ALarson Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, Calm said: No, Leavitt says she came and he did nothing. We both agree if that was the case, there is liability there. I agree. Is there any reason to believe that Leavitt isn't telling the truth?
Calm Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, ALarson said: Hasn't Leavitt also stated she came to him to report the abuse after it took place? (I need to review what he stated....I'll look for it....) Yes. I am talking about him saying the abuse occurred and confessing to it. He denied everything in 2010. He changes his story to .Denson herself. He admits to molesting with a "yes" but can't remember. He tells Denson he talked to no church leaders about it when she asks him if Asay or anyone contacted him. She cuts him off in his "let me tell you about what I remember..." so we get no details from him about what happened in his secondary office. He changes his story again in the police interview. PS: editing past posts to be clearer... Edited June 18, 2019 by Calm
Calm Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, ALarson said: I agree. Is there any reason to believe that Leavitt isn't telling the truth? Denson's account contradicts him, but that is it. Rest of the known facts match perfectly with him telling the truth, imo. 1
ALarson Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Calm said: Yes. I am talking about him saying the abuse occurred and confessing to it. He denied everything in 2010. He changes his story to .Denson herself. He tells Denson he talked to no church leaders about it when she asks him if Asay or anyone contacted him. He changes his story again in the police interview. Ok. I don't think it's odd that he would have tried to deny it in 2010. But he appears to be honest with the police and maybe felt he had to be. I honestly believe what he states is what happened. It's the rape that I feel is in question. And Denson's credibility at this point (IMO) is zero. But we do have Leavitt backing up the fact that she came to him to report abuse (from Bishop) and now we also have Bishop's statements of what he confessed to at the time (on these tapes). I honestly believe the communication broke down between church leaders. Bishop should have been removed as the MTC president. Who knows if there were others that he abused (he's even named at least one other, iirc). Once again though, hindsight is 20/20. Edited June 18, 2019 by ALarson
Calm Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 30 minutes ago, provoman said: The interview video, in my opinion, is deliberately void of verifiable context. I agree. No name is given for the bishop he allegedly confessed to, one would have to have records to find that out I am guessing. Or was in his ward and have a good memory. Nothing was said about him reporting to MTC authorities.
Calm Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, ALarson said: honestly believe what he states is what happened Why do you believe his claims to have confessed when you don't think it odd he denied it in 2010?
ALarson Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Calm said: Why do you believe his claims to have confessed when you don't think it odd he denied it in 2010? Just going from watching the interview. I think he's telling the truth to the police who are interviewing him. I guess everyone who's interested should watch the videos and get their own impressions. I personally believe he should not have remained in the position of serving as the MTC president when we learn that he states he confessed to what he did (with Denson and possibly another sister missionary), when Denson states she went to Leavitt to report the abuse, and Leavitt states she came to him too. But as far as the rape or criminal charges, I'm not seeing that. Edited June 18, 2019 by ALarson
Calm Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, ALarson said: Just going from watching the interview. I think he's telling the truth to the police who are interviewing him. I guess everyone who's interested should watch the videos and get their own impressions. I personally believe he should not have remained in the position of serving as the MTC president when we learn that he states he confessed to what he did (with Denson and possibly another sister missionary), when Denson states she went to Leavitt to report the abuse, and Leavitt states she came to him too. But as far as the rape or criminal charges, I'm not seeing that. Is it a video in the second clip or a photo with audio? I think he is a liar with an established pattern of shifting responsibility for his actions (wanting to help his wife and marriage as an excuse for looking at a breast enhancement, being in a loveless marriage and needing to talk about that to excuse his sharing inappropriate stuff with Denson, being accused of being too short as a kid setting him up for a sexual addiction, loveless marriage leading to him sexual fantasizing, his second wife's hangups due to her cheating husband causing their divorce). Edited June 18, 2019 by Calm
ALarson Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, Calm said: Is it a video in the second clip or a photo with audio? It's in both of them (and I watched/listened to both). One thing I saw on the other forum (it came up in a search for this topic) is the consiglieri posted that he has reason to believe that at the end of this interview, Bishop states he was contacted by Carlos Asay's office regarding McKenna's allegation to her YSA bishop. Now, that would be interesting to know. Also, does this mean we possibly don't have the entire interview tape released yet (at least publicly)?
Calm Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, ALarson said: It's in both of them (and I watched/listened to both). One thing I saw on the other forum (it came up in a search for this topic) is the consiglieri posted that he has reason to believe that at the end of this interview, Bishop states he was contacted by Carlos Asay's office regarding McKenna's allegation to her YSA bishop. Now, that would be interesting to know. Also, does this mean we possibly don't have the entire interview tape released yet (at least publicly)? Weird, my tech shows the second video as a still, but .I can hear audio. If Bishop was contacted by Asay's office, he lied about it to Denson. Two cases of admitting he lied. I don't see any reason given as to why we should believe him now. It seems very convenient for him when he talks about confession given. And he says nothing was done time after time. Does not talk about doing anything but feeling bad. Does that sound like the aftermath of confessions of repeated sin to you? The clips shown showed 8 minutes worth iirc. I looked for other clips on YouTube, but nothing came up. The interview was obviously longer. Edited June 18, 2019 by Calm
ALarson Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Calm said: Weird, my tech shows the second video as a still, but .I can hear audio. If Bishop was contacted by Asay's office, he lied about it to Denson. Two cases of admitting he lied. I don't see any reason given as to why we should believe him now. I can understand why denials and lies were told. I can also understand why he came clean and was honest with the police later. I actually think all of that is pretty natural considering the circumstances (most that sexually abuse initially deny and lie). However, I do agree that both Denson and Bishop have credibility issues. Edited June 18, 2019 by ALarson
Calm Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 Just now, ALarson said: can also understand why he came clean and was honest with the police Why?
provoman Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) 52 minutes ago, ALarson said: Here's the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7t-ddjuxzg Start listening at around 2:10. He talks about the room where they were alone together (he and Denson), how they discussed her breasts and he wanted to see and touch them "just being the natural man" and "I thought maybe that would be a good thing for my marriage" (but mainly because of him being a "natural man more than anything else"). He denies it went past just looking and possibly touching, but he does admit this took place. He also states that he confessed to his church leaders and remained in his position as the MTC President: Neither of the two videos make certain what Bishop confessed to. In neither video does Bishop state "I confessed to requesting a missionary expose herself to me" or "I confessed to grabbing a missionaries buttock." Police: and you said you took care of it ecclesiastically **What is "it", why did sltrib leave out the context.** Bishop: yes (cross talk, bishop says "Both cases") machine gunning of questions from police, Bishop says he talked to his Bishop, when asked when he took care of it he responds "right away" Salt Lake Tribune left out the preceeding context, it is not as though sltribune could not have posted the full video or even longer segments One important note: Police: Did you stay on as President after you (officer stops speaking) Bishop: yes Police: So you continued on with your duties as the MTC President, ok (video ends) What was the officer asking about? What did Bishop say Yes to? Edited June 18, 2019 by provoman
ALarson Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 Just now, Calm said: Why? I think at that point, he knew he'd been found out and it would be futile to continue lying or denying. Just my opinion.... Do we know when the other victim came forward? How much do we know about her?
ALarson Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, provoman said: Police: and you said you took care of it ecclesiastically **What is "it", why did sltrib leave out the context.** Bishop: yes (cross talk, bishop says "Both cases") machine gunning of questions from police, Bishop says he talked to his Bishop, when asked when he took care of it he responds "right away" Salt Lake Tribune left out the preceeding context, it is not as though sltribune could not have posted the full video or even longer segments One important note: Police: Did you stay on as President after you (officer stops speaking) Bishop: yes Police: So you continued on with your duties as the MTC President, ok (video ends) What was the officer asking about? What did Bishop say Yes to? The "It" would be the abuse they were there to question him about (the reason for their visit). And, you didn't post Bishop's answer to the last question: Quote “Mhhmm,” Bishop responds in the affirmative. Listen to the second video....that's where he specifically states what he did with Denson when he was alone with her. (I put the time stamp in my last post for you if that helps). ETA: Here it is again: Quote Start listening at around 2:10. He talks about the room where they were alone together (he and Denson), how they discussed her breasts and he wanted to see and touch them "just being the natural man" and "I thought maybe that would be a good thing for my marriage" (but mainly because of him being a "natural man more than anything else"). He denies it went past just looking and possibly touching, but he does admit this took place. He also states that he confessed to his church leaders and remained in his position as the MTC President: Edited June 18, 2019 by ALarson
Calm Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, ALarson said: I think at that point, he knew he'd been found out and it would be futile to continue lying or denying. Just my opinion.... Do we know when the other victim came forward? How much do we know about her? 2010. Nothing known save she received counseling afterwards. I just can't get past blaming a dead man who can't defend himself on the word of two admitted liars, one known for fraud (and it works out as much more money imo if Asay dropped the ball rather than Leavitt) and one who,is making excuses for himself right and left, especially appealing to the "I confessed and my sins were forgiven" routine, absolving him of actually having to do anything or sacrifice anything to even change, let alone provide restitution. It is all too convenient for him in my view. Edited June 18, 2019 by Calm
Calm Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, ALarson said: Listen to the second video....that's where he specifically states what he did with Denson when he was alone with her. (I put the time stamp in my last post for you if that helps). ETA: Here it is again: Provoman is saying he didn't provide detail on what he specifically told his leaders/bishop if I understand him correctly. He could have said "I was alone in a room with a sister missionary" for example. We assume he would confess to all the truth, but it shouldn't be seen as a given imo. Edited June 18, 2019 by Calm 1
ALarson Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Calm said: Provoman is saying he didn't provide detail on what he specifically told his leaders if I understand him correctly. He says he confessed to "it" and also describes what he did with Denson. Do we know the order of the two tapes (in the SLT)? Which one came first? If it was after he'd just described what he'd done with Denson while alone with her, the "it" is pretty obvious, IMO. Even if the tapes are in different order, the police were specifically there to discuss "it" (the abuse). (I've got to be off of here for awhile....I'll check in later 👍)
Calm Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, ALarson said: He says he confessed to "it" and also describes what he did with Denson. Do we know the order of the two tapes (in the SLT)? Which one came first? If it was after he'd just described what he'd done with Denson while alone with her, the "it" is pretty obvious, IMO. Even if the tapes are in different order, the police were specifically there to discuss "it" (the abuse). (I've got to be off of here for awhile....I'll check in later 👍) I have got to go too. I think I would prefer to wait for a more complete video to analyze it more as I am just repeating stuff now (and why was it withheld if it was so major to be made public?, that bugs me though I get the Trib having to cover its costs at least and releasing it piecemeal for more news helps do that). Edited June 18, 2019 by Calm
provoman Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, Calm said: Provoman is saying he didn't provide detail on what he specifically told his leaders/bishop if I understand him correctly. He could have said "I was alone in a room with a sister missionary" for example. We assume he would confess to all the truth, but it shouldn't be seen as a given imo. Yes, that is my point. Hypothetically if his "right away" confession was something akin too "I was alone in a room with a sister missionary" could that explain why he was not released? 1
provoman Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, ALarson said: He says he confessed to "it" and also describes what he did with Denson. Do we know the order of the two tapes (in the SLT)? Which one came first? If it was after he'd just described what he'd done with Denson while alone with her, the "it" is pretty obvious, IMO. Even if the tapes are in different order, the police were specifically there to discuss "it" (the abuse). (I've got to be off of here for awhile....I'll check in later 👍) 1 minute video is confession to "it" 6 minute video, starting at 2:10 mark, is bishop explaining what he remembers about her and his second office. My point has been that we do not know what he confessed. Edited June 18, 2019 by provoman 3
Robert F. Smith Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 2 hours ago, ALarson said: From what I understand....at this point it's just a question of whether he should have remained in the position of MTC president. If this truly was made known to church leaders, he should have been released immediately, IMO. But as far as a crime being reported, I don't see any evidence this was done that early on. (I may have missed something though.) That's my understanding as well. 1
Robert F. Smith Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 2 hours ago, provoman said: Perhaps your previous post need to end with /s (sarcasm) While I did think it out of character for you to disparage the Priesthood leaders, you seemed so solid in your conviction of their failures. Then I must have been wrong, right? If nothing was reported, how could the leaders be in error? There is nothing sarcastic about that.
JulieM Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, provoman said: 1 minute video is confession to "it" 6 minute video, starting at 2:10 mark, is bishop explaining what he remembers about her and his second office. And, that he discussed her breasts, asked to see them (which he did) and possibly touched her breasts (he’s not sure but he may have). All because he’s a “natural man” and also he thought it would help his marriage to see her breasts. I’m wondering why you left those important details out? That’s the abuse he’s admitting to, correct? Edited June 18, 2019 by JulieM
provoman Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) apparently Kutv has released something and rfm seems just overjoyed. However, the video was leaked. Who has claimed to have heard the audio...Mckenna Denson. So is she the source of the leak? And if she is the source of the leak, wouldn't we expect that Craig Vernon ALSO watched the interview and knew what Bishop said - and if Craig Vernon did, and this interview is the death blow to the Church in favor of Mckenna, why did Vernon remove himself from the case? Edited June 18, 2019 by provoman 1
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