not, but I don’t think she’s accurate. I don’t think, I think it’s the syndrome type thing that I’ve heard about. --BYUPD: You think there’s a mental illness is causing her… --Bishop: Well, you want to, this happened, this happened, when it really didn’t happen. She wanted to accuse me of rape. Didn’t happen. But what did happen was the foundation for her to try, huh, that sounds like casting the blame on her. This girl has had a lot of problems in her life. Baby out of wedlock. She’s kind of like a feminist. She’s going to get you. Life, not me, but life. She’s not going to put up with it. She’s very tough. She’s very tough. She’s been through a lot. In the MTC, my heart went out to her. She’s just been through a lot. Very street-wise. She told me this story, which I’ve mentioned before. Did you have bikers? She told me this story that, a male that had abused her when she was younger, that she had some biker friends, and they were going to go beat up on him, type thing. So she was for retribution. And she told me the same thing, but she couldn’t remember, she said she didn’t have any biker friends. And [Unintelligible] what is it, a story that you told way back when? --BYUPD: So this story was something that came out at the MTC, and not at this last meeting? --Bishop: Oh, yeah. No, way back when. I’m just trying to put it in context. She asked me if what she believes, I suspect she believes it. Is it true? I suspect it isn’t. Maybe my memory is fading. But brethren, as honest as I can be, that never happened. Absolutely. Unequivocally. --BYUPD: So you’re saying you have no memory of that at all? --Bishop: No, and I don’t think it was something I could have done. What happened is what I’ve told you. So does she believe it? I think she does? Is it right? I don’t, no, it’s not ‘think,’ I just can’t believe that. I know what happened. I couldn’t have forgotten that. I didn’t forget the other, why would I forget something. I’ve been as honest as I can be. --BYUPD: We appreciate you talking to us. [WRAPPING UP TALK FROM 59:04 to 1:03:20] 3
Exiled Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Calm said: Please quote where webbles stated or implied this. If I have to repeat the obvious, then what will become of us ..... lol He is overly and unjustifiably minimizing what probably happened, like you are, because heaven forbid a leader does something that is wrong. That cannot be tolerated, of course. It really doesn't have anything to do with you or your beliefs, if Mr. Bishop committed everything Ms. Denson says or did something a little less, but still rising to a sexual assault. There really is no need to pretend Mr. Bishop suffers from dementia or minimize what Mr. Bishop really confessed. Try to look at this without the defender glasses ....
Calm Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 Thanks, smac. Life intruded, much prefer when others do the work.
Popular Post Calm Posted June 23, 2019 Popular Post Posted June 23, 2019 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Exiled said: because heaven forbid a leader does something that is wrong. That cannot be tolerated, of course. I know leaders who have done wrong. Two of my bishops were excommunicated. One was rebaptized as soon as possible even though he had tried to convince her not to confess and continued to harass the woman he had an affair with. I think whoever cleared him made a grave error. You are yet again making assumptions about how I and others think that are unjustified and just plain wrong...which would be obvious to someone who hadn't already made up his mind about what others think since I have said as much. I have said from the beginning I thought Bishop had done something that qualified as abuse. I think he may well be lying about what he personally did, I believe there were multiple victims and that just isn't a moment of carelessness because he is "intrigued" with an "experienced" young woman. If Bishop has mild dementia in the here and now or even severe ( which I highly doubt), it says nothing about what he was capable of in 1984-87. You just don't seem capable of seeing anything you don't expect to see. Edited June 23, 2019 by Calm 7
webbles Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 12 hours ago, Exiled said: If I have to repeat the obvious, then what will become of us ..... lol He is overly and unjustifiably minimizing what probably happened, like you are, because heaven forbid a leader does something that is wrong. That cannot be tolerated, of course. It really doesn't have anything to do with you or your beliefs, if Mr. Bishop committed everything Ms. Denson says or did something a little less, but still rising to a sexual assault. There really is no need to pretend Mr. Bishop suffers from dementia or minimize what Mr. Bishop really confessed. Try to look at this without the defender glasses .... No, I am not minimizing what probably happened. My comment wasn't even about what probably happened. My comment was about what the Bishop probably confessed. How much did his bishop or other church leaders know about what he did? That's what this case is about. If church authorities knew he was a predator and still left him in that position or called him to that position, then that is a big problem. But, reading and listening to Bishop, I don't think he would have really confessed the truth. Even in his confession to the police, he is blaming his "natural man", his marriage, and even the victim. 2
Exiled Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 13 hours ago, Calm said: I know leaders who have done wrong. Two of my bishops were excommunicated. One was rebaptized as soon as possible even though he had tried to convince her not to confess and continued to harass the woman he had an affair with. I think whoever cleared him made a grave error. You are yet again making assumptions about how I and others think that are unjustified and just plain wrong...which would be obvious to someone who hadn't already made up his mind about what others think since I have said as much. I have said from the beginning I thought Bishop had done something that qualified as abuse. I think he may well be lying about what he personally did, I believe there were multiple victims and that just isn't a moment of carelessness because he is "intrigued" with an "experienced" young woman. If Bishop has mild dementia in the here and now or even severe ( which I highly doubt), it says nothing about what he was capable of in 1984-87. You just don't seem capable of seeing anything you don't expect to see. Again, what is the point of trying to get others to think that Mr. Bishop has dementia? He seems pretty lucid from the recordings. You aren't a doctor. You're just guessing at this. Also, you are a prominent commenter on a believing discussion board where there are perhaps participants including yourself that seek to minimize whatever is thought to besmirch the good name of the church. Also, you say he did some bad acts on multiple victims which seems obvious. Yet there is still the issue of the church letting this slide because the lucid and competent Mr. Bishop says he confessed to his leader and still kept his job. Perhaps if he is suffering from dementia, as you want everyone to believe, it will minimize or eliminate the confession episode? It would seem that this is where claiming a witness, still undiagnosed, but alleged to have dementia, however slight, would convince some or comfort some who question how the discernment powers would get mixed up or whatever happened to allow Mr. Bishop to retain his position. When did this confession by Bishop take place? Too bad for Ms. Denson that she acts and/or acted the way she does/did. There just might have been something to this case after all .....
Exiled Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 1 hour ago, webbles said: No, I am not minimizing what probably happened. My comment wasn't even about what probably happened. My comment was about what the Bishop probably confessed. How much did his bishop or other church leaders know about what he did? That's what this case is about. If church authorities knew he was a predator and still left him in that position or called him to that position, then that is a big problem. But, reading and listening to Bishop, I don't think he would have really confessed the truth. Even in his confession to the police, he is blaming his "natural man", his marriage, and even the victim. I agree with you that the confession part is what remains. But still, where do you get that Mr. Bishop probably didn't confess everything? I suspect this is where a desire to see something might be creeping into the mix. The fact is that we don't know what was confessed because the questioner cop didn't ask any follow up questions on this subject. That would be the subject of further inquiry. Also, speaking to cops and speaking to church leaders are two different matters.
Tacenda Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 17 hours ago, smac97 said: Here's a partial transcript of the intervew PARTIAL TRANSCRIPT OF BYU PD INTERVIEW OF JOSEPH BISHOP ON DECEMBER 5, 2017 --Bishop: There’s my friends. --BYUPD: How are you doing? --BYPD: How are you doing today? --Bishop: How are you? Come on in. --BYUPD: All right, thanks. --Bishop: Sorry, I just got out of bed. --BYUPD: No, you’re good. --BYUPD: I’m Sergeant Nelson, I’m with the BYU Police Department. This is Detective Long. --Bishop: Come and sit down. --BYUPD: Thanks. You’re expecting us, I bet? Were you? --Bishop: I never know what to do. --BYUPD: All right. [Muffled] --Bishop: Let me turn on a light. --BYUPD: Okay, thank you. --Bishop: Do you want to, me out there and you here, or… --BYUPD: Um, either way, whatever you’re comfortable with. Do you mind if I take my jacket off? --Bishop: Please. [Crosstalk] --Bishop: Just got out of the hospital a little while ago. --BYUPD: Oh? How long ago was that? --Bishop: Oh, it was last week. It’s my heart, so it’s, it takes time. --BYUPD: All right. Yes, that is not good. So you probably know why we’re here, right? --Bishop: Pardon me? --BYUPD: I said do you know why we’re here? --Bishop: I have no idea. I have an idea, but you just tell me. --BYUPD: All right. --Bishop: Do I need an attorney? --BYUPD: Well, you know, that’s totally up to you. I can’t advise you either way, but I think there’s some things that need to be, that you probably ought to talk to us about. You had a visitor a couple days ago. --Bishop: And her name, what? --BYUPD: She goes by [Deleted]. --Bishop: I know her. --BYUPD: So she called us, and told us her side of what had happened. So we’re here to get your side of it. So did you meet with her? --Bishop: Yes. I knew [Deleted]. I was in the MTC, she was a missionary there. --BYUPD: Okay. When were you at the MTC? --Bishop: My memory isn’t as good as it was. I’m 85, nearly 86. But it seems like ‘83 to ‘86. --BYUPD: ‘83 to ‘86. And what was your capacity there? --Bishop: I was president. --BYUPD: So you were president of the MTC? --Bishop: Mm-hmm [Affirmative]. --BYUPD: Kay. So how did you know [Deleted]? --Bishop: She was, I can’t remember how it started, but she was a, she had had some problems. Seems like it was her father or stepfather had abused her. And at that time, so she came in to talk about that. I think that’s how I met her. --BYUPD: Okay. So were you aware of that abuse before she got there? Or… --Bishop: Pardon me? --BYUPD: Were you aware of the abuse before she got there? Or was it when she got there she had… --Bishop: No. She came in. --BYUPD: Oh, okay. --Bishop: In some way that was the foundation of her struggles with life. --BYUPD: Oh, gotcha. Okay. So what was your relationship? How’d that go? --Bishop: Well, it started off counseling, trying to help her, type thing. She seemed, well that’s about it. --BYUPD: Okay. So did things escalate from there? --Bishop: I think that’s a good way of putting it. --BYUPD: Okay. How did it escalate? --Bishop: Well, I really don’t know. It just, it just, she, just one item after another would come in, and that kind of thing. --BYUPD: So how many times did you meet with her? Did you meet with her like one on one? Or how did, so there was times when you were alone with her? --Bishop: Yes. --BYUPD: Okay. So it sounds like that relationship, that friendship, whatever it was, it got physical? --Bishop: Yes. --BYUPD: Okay. And how did that, can you tell me about that? --Bishop: What I remember of it, and what she remembers of it, is not the same. --BYUPD: Oh, you know, there’s always two sides. That’s why we’re here, so. --Bishop: I want to be honest, because my position is I’m not, I’ve got a heart condition. 85. I’m not going to be around much longer. --BYUPD: Sure. --Bishop: So what I say here needs to be, well it needs to be anyway, based upon truth, because I’m going to be meeting my Maker pretty soon. --BYUPD: Mm-hmm [Affirmative]. --Bishop: I want what I say here to be reflected there. I don’t know how that’s going to turn out. --BYUPD: [Chuckles]. None of us do. And you know, as priesthood holders, I think that probably the best thing you could do is just to be honest. You know, let’s just put it out, I don’t know if you’ve ever… --Bishop: Wouldn’t have any trouble with that. --BYUPD: Have you ever talked to anybody before about this? --Bishop: Yes. --BYUPD: Okay. Ecclesiastical? Or law enforcement? Or… --Bishop: Ecclesiastical. --BYUPD: Ecclesiastical. So it was never dealt with. This is the first time it sounds like you’ve ever talked to law enforcement. --Bishop: This is the first time with law enforcement. --BYUPD: Okay. So things escalated. You’re the president of the MTC. She has some issues, like past abuse or something from a… --Bishop: Well, she’d been abused. She was, she seemed to be very street-smart. --BYUPD: Mm-hmm [Affirmative]. --Bishop: She’d had a baby out of wedlock. And there was obviously struggling with that. --BYUPD: Okay. So then how’d things go? What happened? --Bishop: There’s so much I, the little things, she, I remember one occasion. They called me and said she had gone over to the temple, and she was in a wedding dress, and it was just a fun thing she was doing with some of the other missionaries. Role-playing getting married, etc. --BYUPD: At the temple? --Bishop: Yeah. --BYUPD: Like on the temple grounds? Or were they inside the temple? --Bishop: On the temple grounds. --BYUPD: Okay. --Bishop: I don’t remember much, except that I went over to the temple, got her, brought her back, told her, you know, it wasn’t appropriate, etc. --BYUPD: Mm-hmm [Affirmative]. --Bishop: She then, she came in one time, and I’m talking about hearsay of her, what I remember of her saying things to me. And then there’s the other side, what I did. So. --BYUPD: Mm-hmm [Affirmative]. --Bishop: She had some kind of an escapade with some guy. And there was intimacy. --BYUPD: At the MTC or somewhere else? --Bishop: No, somewhere else. I just remember her telling me about it. And this guy, they’d been intimate, but I don’t think there was intercourse. There was everything but intercourse, as she’s explaining. But she was telling me about he, apparently there was a crib in the room, wherever they were. And that was, he had fathered a child, and so she was telling me that this was going on when he was, you know, she was, she wasn’t happy about his approaching her when he had impregnated another lady. That’s just one of the little things. She’d had a checkered life. I remember another thing she said was that, and she couldn’t remember this, we talked about it. [Few seconds pause.] Just left me. Just trying to bring it up now. Bottom line, well, and she’d had, and she couldn’t remember this, and I don’t understand this, but she’d had, she’d gone to the Church somewhere and got an operation the Church paid for some way. To have breast enhancement, which led to the what... --BYUPD: Was this... --Bishop: ...And I know that to be true. --BYUPD: Was that before or after… --Bishop: It was during this whole process. --BYUPD: While she was at the MTC? --Bishop: She was still at the MTC. --BYUPD: So she had a breast augmentation while at the MTC? --Bishop: Prior to. --BYUPD: Prior to. --Bishop: Prior to the MTC. --BYUPD: Okay. --Bishop: And this I feel comfortable, I talked to her about it, and she just laughed, that this was not the case. Because a man, somebody, a Church official, called. And he was upset that the Church had paid for this. Did I know of this kind of thing. And I tried to defend her because, one, it was already done. I don’t know how you take that away. --BYUPD: So then what was your involvement? At what point, it sounds like there was a lot of drama around her while she was at the MTC. So what led to the point where you got involved with her? --Bishop: My marital life wasn’t going well. So there’s that kind of intrigue on the side. So I had, my office was sometimes very busy, so I found a place where I could go and do some, do my work without too much interruption. It was kind of, used to be an, I don’t think it’s in a basement, but it’s the back end of the MTC storage kind of place. I used to go there quietly to work. --BYUPD: In the main admin building? --Bishop: It was the end of the admin building, looking north. --BYUPD: So if you went to the north end of the, kind of by the cafeteria? --Bishop: Mm-hmm [Affirmative]. --BYUPD: Okay. --Bishop: Yeah, the end of the cafeteria. --BYUPD: Okay. --Bishop: Smelly place. It was near the cafeteria and all the, well, it wasn’t too smelly. Anyway, I don’t remember how, whether I invited her, whether she just came, but I was there and she came, and we talked about, I talked about, she talked about, I can’t remember, but the breast augmentation. I got, I wanted to, I wanted to see her breasts, how the operation, etc. Couple of reasons. One, just being the ‘natural man.’ That was one thing. The other thing was I thought maybe if, maybe that would be a good thing for my marriage. I don’t know why I thought that, because my wife was not, you know. So it was probably the ‘natural man’ more than anything else. But she... --BYUPD: Maybe exaggerated because of the struggles you were having with your wife? --Bishop: Probably, but I don’t want to blame that. I have to take responsibilities for me, and I’m just as much as I, as best I can bringing up my recollection of that. Anyway, she exposed herself that way, and I saw her breasts. I don’t remember touching them. I might have, I just don’t remember any more than that. This is the part that she doesn’t remember. She accuses, accused me of trying to rape her. I don’t have any, any recollection of anything like that. She said that I tore her blouse, or something like that. That, that didn’t happen in my mind. --BYUPD: What kind of physical contact happened in that room that you remember? --Bishop: That’s, I’m telling you all that I remember about it. I don’t remember kissing, hugging, embracing, anything like that. She has a different story on this, and I don’t, you know, ‘he said, she said.’ But the point that I’m making, it was not appropriate for me to even be there with her in that room. She intrigued me because she was experienced. And I could talk to her about my lack of fulfillment in the marriage. And I’m not blaming my wife. I’m trying to just do the best I can, be as honest as I can. --BYUPD: You’re fine. So did you, so you and Sister Hughes, how many times would you say, before it led up to this… --Bishop: Had I met with her? --BYUPD: ...had you met with her privately? You talked about maybe some personal stuff on your side of it? --Bishop: I can’t answer that, I don’t remember. --BYUPD: Okay. How was that room set up? --Bishop: It was a storage room, as I recall. Had a little table where I could work, etc. --BYUPD: What else was in there? So you had a table? --Bishop: I can’t remember. Just an old storage room. Maybe a workroom type. --BYUPD: So you don’t remember anything else being in there? --Bishop: I’m sure there was a lot of stuff I do not remember. --BYUPD: Who had access to that room? --Bishop: I’m assuming the maintenance people. It was just kind of not in use when I, I don’t know how I even, I was not looking for it, but it came up one time and I ‘there, I can go there and get some work done.’ --BYUPD: Is there work that you do there that you couldn’t do in your office? --Bishop: The type of work I could do there was the quiet meditation work. We had this problem, we had this problem, I could do this, I could do that, and how to work with, you know, that kind of thing. It was the quiet type of thing. --BYUPD: Was there a telephone in that room? --Bishop: No. --BYUPD: Was there a TV in that room? --Bishop: No. --BYUPD: Was there a chair in that room? --Bishop: Must have been, because I didn’t stand up to work. --BYUPD: Okay. So possibly there was, for sure a table? You’d mentioned that earlier. --Bishop: I can’t remember if it was a table or a workbench, but some, yes. --BYUPD: Some type of thing. And possibly a chair? --Bishop: Yes. --BYUPD: Was there a bed in there? --Bishop: No. --BYUPD: There was no bed? Okay. --Bishop: This was a work type thing. --BYUPD: Was there a VCR in there? Okay. So it sounds like there was some type of a workbench or table, and possibly a chair? Was there any other storage items in there? --Bishop: I don’t know. I don’t recall. --BYUPD: Okay. So from the time that you and Sister [Deleted] entered that storage closet… --Bishop: It was a room, it wasn’t a closet. --BYUPD: Oh, it was an actual room? Okay. --BYUPD: Did it have, like, mechanical boxes? --Bishop: What? --BYUPD: Mechanical box and wiring? Anything like that? Or was it just a storage? --Bishop: As best I recall, brethren, it was a storage slash mechanical workroom type thing, for maintenance. --BYUPD: Was it kind of a smaller room? --Bishop: Well, as I recall, it’s about the size of where we are now, maybe a little bigger. --BYUPD: Okay. Just the space right here? --Bishop: Yeah. --BYUPD: Okay. --Bishop: Could’ve been bigger. --BYUPD: What do you think the duration of time was, when you entered the room to the time that you had left? --Bishop: I visited the room… --BYUPD: No, when you entered with Sister [Deleted] that day. You said that you… --Bishop: I don’t know. --BYUPD: You don’t remember, you don’t recall the time. Okay. So let me just kind of recap so I get it right. So you don’t know if she followed you, if you invited her... --Bishop: No, no no. I’m sure it wasn’t, I’m sure that she didn’t follow me. I’m trying to take responsibility. --BYUPD: And I appreciate it. --Bishop: I don’t remember how it occurred, but I don’t think she followed me in. I think it was like my invite, or something that got us there together. --BYUPD: Okay. So then did you ask her to expose her breasts? --Bishop: Yes. --BYUPD: Okay. All right. --Bishop: I don’t remember it, but I’m sure I did. --BYUPD: Kay. --Bishop: I mean it just was… --BYUPD: Okay. So you enter the room, you ask her to expose her breasts, you say. Did she willingly, did she, you said, she had pulled up… --Bishop: As I recall, she just pulled up her, I don’t think… --BYUPD: No, that’s fine. --Bishop: ...I don’t think she took any clothes off. --BYUPD: Okay. So it sounds like she could have pulled up a blouse or a shirt or something that she was wearing. --Bishop: Yeah, as I recall, like that. --BYUPD: Did you see bare skin... --Bishop: Yes. --BYUPD: ...or was it a garments? So it was bare skin. --Bishop: Yeah. I think so. --BYUPD: Okay. So after she pulls her shirt up and exposes her breasts, what happens after that? --Bishop: Nothing. --BYUPD: You make a comment? You say you don’t remember touching, but... --Bishop: I’m sure I made a comment. I don’t remember anything other than that. And that she then left. Here’s where our stories...she then, she said that I tried to rape her, and that I would have except that I couldn’t get an erection. The one thing that was clear in my mind through this was the sin of intercourse wasn’t going to happen. I wasn’t, I was titillated to the point of wanting to see her breasts, but I would not, I don’t, I could not have, in my mind’s eye I couldn’t have done that. It would be too crossing the line. --BYUPD: Mm-hmm. --Bishop: So I was playing around with a firecracker. --BYUPD: So you said you couldn’t have done it because you couldn’t get an erection? --Bishop: My commit, my, no, no, that’s her story. --BYUPD: Oh, that’s her story. Okay. --Bishop: I couldn’t have done it because of my belief that that would have been beyond what I could have done. I wouldn’t have done that. --BYUPD: When you say ‘titillated,’ you think you had an erection? Did you have an erection? --Bishop: I don’t remember any of that? It’s probably the wrong word. --BYUPD: So how can you just… --Bishop: It was interesting to me to talk to somebody who has had all of that experience in life. And how she felt about it. Kinda helped me through my stuff, because the physical part of our marriage was where we didn’t see eye to eye. --BYUPD: So how would you be able to, like, how do you explain why there’s such a difference in your remembering of what happened and what she is remembering what happened? --Bishop: I have two thoughts. One, that it was so serious, that I buried it, which is possible. Two, that it’s, I had in my work at the MTC, we often had, not often, but we had sisters come in who had been abused. And through that counseling, not with me, but with our counseling department, I found that sometimes telling a story gets augmented, and pretty soon the sisters have a firm conviction that this happened, when it may or may not have. --BYUPD: The sisters or with elders? --Bishop: That sisters that had been abused. The sisters that came and [unintelligible]. I do know that’s the case. I have a friend who is accused by his daughter of abusing her. Apparently it wasn’t true, but she had in her mind, her father loving her was transformed to abuse. I don’t know, brethren. I wish I did. I have absolutely, all I can tell you is that I have absolutely no memory, absolutely no memory, of that. At all. All I remember is her raising her blouse to show me her breasts. I’m sure I asked for that. I can’t imagine that she would just do that without that. But I don’t remember any of the other, and she does. And I have to, I’m in a quandary about that. --BYUPD: So she leaves the room. Do you ever have any verbal or physical contact with her again after that incident? Or what happened after that? What was the relationship like? --Bishop: I, I don’t remember. --BYUPD: Okay. --Bishop: Now this sounds, ‘I don’t remember, I don’t remember.’ I don’t remember. Which is not uncommon for a lot of [unintelligible]. But I think I’d remember that. No, she left and I left, and we parted that way. --BYUPD: And you don’t remember having any more contact with her, any more one on one sessions, or anything? --Bishop: No, no, no. --BYUPD: Okay. Do you remember where she was going on her mission? --Bishop: I don’t remember. --BYUPD: Do you remember pulling her out of her classrooms, like to go meet with her? --Bishop: She said that too. I do not remember that. I’m not saying it’s not true, because I… --BYUPD: You just don’t remember? --Bishop: Well, she had troubles. She had problems. So I might have, may have pulled her out to find out more. I know she mentioned that to me too. --BYUPD: Did you ever bring any other sisters down to that room? Where you prepare? --Bishop: Not that I recall. Not that I recall. She said I had. I don’t recall that. She was the one that… --BYUPD: Do you remember Sister [Deleted]? --Bishop: I do. She also [Deleted] the one that...I got a call one day, and they said ‘We have a missionary who is threatening to commit suicide. She was up on a second floor window sill, threatening to dive down, head-first, onto the cement below. And that’s how I met [Deleted]. I talked her down off that, wanted to get her some help. And I’ve had a hard time getting a budget increase to get some professional help. So I went to Elder [Deleted] and told him the story, and asked, I’d asked before and was turned down, but this time, my concern was if this happened at the MTC, it would just be a terrible nightmare for the family, for the missionary, for the Church. So that, that was my concern. And we got an increase in budget to hire somebody. I sought, counseling, at that time we were using a man from the Army, a chaplain, but he didn’t have the training that we really needed for these serious problems. I didn’t think, and I think he would say the same. And I found, I think it was Brother [Deleted] was his name. Hired him, and he took over and [Deleted] therapy. --BYUPD: Did you pay for that? --Bishop: No. --BYUPD: Who paid for that? --Bishop: The Church. --BYUPD: So the Church paid for Brother [Deleted]? --Bishop: Mm-hmm [Affirmative]. --BYUPD: Okay. --Bishop: No, he was then on salary. --BYUPD: Oh, he was an employee. --Bishop: He was an employee at the MTC. --BYUPD: So he was hired specifically for… --Bishop: He was hired, not specifically for [Deleted]. --BYUPD: But as a, at the MTC as a crisis worker, or mental health, or counselor? --Bishop: Right. Counselor. --BYUPD: Okay. [Deleted] his name? --Bishop: Mm-hmm [Affirmative]. He came to my office and said that [Deleted] what he wanted to do was to keep her in a good environment. She had a recollection of, seems like an uncle. Her thing was she was sexually abused by several members of her family, maybe an uncle, maybe a stepfather, I don’t remember that. But she had that problem. He didn’t want her to go back into that environment, apparently. So he said ‘Let’s keep her here at the MTC, so she’s in the environment.’ Give her a job working in housekeeping at the MTC, as I recall. Then asked if my wife and I would take her into our home because she, he didn’t want her living in that bad environment. So we did that. With us for a while. Then she got better enough to go out. She kind of became a member of the family, in a way. --BYUPD: Is there anything that happened between you and [Deleted] [Unintelligible]? --Bishop: Yes. In the house, she came in one evening, wanted a backrub. I gave her a backrub that was not, not planned. It was a surprise to me. Anyway, it was towards the buttocks area also, the whole back. And then that stopped and she went to bed. And I thought ‘Well, that was not appropriate. That was my best, that was not appropriate.’ --BYUPD: So was that backrub, was it on the clothes, over the clothes, or something else? --Bishop: Over the clothes. Jammies, I think, she had on. --BYUPD: So was there skin-to-skin contact? --Bishop: I don’t recall, but I don’t think so. --BYUPD: So it was a backrub that worked into the lower back? --Bishop: Well, the whole back, and ended up down lower than it should have been. --BYUPD: On the buttocks? Or something else? --Bishop: Yeah. --BYUPD: And did it move to the front of her body? --Bishop: No. No, no. --BYUPD: Okay. Did it go anywhere besides her buttocks? --Bishop: I don’t, that was about it. --BYUPD: Okay. Was anything said between you and her about that? --Bishop: She came back and was, I don’t remember, but there’s something about, that we discussed it, and she was, I said ‘Okay, well, just part of the family. I’m sorry.’ I don’t know as I said ‘I’m sorry.’ I don’t remember except that we explained it away, and she seemed fine, and I felt okay, except for the fact that it had happened. --BYUPD: Sure. --Bishop: I didn’t feel okay about that. --BYUPD: Have you kept in contact with [Deleted]? --Bishop: No. --BYUPD: Where’s she from, do you remember? [Deleted] --Bishop: I don’t recall that, either. Seemed to me like it was [Delete] place like that. I’m not, I better not comment on that, because I don’t know. --BYUPD: No, it’s fine. Do you know if she ever got married after her mission? --Bishop: Yes. --BYUPD: Okay. --Bishop: And I think she got a job as a, dredging it up here, as a, working in a police station, as the girl that gets the calls in. --BYUPD: Dispatch? --Bishop: Dispatch. And she ended up marrying the chief of police, who was not a member of the Church. She taught him the Gospel, he [Unintelligible]. --BYUPD: Where was this at? --Bishop: Pardon me? --BYUPD: Where was she dispatch? --Bishop: Wherever they lived. I don’t remember where it was. --BYUPD: That’s kind of a cool story. --Bishop: I think it is. --BYUPD: Yeah. Did they stay married? Did they have kids? --Bishop: To my recollection, there was, it was a good marriage, they’re still married. --BYUPD: Oh, good. --Bishop: That didn’t track out. --BYUPD: Sure, no. That’s cool. That’s good. You remember her last name? --Bishop: Her married name? --BYUPD: Her married name. --Bishop: No. --BYUPD: Okay. But she was from down south, possibly? Wasn’t Utah, though, right? --Bishop: No. --BYUPD: Okay. All right. So you, this is quite a few years ago. Since then I’m sure you’ve been through your fair share of temple recommend interviews. Did your wife ever know about this? --Bishop: The [Deleted] thing? --BYUPD: Yes. No, not [Deleted]. With either one of them? --Bishop: I don’t think so. --BYUPD: So you never cleared that with your wife, then? It never was something that, okay. --Bishop: No. It wasn’t, it was a thing, no I did not. --BYUPD: Okay. But you said you took care of it ecclesiastically? --Bishop: Yes. Both cases. --BYUPD: Through a bishop or somebody else? --Bishop: Bishop. --BYUPD: Was it somebody higher than that? A stake president? Was it while you were mission president? At what point in your life did you try to make that right? --Bishop: Oh, right away. --BYUPD: Were you still the MTC president when you… --Bishop: Yes. --BYUPD: Do you remember who you talked to about it? --Bishop: I don’t. --BYUPD: Did you stay on as president after you had… --Bishop: Yes. --BYUPD: So you continued on with your duties as the MTC president? Okay. --BYUPD: [Unintelligible] MTC president, like was your hierarchy one of the… --Bishop: Pardon me? --BYUPD: Like a, is it… --Bishop: I’m a little… --BYUPD: Okay. As the MTC president, would you necessarily go to a bishop to resolve that? Or would you go to a managing director? --Bishop: I attended a ward. I don’t remember where I went, but it was an appropriate ecclesiastical… --BYUPD: I see. So probably a bishop? --Bishop: Probably. [LONG TANGENT FROM 37:46 to 47:22] -BYUPD: So I’m going to ask you something that we’re asked in our Temple Recommend interviews. Is there anything else, before we walk out that door, that we need to know to make this right? Whether it was at the MTC, in South America? --Bishop: Let me tell you this story. --BYUPD: Right now is the time for you. --Bishop: Right. --BYUPD: We’re going to walk out of here, and this is your opportunity. --Bishop: I understand. You’re kind of like my ecclesiastical leader right here. When I was president of the MTC, excuse me, of mission in Argentina, each time I had an event in my life that was not right, I went to my bishop. And I think I’ve taken care of all those things. But in Argentia, we had changed the dynamics of the mission. We were baptizing more than the adversary wanted to, wanted us to baptize. One of our sister missionaries started to have problems with evil spirits. In giving her a blessing, I ended up with the evil spirits plaguing me every day. Elder Wells gave me a blessing, a favorite stake president gave me a blessing. Didn’t work. I still was, I went to Elder Wells and I said ‘Okay, I want to confess everything that I can think of.’ And I went through everything I then could think of. And he stopped me and said ‘Well haven’t you…?’ And I said ‘Yes, I have, but I want to make sure. I want to make sure.’ So in answer to your question, I did that way back when. Everything incident has been talked to a bishop. I’m not sure that the bishop heard the severity of it, but yes, I had in [Deleted] case, in [Deleted] case, and other cases through my life, I confessed everything. --BYUPD: So you say every case. Are these sexual cases? --Bishop: Well, everything that needed to be talked about. --BYUPD: What about, so law enforcement, were there other cases that we need to be aware of? I mean, there’s talking to your bishop, and there’s, there’s where you cross that line and there’s criminal activity. --Bishop: No. What am I, speaking of the criminal activities, what might happen to me? --BYUPD: That is a very valid question. We’re not going to put you in cuffs and haul you away. We’re going to walk out that door. We’re going to give this to the county prosecutor in Utah County and let them make the decision on it. So I don’t know. To be honest with you, I can’t answer it. I don’t know what’s going to happen. --BYUPD: So right now we have talked to [Deleted]. --Bishop: She called you, I assume? --BYUPD: Yep. She called and made a formal police report, and that’s why we’re here. Now we’ve talked to… --Bishop: Is that recent? --BYUPD: Yeah, we just found out about it. Drove to Colorado, then drove to Arizona. Depending on you say, and what she says… --Bishop: There’s a difference there, for sure. --BYUPD: To resolve those differences, and perhaps there may be investigations and interviewing multiple individuals that maybe have had a part into it. Possible witnesses. --Bishop: I don’t know of any any individuals that...thank you --BYUPD: We’re trying to do a thorough job, looking into both sides. And then the prosecutors will have to determine whether, if there’s enough evidence to file charges or not. --Bishop: And the charges might be what? --BYUPD: Well, she’s accused you of more physical and forcible contact, including rape. --Bishop: Including rape? --BYUPD: Yes. --Bishop: Or attempted rape? --BYUPD: Well, rape is just any penetration at all. It doesn’t even have to be lengthy or anything at all. --Bishop: Well, in my mind it didn’t happen, so. [Deleted] lied to me. --BYUPD: In what way? --Bishop: We had this meeting. And I apologized. And she, she wanted to know, she’s mad at the Church. And I understand why. Because [Deleted] took this case, my case, apparently to Elder [Deleted]. And I never heard from Elder Asay, so she things the Church is, not only this, but she’s had trouble, you know, she struggled with the Church. And with her husband, they’re now divorced. I don’t know what happened there, but she’s made at him because he, he’s a good LDS guy. Taught Gospel Doctrine, and she, anyway. I don’t know the details of that. But she, where was I going with this? --BYUPD: You said she had lied to you. --Bishop: Oh. So I called her back, and she said ‘Did Elder [Deleted] ever approach you?’, and I said ‘No, he never did.’ And then I got to thinking later that someone had called me that probably came from Elder [Deleted] office. And I had told them about what I’m telling you, and that I had taken care of it ecclesiastically. Same way as if you were my bishop today. And she, so I said, I was trying to say ‘Don’t blame the Church, don’t blame Elder Asay.’ I need to be fair to [Deleted] that probably came from Elder [Deleted]. He did follow up on your case.’ So then she said ‘Well, I’ve decided,’ because we had talked also about I didn’t want my children, my grandchildren to be devastated with the actions of, my actions. Didn’t want that to happen. It seems kind of popular today, all the news is about wayward men and their actions. In the political arena, and all over the place. And I know what it does to those families. Looking at that, I’m like, wow, that’s there. She said that she had decided not to, that she accepted my statement of, she had forgiven me, in a word. She said that. Forgiven me. And I thought, anyway, and I told her this other thing about Elder Asay, and that’s the last conversation. --BYUPD: You know, she called us before she met with you, and she didn’t tell us that she had met with you. --Bishop: Oh. --BYUPD: Until right before. So she made a police report, and then met with you, without us knowing. So. --Bishop: Oh. --BYUPD: But because she had made that report, we’re bound by our duty to follow up with that, and that’s what we did. --Bishop: Of course. --BYUPD: So do you think she is making this up? That there was no physical contact? --Bishop: You know, I do not, but I don’t think she’s accurate. I don’t think, I think it’s the syndrome type thing that I’ve heard about. --BYUPD: You think there’s a mental illness is causing her… --Bishop: Well, you want to, this happened, this happened, when it really didn’t happen. She wanted to accuse me of rape. Didn’t happen. But what did happen was the foundation for her to try, huh, that sounds like casting the blame on her. This girl has had a lot of problems in her life. Baby out of wedlock. She’s kind of like a feminist. She’s going to get you. Life, not me, but life. She’s not going to put up with it. She’s very tough. She’s very tough. She’s been through a lot. In the MTC, my heart went out to her. She’s just been through a lot. Very street-wise. She told me this story, which I’ve mentioned before. Did you have bikers? She told me this story that, a male that had abused her when she was younger, that she had some biker friends, and they were going to go beat up on him, type thing. So she was for retribution. And she told me the same thing, but she couldn’t remember, she said she didn’t have any biker friends. And [Unintelligible] what is it, a story that you told way back when? --BYUPD: So this story was something that came out at the MTC, and not at this last meeting? --Bishop: Oh, yeah. No, way back when. I’m just trying to put it in context. She asked me if what she believes, I suspect she believes it. Is it true? I suspect it isn’t. Maybe my memory is fading. But brethren, as honest as I can be, that never happened. Absolutely. Unequivocally. --BYUPD: So you’re saying you have no memory of that at all? --Bishop: No, and I don’t think it was something I could have done. What happened is what I’ve told you. So does she believe it? I think she does? Is it right? I don’t, no, it’s not ‘think,’ I just can’t believe that. I know what happened. I couldn’t have forgotten that. I didn’t forget the other, why would I forget something. I’ve been as honest as I can be. --BYUPD: We appreciate you talking to us. [WRAPPING UP TALK FROM 59:04 to 1:03:20] Thanks Smac! Missed seeing you on here. You probably got burnt out here because of all the detail that went into your posts, so go easy on yourself! This is so helpful to many on here, you're the best!
webbles Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Exiled said: I agree with you that the confession part is what remains. But still, where do you get that Mr. Bishop probably didn't confess everything? I suspect this is where a desire to see something might be creeping into the mix. The fact is that we don't know what was confessed because the questioner cop didn't ask any follow up questions on this subject. That would be the subject of further inquiry. Also, speaking to cops and speaking to church leaders are two different matters. In the interview, he stated that he confessed about two things: viewing a sister missionary's breasts and rubbing the buttocks of another woman (I can't figure out if she was a sister missionary or just a former sister missionary). Based off how he explained those two acts to the police officer made me think that he would be downplaying those acts to his church leader.
Calm Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Exiled said: Again, what is the point of trying to get others to think that Mr. Bishop has dementia? This is where you go wrong. I am not trying to persuade anyone. I have been giving my opinion. I don’t post here to persuade people and this isn’t one of them. I have never believed people are that easily persuaded and my past experience tells me I am not successful at persuading, so why bother? I am always pleasantly surprised when someone says I have caused them to look at something a new way. I post here because I like to discuss ideas, my own and others. Since you start with this incorrect premise, the rest of your conclusions are invalid.
provoman Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 18 minutes ago, webbles said: In the interview, he stated that he confessed about two things: viewing a sister missionary's breasts and rubbing the buttocks of another woman (I can't figure out if she was a sister missionary or just a former sister missionary). Based off how he explained those two acts to the police officer made me think that he would be downplaying those acts to his church leader. “Every incident has been talked to a bishop,” Bishop told the police. “I’m not sure that the bishop heard the severity of it.”
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