Tacenda Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 7 hours ago, Calm said: Why would you assume you would get a larger one if you didn't ask? If I was the bishop, I would assume the people called to lead an organization would have the best info on what was needed and if they didn't ask, I would assume they didn't need it. Did they ask the Bishop for more or just figured it wouldn't be a big deal? I know a lot of leaders in better off areas just assume members are okay with helping out on dinners. Most ward dinners in my experience pay for meat out of budget and everything else is provided by pot luck. Calm, you might have missed it, I said we probably didn't not ask, I'm sure. Also, our budgets are according to the ward's attendance, and they count certain months of the year, that one of the techs thought unfair, because it was a certain time that more members are either on vacation or some other reason he mentioned, but can't remember, I read it on LDSTech earlier today, and I do remember awhile back hearing of this system. I think it's lame. Hurts those that do pay their tithing, and like one of the comments mention, sometimes it only amounts to $2.00 per RS sister as far as a the RS budget.
Calm Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 25 minutes ago, Tacenda said: t, I said we probably didn't not ask, You are right, I missed the “not”. My apologies
Popular Post rchorse Posted February 4, 2019 Popular Post Posted February 4, 2019 One commenter to the article Tacenda posted said, "Money flows to the central church. It does not flow back." Yeah, all those temples and chapels just magically appear and the full-time employees of the church all work for minimum wage. 🙄 Are people really so ignorant about what it costs to buy land for and construct a church building or a temple or how expensive landscape maintenance can be? I get that the church doesn't publish those costs, but a quick look at similar commercial construction and operating costs for organizations of similar size should make it clear that a whole lot of money is flowing back from the central church. Is it flowing back to rich Utah wards? Probably not. Is it flowing back to support the church in developing nations and areas where the church is not as strong? Clearly, just based on the number of temples, chapels and other resources going to those areas. If you don't trust the church to use tithing funds responsibly, don't pay tithing. I don't get the mentality that trusts the church to administer the ordinances necessary for salvation, but draws the line at the lack of transparency with finances. And if you don't trust the church to administer the ordinances necessary for salvation, why would you care if you can get a temple recommend or not? Or is it just that some people have a need to find fault with the church no matter what it does? 6
Tacenda Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, rchorse said: One commenter to the article Tacenda posted said, "Money flows to the central church. It does not flow back." Yeah, all those temples and chapels just magically appear and the full-time employees of the church all work for minimum wage. 🙄 Are people really so ignorant about what it costs to buy land for and construct a church building or a temple or how expensive landscape maintenance can be? I get that the church doesn't publish those costs, but a quick look at similar commercial construction and operating costs for organizations of similar size should make it clear that a whole lot of money is flowing back from the central church. Is it flowing back to rich Utah wards? Probably not. Is it flowing back to support the church in developing nations and areas where the church is not as strong? Clearly, just based on the number of temples, chapels and other resources going to those areas. If you don't trust the church to use tithing funds responsibly, don't pay tithing. I don't get the mentality that trusts the church to administer the ordinances necessary for salvation, but draws the line at the lack of transparency with finances. And if you don't trust the church to administer the ordinances necessary for salvation, why would you care if you can get a temple recommend or not? Or is it just that some people have a need to find fault with the church no matter what it does? The tier of paid workers is those that are mission presidents on up to President Nelson. And everything in between. When the church wants to venture into the business world, I think they should take into account the bottom tier's sacrifice and allow more in the budget for them. They are the backbone, and it would be nice. Instead the church discontinues pagaents and programs now too, sucking the life out. One day it will regret it. Edited February 4, 2019 by Tacenda
rchorse Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 12 minutes ago, Tacenda said: The tier of paid workers is those that are mission presidents on up to President Nelson. And everything in between. When the church wants to venture into the business world, I think they should take into account the bottom tier's sacrifice and allow more in the budget for them. They are the backbone, and it would be nice. Instead the church discontinues pagaents and programs now too, sucking the life out. One day it will regret it. It's not just mission presidents and general authorities getting paid. The church has thousands of paid employees around the world, including translators, curriculum development, accountants, programmers, logistics personnel, people who sew garments and baptismal jumpsuits, and so on. Those manuals that get sent out every year also cost a lot of money and are written, edited, printed and shipped by paid church employees. It's not free to program apps and websites or make church videos, etc. Running a website and database like FamilySearch alone has to cost millions each year. It's one thing to disagree with where the money is being spent. I can see how reasonable people would choose to spend money elsewhere, if they were in charge. But to claim, as that commenter I quoted did, that nothing is flowing back from church headquarters to the local units/members around the world is ridiculous. I see ample evidence of where the funds are flowing back without having to look very hard. 3
Popular Post ksfisher Posted February 4, 2019 Popular Post Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tacenda said: The tier of paid workers is those that are mission presidents on up to President Nelson. And everything in between. When the church wants to venture into the business world, I think they should take into account the bottom tier's sacrifice and allow more in the budget for them. They are the backbone, and it would be nice. Instead the church discontinues pagaents and programs now too, sucking the life out. One day it will regret it. The majority of a wards expenses do not come out of the ward budget. Consider who pays for the following: Electricity Heating in the winter AC in the summer Parking lot snow removal Grounds maintenance (lawn, trimming trees, etc) Cleaning supplies Building maintenance (interior things like plumbing, exterior paint, rain gutters, etc) Computer equipment Televisions, copiers and the maintenance for them Graffiti removal (about every other month we seem to get some) Elevator maintenance (our went down on a Saturday once, it was fixed that day and ready for Sunday, how much do elevator repairmen charge on a Saturday?) I'm sure there are other costs that I've missed. The point being that much, much more of individual members tithing flows back to the ward than just what we see in the ward budget Edited February 4, 2019 by ksfisher 6
MustardSeed Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 Sorry to be ignorant, but mission presidents on up get paid?
ksfisher Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: Sorry to be ignorant, but mission presidents on up get paid? They receive a stipend. Otherwise they could not afford to leave their jobs and homes behind and dedicate themselves to serving full time. I guess it could be looked at as pay, but the point of the money is to allow the person to serve the Lord full time and not have to continue working in the private sector. Edited February 4, 2019 by ksfisher 2
MustardSeed Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 I knew about stipend but I don’t see that as getting paid. Ok thanks 🙏
Maestrophil Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 For me, the amount has to hurt me a little - if whatever justification I am using to pay my tithing makes it so that it seems easy to do, I feel like I am not paying enough. One of the great blessings I feel comes from tithing - even though it is often a painful blessing - is that I learn to become more free from my love for money and having lots of comfort. I personally pay on my net, and it is hard, because there are times I feel guilty for not paying on gross. But on the whole, I still feel honest answering the TR questions about tithing paying on my net and adding where I can. But I am not concerned what my neighbor pays. I suppose, as other posters have stared here, I have covenanted to give ALL I have, should it be needed. Tithing is just my training wheels. 1
MustardSeed Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 Just now, Maestrophil said: For me, the amount has to hurt me a little - if whatever justification I am using to pay my tithing makes it so that it seems easy to do, I feel like I am not paying enough. One of the great blessings I feel comes from tithing - even though it is often a painful blessing - is that I learn to become more free from my love for money and having lots of comfort. I personally pay on my net, and it is hard, because there are times I feel guilty for not paying on gross. But on the whole, I still feel honest answering the TR questions about tithing paying on my net and adding where I can. But I am not concerned what my neighbor pays. I suppose, as other posters have stared here, I have covenanted to give ALL I have, should it be needed. Tithing is just my training wheels. This is how I see it. It really really hurt last year because we are now bumped to a hideous tax bracket and we are Grossers at my husbands insistence. But I use gratitude as an extremely effective tool for happiness. It seriously works. I think of very little as being mine so tithing supports that philosophy. I really do think that works for me. For what it’s worth. 3
ksfisher Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Tacenda said: the church discontinues pagaents and programs now too, Which programs are being discontinued? And were those programs central to the mission of the church? I've been to maybe 2 pageants in my life. They were nice, but I can't say they've had any impact in my life.
Tacenda Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 1 hour ago, MustardSeed said: This is how I see it. It really really hurt last year because we are now bumped to a hideous tax bracket and we are Grossers at my husbands insistence. But I use gratitude as an extremely effective tool for happiness. It seriously works. I think of very little as being mine so tithing supports that philosophy. I really do think that works for me. For what it’s worth. When are the church leaders going to hurt, do they pay tithing? When are they going to skip the extravagances in certain areas, such as Christmas concerts hiring stars and overpriced chandeliers vases etc.? Not directed to you but how in the world can we call nearly $10,000 a month a stipend!? Just asking for more in the budgets in wards, that's all!
Jeanne Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Tacenda said: When are the church leaders going to hurt, do they pay tithing? When are they going to skip the extravagances in certain areas, such as Christmas concerts hiring stars and overpriced chandeliers vases etc.? Not directed to you but how in the world can we call nearly $10,000 a month a stipend!? Just asking for more in the budgets in wards, that's all! Good questions Tacenda...
MustardSeed Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 Lol I guess 10k is a little more than a stipend . Is that true??
Scott Lloyd Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 1 hour ago, MustardSeed said: Lol I guess 10k is a little more than a stipend . Is that true?? What in your view is the upper limit of what a stipend should be, and why do you set it at that amount. (I’ll pose this to Tacenda as well, and anyone else who cares to answer.)
MustardSeed Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 I assumed most GAs were retired. Am I wrong?
MustardSeed Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 Locally our seminary teachers used to receive a stipend. It was gas money to and from church. When I play music in an orchestra, I receive a stipend. It is no more than $50 for at least 10 hours of rehearsal and a 2 hour gig. So my definition of a high stipend is anything that compares beyond minimum wage for working hours. I assumed that’s why we had so many high professionals in leadership. They can afford not to work. ?
ksfisher Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: I assumed most GAs were retired. Am I wrong? Elder Bednar was ordained an apostle when he was 52. President Oaks was 52. President Nelson 62. Elder Holland was called to the 1st Quorum of the 70 at 49. 3
MustardSeed Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 yes Of course. Are the retirees collecting 10k per month beyond retirement and SS income?
MustardSeed Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 I’ve always bragged that our church is unpaid ministry. 120K is paid ministry in my book which is what it is, but it’s DEFINITELY not unpaid.
MustardSeed Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 It just changed my message to brag that “local” ministry and missionary work is unpaid and out of pocket. I already don’t shop at desert book on principle so I suppose the paid ministry just affects the message from high leadership in a way that matters only to me. Thank you for the insight.
Calm Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 26 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: I assumed most GAs were retired. Am I wrong? I am not good at guessing age, but it seems like a number are below retirement age. Check out here to see photos: https://www.lds.org/bc/content/ldsorg/church/news/2018/04/10/April2018GAChart.pdf
MustardSeed Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 I always assumed independent wealth that afforded a life of pure service.
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