BYU police of Joseph Bishop interview tape released

[provoman]

8 minutes ago, JulieM said:

And, that he discussed her breasts, asked to see them (which he did) and possibly touched her breasts (he’s not sure but he may have).  All because he’s a “natural man” and also he thought it would help his marriage to see her breasts. 

I’m wondering why you left those important details out?  That’s the abuse he’s admitting to, correct?

I was responding directly to ALarson about the videos provided by salt lake tribune

[JulieM]

9 minutes ago, provoman said:

I was responding directly to ALarson about the videos provided by salt lake tribune

And he was posting about the abuse that took place in that room (that Bishop describes in the videos provided.)  You left all of that out and it seemed odd.  Just sayin 😉

Edited June 18, 2019 by JulieM

[JulieM]

6 minutes ago, provoman said:

apparently Kutv has released something and rfm seems just overjoyed.

However, the video was leaked.

Who has claimed to have heard the audio...Mckenna Denson, so is she the source of the leak? And if she is the source of the leak, wouldn't we expect that Craig Vernon ALSO watched the interview and knew what Bishop said - and if Craig Vernon did, and this interview is the death blow to the Church in favor of Mckenna, why did Vernon remove himself from the case? 

 

Maybe because of how dishonest she’d been?  Maybe just to disassociate with her.

[Calm]

9 minutes ago, JulieM said:

And he was posting about the abuse that took place in that room (that Bishop describes in the videos provided.)  You left all of that out and it seemed odd.  Just sayin 😉

It hasn't already been discussed endlessly in this thread?   

[Calm]

9 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Maybe because of how dishonest she’d been?  Maybe just to disassociate with her.

The judge would surely need more than that to allow him to walk.

[Calm]

Someone was kind enough to transcribe the clips on Reddit:

Quote

Interviewer: And but you said you took care of it ecclesiastically

Joseph Bishop: Yes

Interviewer: Through a bishop or somebody else

Joseph Bishop: Bishop

Interviewer: Somebody higher than that? Was it a Stake president. Was it while you were a mission president. Or at what point in your life did you try to make that right.

Joseph Bishop: Right away

Interviewer: Were you still the MTC president when you...

Joseph Bishop: Yes

Interviewer: Do you remember who you talked to about it?

Joseph Bishop: I don't.

Interviewer: Did you stay on as president while you...

Joseph Bishop: yes

Interviewer: So you continued on with your duties as the MTC president

Joseph Bishop: <<affirmative nod>>

Interviewer: Okay

Quote

Joseph Bishop: Bottom line <-> she'd had and she couldn't remember this and this the <-> I don't understand this but uh she'd had she'd gone to umm church somewhere and got uh an operation the church paid for someway to have breast enhancement which led to the what... 

Interviewer: Was this... 

Joseph Bishop: And I know that to be true...

Interviewer: Was this before or after..

Joseph Bishop: It was during this whole process

Interviewer: It while she was at the MTC or?

Joseph Bishop: She was still at the MTC

Interviewer: So she had a breast augmentation while at the MTC

Joseph Bishop: Prior to 

Interviewer: Prior to

Joseph Bishop: <-> before mmmhmm prior to the MTC 

Interviewer: Okay 

Joseph Bishop: And and this I feel comfortable I talked to her about it and she just laughed that this was not the case because a man a somebody a church official called and he was upset that the church had paid for this did I ignore this kind of thing and did I tried to defend her because it was one already done. I don't know how you take that away. 

Interviewer: So then what was your involvement what what at what point it sounds like there was a lot of drama around her while she was at the MTC. 

Joseph Bishop: Mmmhmm

Interviewer: What umm so what led to the point where you know you got involved with her 

Joseph Bishop: My my marital life wasn't going well so there was that kind of intrigue on the side. So I had my office was sometimes very busy so I found a place where I could go and do some do my work without too much interruption it was kind of used to be in I don't think it's in a basement but it was the back end of the MTC. Storage kind of place and I used to go there quietly to to work. 

Interviewer: In the main admin building? 

Joseph Bishop: It was the end of the admin building looking north 

Interviewer: So you went to the north end of the kind of by the cafeteria?

Joseph Bishop: Mmmhmmm

Interviewer: Okay

Joseph Bishop: Yeah at the end of the cafeteria

Interviewer: Okay

Joseph Bishop: Smelly place. It was near the cafeteria and all the well it wasn't too smelly but anyway I don't remember how whether I invited her or she just came and umm we we talked about I talked about and she talked about I can't remember but the breast augmentation I got I wanted to I wanted to see her breasts how they operation etcetera. Couple reasons. One just being the natural man that was one thing. The other thing was I thought maybe if that would maybe be a good thing for my marriage I don't why I thought that because my wife was not you know so it was probably the natural man more than anything else but she

Interviewer: Maybe exaggerated because of the struggles that happened to your wife 

Joseph Bishop: Probably but I don't want to blame that I I have to take responsibilities for me and I'm just as much as I can as best I can bringing up my recollection of that

Interviewer: Okay

Joseph Bishop: Anyway she she uh exposed herself that way and I saw her breasts I don't remember touching them I might have I just don't remember any more of than that. This is the part that she doesn't remember. She accuses she accuses me of trying to rape her I don't have any any reco** recollection anything like that she said I tore her blouse her something like that. That I that didn't happen in in my mind. 

Interviewer: What kind of physical contact happened in that room that you remember? 

Joseph Bishop: That's I'm telling you all that I remember about it I don't remember kissing hugging abracing embracing rather anything like that. She has a different story on this and I don't you know he said she said but the point that I'm making it was not appropriate to even be with her in that room she intrigued me because she was because she was experienced and I could talk to her about my lack of uh fulfillment in the marriage. 

Some typos are how I heard it pronounced, others I couldn't decipher and replaced with <->, and in any others I was acting as a man.

 

Edited June 18, 2019 by Calm

[ALarson]

15 minutes ago, provoman said:

apparently Kutv has released something and rfm seems just overjoyed.

However, the video was leaked.

Who has claimed to have heard the audio...Mckenna Denson.

So is she the source of the leak? And if she is the source of the leak, wouldn't we expect that Craig Vernon ALSO watched the interview and knew what Bishop said - and if Craig Vernon did, and this interview is the death blow to the Church in favor of Mckenna, why did Vernon remove himself from the case? 

 

Here's this:

https://kutv.com/news/local/former-mtc-president-says-church-leaders-knew-of-sexual-indiscretions-with-missionaries

Quote

 

Two women have accused Joseph Bishop, who’s now in his 80s, of misconduct when he was president of the Missionary Training Center in Provo in the 1980s. In 2017, he told BYU police during an interview at his home that he confessed to a bishop — to asking to see a missionary’s breasts and to giving another missionary a back rub.

One of the women, McKenna Denson, said Bishop raped her in 1984.

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“She exposed herself that way, and I saw her breasts,” Bishop said. “I don’t remember touching them. I might have. I just don’t remember any more than that.”

“She accused me of trying to rape her,” he added. “I don’t have any, any recollection, anything like that.”

The statute of limitations had expired by the time the Utah County Attorney’s Office received the case last year, and no charges were filed.

The 2017 recording, which was first brought to light by The Salt Lake Tribune, is an hour-long interview after police spoke to the two women making allegations.

The newspaper has released two video clips of the conversation, and 2News is releasing the entire audio file. (2News, the Tribune and other groups have been fighting in court for the recording’s release because BYUPD has refused to provide it as a public record. The case is ongoing.)

“Every incident has been talked to a bishop,” Bishop told police. “I’m not sure that the bishop heard the severity of it.”

 

"Two women"?  

And:

Quote

 

Denson said she told Carlos Asay, general authority for the church, about what happened to her. More recently, she recorded a conversation with Bishop that he referenced in his interview with police.

“She said, ‘Did Elder Asay ever approach you?’” Bishop said in 2017, “and I said, ‘No, he never did,’ and then I got to thinking later — that, that someone had called me that probably came from Elder Asay’s office, and I had told them about what I’m telling you and that I had taken care of it ecclesiastically.”

Bishop’s words may contradict last year’s statement from the church, saying “We have no record of an interview between Asay and this individual,” referring to Denson.

 

 

[ALarson]

10 minutes ago, Calm said:

It hasn't already been discussed endlessly in this thread?   

Come on....it is ridiculous that he obviously left that part out (regarding asking to see her breasts and maybe touching them too).  We were discussing the abuse!

Provoman had to have known I was specifically referring to the abuse that Bishop described and not referring to: "bishop explaining what he remembers about her and his second office."   I supplied the link and time stamp to specifically discuss the abuse (which he conveniently avoided mentioning).  

Anyway....moving on....

I'm not sure what to think about the new information posted.  Thoughts?

 

 

Edited June 18, 2019 by ALarson

[provoman]

3 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Here's this:

https://kutv.com/news/local/former-mtc-president-says-church-leaders-knew-of-sexual-indiscretions-with-missionaries

"Two women"?  

And:

The Asay part is interesting, as he does not know who he talked to; and it would have been in 1987.

I have to wonder why the media, with their professional editors, are withholding so much. I also wonder why Jessica Miller of the Salt Lake Tribune, did not ask Mckenna if she had ever seen the video.

[provoman]

4 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Come on....it is ridiculous that he obviously left that part out (regarding asking to see her breasts and maybe touching them too).  We were discussing the abuse!

Provoman had to have known I was specifically referring to the abuse that Bishop described and not referring to: "bishop explaining what he remembers about her and his second office."   I supplied the link and time stamp to specifically discuss the abuse (which he conveniently avoided mentioning).  

 

 

 You and I are already aware of what is on the video segments. I shouldn't be accused to of some sort of conspiracy for not repeating what you I are both aware of, when a general description more than suffices.

[Calm]

Quote

“I’m not sure that the bishop heard the severity of it.

So it's the bishop's fault, not his, it wasn't seen as severe?  Seriously?

[ALarson]

6 minutes ago, provoman said:

 You and I are already aware of what is on the video segments. I shouldn't be accused to of some sort of conspiracy for not repeating what you I are both aware of, when a general description more than suffices.

Then maybe don't leave the abuse part out of your comment when it was the specific part that we were discussing and had questions about.   

Not a big deal....just sort of strange to do (and not relevant to our discussion, IMO).

 

Edited June 18, 2019 by ALarson

[provoman]

6 minutes ago, Calm said:

So it's the bishop's fault, not his, it wasn't seen as severe?  Seriously?

noticed that too, which then tends to go towards your hypothetical suggestion of what his confession might have been. 

[Calm]

One hour total interview, so missing 50 minutes worth.

[provoman]

Quote

I have reason to believe that at the end of this interview Joseph Bishop recalls he was contacted by Carlos Asay's office regarding McKenna's allegation to her YSA bishop.

This was posted by the profile known to be rfm, on Sunday at 2pm on a different forum.

How could rfm "have reason to beleive"? Is he in possession of a copy of the audio - which would have been "leaked" to him, because BYU PD has refused to provide a copy to him? Or has he discussed the video with someone who has seen the video. RFM has interviewed Denson and separately discussed at length various aspects related to the legal case in podcasts.

[Calm]

23 minutes ago, provoman said:

noticed that too, which then tends to go towards your hypothetical suggestion of what his confession might have been. 

Just to be clear, my hypothetical...I would consider that the minimum of a confession and if he did confess, I suspect he said more.  In no way am I claiming that is what he likely said.

I am more prone to think he didn't confess until forced to by .Denson.  She comes across as a capable, intelligent, and forceful once she gets going woman and he likely had no knowledge of her criminal background (I am thinking if she participated in anything criminal prior to her mission and the Church knew about it, that in combination with her having gotten pregnant or rather how she got pregnant, she wouldn't have been cleared for a mission) outside the threat made to kill him in 2010.

Bishop had no reason to think that Denson would not be believed if she accused him at the time of the interviews (Greg Bishop wouldn't get the dossier until later).  Chances are he was aware of the MeToo movement which was still going strong iirc in December 2018 though perhaps past its peak.  Makes sense to me for him to take a cautious 'give them some to satisfy rather than complete denial' approach...especially useful if he can convince the police they have the whole story and won't need to go looking for other witnesses.  He knows he was accused by two women in 2010.  Probably remembers the details of those accusations.  Probably figures since it is a BYU Police they know or will hear of those accusations.  So he figures to include them in his confession and hope that resolves everything.

He knows his memory is crap in some ways (he refers to it when Denson's interview is just a casual discussion about his life in the beginning).  If he is aware enough in the first interview (drugs from surgery and possible dementia might have impact on impulse control at least, which could explaining the wandering, at times random stories), he needs to set things up so if he slips or says something she knows is wrong, he has wiggle room, but he gives enough she stops yelling and swearing at him.  And then he gets into the attention and goes off on his Bishop as hero or suffering servant stories.

After the interview he remembers enough details to discuss it with his son, the lawyer who is present for the police interview iirc, I bet (he remembers she asked him about Asay) and works out a story that makes him look better...at least to his family, likely with his son's unintentional help (watches to see what his son reacts to in order to craft his story).

That he remembers the detail accurately about Asay from a two hour highly emotional discussion means to me if he has dementia, it is likely mild.  I may change my mind after watching the full hour.  I would like to see if there is any physical difference over the hour, like he is tiring and how consistent he is.  If he isn't contradicting himself, making random comments, or screwing up easy timeline (twice saying he confessed to Wells about Denson prior to the MTC calling) as he was in the first interview, then I likely will conclude it was more drugs and shock than dementia that resulted in the more bizarre moments of the Denson interview.

[Calm]

30 minutes ago, provoman said:

This was posted by the profile known to be rfm, on Sunday at 2pm on a different forum.

How could rfm "have reason to beleive"? Is he in possession of a copy of the audio - which would have been "leaked" to him, because BYU PD has refused to provide a copy to him? Or has he discussed the video with someone who has seen the video. RFM has interviewed Denson and separately discussed at length various aspects related to the legal case in podcasts.

RFM says he was suing for the unredacted version iirc.  Maybe he hadn't gotten his copy yet (assuming it was going to be released to him to him as well as others mentioned if he is not the lawyer mentioned), but was in communication with the other parties and was told some of the highlights.

He could certainly have been told about the interview by Denson, which would explain the buttocks info 

[provoman]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

RFM says he was suing for the unredacted version iirc.  Maybe he hadn't gotten his copy yet (assuming it was going to be released to him to him as well as others mentioned if he is not the lawyer mentioned), but was in communication with the other parties and was told some of the highlights.

He could certainly have been told about the interview by Denson, which would explain the buttocks info 

He knew the buttock info from a less redacted copy of the written report, he discussed that in a podcast many months ago.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, ALarson said:

Come on....it is ridiculous that he obviously left that part out (regarding asking to see her breasts and maybe touching them too).  We were discussing the abuse!

He posts this in his previous post above the one you are complaining  about:

Quote

Neither of the two videos make certain what Bishop confessed to. In neither video does Bishop state "I confessed to requesting a missionary expose herself to me" or "I confessed to grabbing a missionaries buttock." 

So it seems strange to me to suggest he is "obviously" leaving that part out of the conversation even if he left it out of the next post as there was no benefit to leaving it out besides saving effort typing about it again.

I realize his not posting is not part of the conversation, but I don't like people to be criticized for misunderstandings, so pointing it out.

Edited June 18, 2019 by Calm

[Calm]

45 minutes ago, provoman said:

He knew the buttock info from a less redacted copy of the written report, he discussed that in a podcast many months ago.

Right, Denson could have supplied the additional info in the past or more recently.  Maybe Denson had a copy redacted by her or her lawyer.  I would think the lawyer would want the part of Bishop confessing to his bishop and not being immediately released in his calling withheld as it provided pretty the only leverage for money from the Church we have seen so far outside possible victims, imo.

Edited June 18, 2019 by Calm

[ALarson]

19 minutes ago, Calm said:

He posts this in his previous post above the one you are complaining  about:

So it seems strange to me to suggest he is leaving that part out of the conversation even if he left it out of the next post.

I realize his not posting is not part of the conversation, but I don't like people to be criticized for misunderstandings, so pointing it out.

He was asking me what I thought the word "it" referred to (that's a very specific question).  So, I gave him the link to the video and the timestamp, so he could see the abuse that Bishop described (which was what  I was referencing).  

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/71962-byu-police-of-joseph-bishop-interview-tape-released/?do=findComment&comment=1209912126

He ignored the part of the interview discussing Bishop asking Denson to expose her breasts for him (and possibly touching them) and responded with this:

Quote

starting at 2:10 mark, is bishop explaining what he remembers about her and his second office. 

So, he avoided mentioning what Bishop stated right after this (the abuse).  

Once again, not a big deal....it's just difficult to have an honest discussion when someone does that. 

But, I'm moving on as I think I've made my point.  

Edited June 18, 2019 by ALarson

[ALarson]

I was just reading some of the comments over on the other board about this.  Someone mentions "McKenna's new lawyers".  Has she retained someone new?

[jpv]

On 6/17/2019 at 12:29 PM, Hagoth said:

I don't check in much, but since my normal homebase is down for repairs, I thought I'd stop by.  Concerning some aspects of this thread, whether or not the above quote is true, as far as I know neither Brother Volluz nor Brother RFM have publicly made that connection, and I have a pretty good idea that neither of those identities would appreciate people doxing them online. Also, it's listed as one of the banned behaviors of this board: "• Posting personal or identifying information about others"

You realize SLTrib outed Consig, not the many of us here who know who he is. 

[ALarson]

8 minutes ago, jpv said:

You realize SLTrib outed Consig, not the many of us here who know who he is. 

That's not exactly true.  Maybe those in the know could connect the dots, but I'm one who wouldn't have had any idea from reading this (one mention of his name in the SLTrib article):

Quote

The LDS Church-owned university has since filed three separate lawsuits trying to keep the interview secret, after the State Records Committee ruled last year that it should be public. Those suits are filed against the three parties that have requested the recording: KUTV-Channel 2, the transparency website MormonLeaks and Washington-based lawyer Corbin Volluz. Those lawsuits remain pending.

Was revealing this:

Quote

Corbin Volluz is RadioFreeMormon.

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/71962-byu-police-of-joseph-bishop-interview-tape-released/?do=findComment&comment=1209911826

 

Maybe he doesn't care, but I imagine there are many who would call this doxxing (and they'd be right, IMO).

Edited June 18, 2019 by ALarson

[ALarson]

The entire interview (minus a few redactions of victim's names) has been posted now by KUTV.  Here it is on Youtube (or look at the bottom of the article for the video):

 

Edited June 18, 2019 by ALarson