RevTestament Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 37 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: Comes under the heading of "compelled speech." "Mormon" has now become a trigger-word, causing the victims to run and hide, seeking a "safe space" somewhere. Canada even has a new law telling people not only what they can and can't say, but also what they must say. THAT is the Nanny state! 1
RevTestament Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 8 hours ago, Teancum said: President Nelson says that when we use the name Mormon Satan has victory and Jesus is offended: https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2018/10/07/members-offend-jesus/ “When the savior clearly states what the name of his church should be, and even precedes his declaration with, ‘Thus shall my church be called,' he is serious. And if we allow nicknames to be used and adopt or even sponsor those nicknames ourselves, he is offended.” Using common nicknames such as “Mormon church,” “LDS Church” or the “Church of the Latter-day Saints,” Nelson said, “... is a major victory for Satan.” In his last comment Pres Nelson is saying that if WE ie members call the Church the "Mormon Church" it can be a victory for Satan and I agree. He is not saying that using the name Mormon is a victory for Satan. However, if the members start calling the Church the Mormon Church, I think Satan has gotten us to break our Lord's wishes and even commandments to His Church. He specifically says He doesn't want His church to have the name of a man besides Himself. If we start doing that very thing, how is that a victory for Christ? Then His Church will not be known by His name. How is that good? Then people don't think "Christ" when they hear about our Church. Quote I guess all the other Prophet, Seers and Revelators were not listening for the past 150 years. 🤣🤣😂 No, the one wrong is you. None of the GAs have said that we should call the Church the Mormon Church. Some may have slipped it out, but none have said that is OK. None. Quote Honestly, and this won't be popular here, it seems to me that if this is the most important thing that has been weighing on the new Prophet's mind and he is ratcheting it up, well, wow, what pablum we get from the modern LDS Prophets. Teaching the Church to follow the wishes of our Lord is not pablum. When the Church thinks that it is, and doesn't follow the directions the Lord Himself has given us, then the Church is in a state of pride. That has always been dangerous for the Church. 2
Palerider Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 (edited) 40 minutes ago, RevTestament said: None of the GAs have said that we should call the Church the Mormon Church. Some may have slipped it out, but none have said that is OK. None. From Joseph Smith Jr. "One of the grand fundamental principles of Mormonism is to receive truth, let it come from whence it may." I'm sure this is one of those slips. 😉 Or this? "We should gather all the good and true principles in the world and treasure them up, or we shall not come out true "Mormons."" ETA: Second quote. Edited November 26, 2018 by Palerider 1
Robert F. Smith Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, Palerider said: Kind of surprised to see you take this sort of direction or liberty with a prophets' whispering from the Lord. Are you feeling alright? 😉 ETA: Hope this isn't seen as a comment of any type on your person. I consider it just an observation. 🤔 Welcome back, Palerider. Haven't had the benefit of your counsel in a while. As you perceive, I am confused. Edited November 26, 2018 by Robert F. Smith
Robert F. Smith Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 (edited) "Mormon (word)," Wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_(word) : Quote According to the Oxford English Dictionary, one of the earliest published usages of the term Mormon to describe believers in the Book of Mormon was in 1833 by the Louisville(Kentucky) Daily Herald in an article, "The Mormons and the Anti-Mormons". The terms Mormon and Mormonite were first used in the 1830s as pejoratives to describe those who followed Joseph Smith and believed in the divine origin of the Book of Mormon. The term was soon adopted by Mormons themselves, however, and has lost its generally pejorative status. The term Mormon is most often used to refer to members of the LDS Church. However, the term is also adopted by other adherents of Mormonism, including adherents of Mormon fundamentalism. The term Mormon is generally disfavored by other denominations of the Latter Day Saint movement, such as the Community of Christ, which have distinct histories from that of the LDS Church since Smith's death in 1844. * * * * The official name of the Salt Lake City, Utah–based church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. While the term Mormon Church has long been attached to the church as a nickname, it is not a preferred title, and the church's style guide says, "Please avoid the use of 'Mormon Church', 'LDS Church' or the 'Church of the Latter-day Saints.'" LDS Church leaders have encouraged members to use the church's full name to emphasize the church's focus on Jesus Christ. * * * * In some countries, Mormon and some phrases including the term are registered trademarks owned by Intellectual Reserve, a holding company for the LDS Church's intellectual property. In the United States, the LDS Church has applied for a trademark on Mormon as applied to religious services; however, the United States Patent and Trademark Office rejected the application, stating that the term Mormon was too generic, and is popularly understood as referring to a particular kind of church, similar to Presbyterian or Methodist, rather than a service mark The application was abandoned as of August 22, 2007. In all, Intellectual Reserve owns more than 60 trademarks related to the term Mormon. Edited November 26, 2018 by Robert F. Smith
Palerider Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 12 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: Because I am having a very hard time figuring this all out. I'm feeling that I just don't get it. That this whole matter is beyond my ability to deal with it as a practical reality. I feel impressed to let you know, this is not your fault Robert. But you are being faithful in displaying the desired "church broke" reaction of wanting to blame yourself. So you are accruing faithful member points to your credit. 🤗 1
RevTestament Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 9 hours ago, Palerider said: From Joseph Smith Jr. "One of the grand fundamental principles of Mormonism is to receive truth, let it come from whence it may." I'm sure this is one of those slips. 😉 Or this? "We should gather all the good and true principles in the world and treasure them up, or we shall not come out true "Mormons."" ETA: Second quote. And we should continue to do it because men are perfect and never err? And have perfect foresight? Didn't Joseph Smith wish to kowtow to the wishes of the world despite the wishes of the Lord, and thereby lose the Book of Lehi to us? Joseph Smith was bright about people, and wanted to remove the sting of being called "Mormon." As Robert astutely points out: Quote According to the Oxford English Dictionary, one of the earliest published usages of the term Mormon to describe believers in the Book of Mormon was in 1833 by the Louisville(Kentucky) Daily Herald in an article, "The Mormons and the Anti-Mormons". The terms Mormon and Mormonite were first used in the 1830s as pejoratives to describe those who followed Joseph Smith and believed in the divine origin of the Book of Mormon. The term was soon adopted by Mormons themselves, however, and has lost its generally pejorative status. Counseling the Saints(Smith's usual name for the Church) to accept the name Mormon from detractors served to take away the sting, and avoid argumentation about being Christian. It served to remove the initially pejorative nature of the usage. So in that sense it was a smart move at the time. Did Joseph Smith refer to the Church as the Mormon Church or know that the members would start doing that in the future? Did he foresee that everyone would adopt the name, and start to call the Church the Mormon Church - even its members? As I see it, that is the issue. What was once OK, has been used by Satan imho, to go against the express wishes of our Lord over the course of 180 years. Could I continue to allow people to call me a Mormon? Yes. But I have personally chosen to simply say, I prefer to be called a LDS Christian. That puts the onus on them as to whether to adopt a pejorative attitude, and gently guides them away from calling the Church the Mormon Church. If they adopt a pejorative attitude, further discussion generally won't be fruitful anyway. Is it OK now that His Church is becoming a world-wide Church to continue to refer to the Church as the Mormon Church so that it becomes known that way by the whole world, and thereby unwittingly accede to Satan's plan to introduce the name for the membership of the Church, hoping the members would one day all call the Church the Mormon Church so as to avoid the connection to his adversary, Jesus Christ? To believe that the Church cannot fall into a trap laid by Satan seems to be the ultimate hubris to me... just sayin. And then to berate our leaders for warning us, and trying to steer us clear is just not a good sign. I think the leaders are coming to realize that if we call ourselves Mormons, we will continue to get called the Mormon Church. I realized it 20 years ago, so made a conscious decision to not do it, and to start leading the Church away from the habit, as did I think Pres Nelson. There was apparently some general disagreement over that continued practice. Turning the Church can be a slow effort. For myself, I have chosen to be part of the solution rather than to continue to hope that people will not call the Church the Mormon Church. It's a little thing, and if we can't do the little things, why should we continue to expect our Lord to guide us? Or give us greater things?
Palerider Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said: Haven't had the benefit of your counsel in a while. As you perceive, I am confused. My counsel is useless and human. As Jiminy used to say: "Give a little whistle and always let your conscience be your guide." 1
Palerider Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 (edited) 38 minutes ago, RevTestament said: And we should continue to do it because men are perfect and never err? And have perfect foresight? Didn't Joseph Smith wish to kowtow to the wishes of the world despite the wishes of the Lord, and thereby lose the Book of Lehi to us? Joseph Smith was bright about people, and wanted to remove the sting of being called "Mormon." As Robert astutely points out: Counseling the Saints(Smith's usual name for the Church) to accept the name Mormon from detractors served to take away the sting, and avoid argumentation about being Christian. It served to remove the initially pejorative nature of the usage. So in that sense it was a smart move at the time. Did Joseph Smith refer to the Church as the Mormon Church or know that the members would start doing that in the future? Did he foresee that everyone would adopt the name, and start to call the Church the Mormon Church - even its members? As I see it, that is the issue. What was once OK, has been used by Satan imho, to go against the express wishes of our Lord over the course of 180 years. Could I continue to allow people to call me a Mormon? Yes. But I have personally chosen to simply say, I prefer to be called a LDS Christian. That puts the onus on them as to whether to adopt a pejorative attitude, and gently guides them away from calling the Church the Mormon Church. If they adopt a pejorative attitude, further discussion generally won't be fruitful anyway. Is it OK now that His Church is becoming a world-wide Church to continue to refer to the Church as the Mormon Church so that it becomes known that way by the whole world, and thereby unwittingly accede to Satan's plan to introduce the name for the membership of the Church, hoping the members would one day all call the Church the Mormon Church so as to avoid the connection to his adversary, Jesus Christ? To believe that the Church cannot fall into a trap laid by Satan seems to be the ultimate hubris to me... just sayin. And then to berate our leaders for warning us, and trying to steer us clear is just not a good sign. I think the leaders are coming to realize that if we call ourselves Mormons, we will continue to get called the Mormon Church. I realized it 20 years ago, so made a conscious decision to not do it, and to start leading the Church away from the habit, as did I think Pres Nelson. There was apparently some general disagreement over that continued practice. Turning the Church can be a slow effort. For myself, I have chosen to be part of the solution rather than to continue to hope that people will not call the Church the Mormon Church. It's a little thing, and if we can't do the little things, why should we continue to expect our Lord to guide us? Or give us greater things? I'm sure you're right. That old Satan is very wily. And very good of you to be precognizant of his plan! I only wish that Pres. Hinkley could have been aware of that plan before the huge amount of time, effort and tithing money was expended on the "I'm a Mormon" campaign videos. As I recall everyone KNEW they were inspired at the time. Praise was heaped upon leadership for continuing to recieve revelation. How sad that they couldn't see they were falling right into the trap of Satan! It's too bad you weren't there among them to give them a little insight and guidance. You could have foiled Satan's plan. But all is well that ends well and now with the leadership of Bro. Nelson the church is back on track after years of dwelling in a little bit of darkness. Even better, we all KNOW that this new adjustment is revelation....this time...🤔 Edited November 26, 2018 by Palerider Edited for spelling. 🙄 2
RevTestament Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 2 hours ago, Palerider said: I'm sure you're right. That old Satan is very wily. And very good of you to be precognizant of his plan! I only wish that Pres. Hinkley could have been aware of that plan before the huge amount of time, effort and tithing money was expended on the "I'm a Mormon" campaign videos. As I recall everyone KNEW they were inspired at the time. Praise was heaped upon leadership for continuing to recieve revelation. How sad that they couldn't see they were falling right into the trap of Satan! It's too bad you weren't there among them to give them a little insight and guidance. You could have foiled Satan's plan. But all is well that ends well and now with the leadership of Bro. Nelson the church is back on track after years of dwelling in a little bit of darkness. Even better, we all KNOW that this new adjustment is revelation....this time...🤔 I dare say they knew my personal objections to it and did the opposite. Sie la vie, right? I'm glad though that they have learned a lesson. (yes, after spending tithing money on a campaign that in my estimation didn't work ) (PS. I'm sure you're right too, and that I am just a misguided fool, who happened to be right.) Cheers
Rivers Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 I’ve never liked the term Mormon church. I’ve always preferred the term LDS Church. 1
Robert F. Smith Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 6 hours ago, Palerider said: I feel impressed to let you know, this is not your fault Robert. But you are being faithful in displaying the desired "church broke" reaction of wanting to blame yourself. So you are accruing faithful member points to your credit. 🤗 Phew !! So maybe I'll be able to endure to the end anyhow. Thanks, Palerider.
Robert F. Smith Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Rivers said: I’ve never liked the term Mormon church. I’ve always preferred the term LDS Church. I recall my surprise on first arriving in the Kansas City area many years ago, and hearing non-LDS people refer to "Latter Day Saints," meaning of course the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints members (now Community of Christ). Utah Mormons had called them "Reorganites" or "RLDS." Somehow, it appears to me that "Latter Day Saints" might be a better term to use than the full name of the Church when referring to members. One can also correctly refer to "Saints of the Last Days" (an accurate translation of the Hebrew phrase). or just "Saints" as the Church officially does in its new 4-volume history series titled "Saints." There is a very good reason to prefer short terms instead of long ones. Long terms just won't get used. Short ones will. It is a practical matter. Somebody said that this was the preferred term used by Brother Joseph. "Saints." 1
MustardSeed Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 19 hours ago, Storm Rider said: I knew it was the victim's fault; I just knew it. We are weird. We even pride ourselves on it.
Rivers Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 47 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: I recall my surprise on first arriving in the Kansas City area many years ago, and hearing non-LDS people refer to "Latter Day Saints," meaning of course the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints members (now Community of Christ). Utah Mormons had called them "Reorganites" or "RLDS." Somehow, it appears to me that "Latter Day Saints" might be a better term to use than the full name of the Church when referring to members. One can also correctly refer to "Saints of the Last Days" (an accurate translation of the Hebrew phrase). or just "Saints" as the Church officially does in its new 4-volume history series titled "Saints." There is a very good reason to prefer short terms instead of long ones. Long terms just won't get used. Short ones will. It is a practical matter. Somebody said that this was the preferred term used by Brother Joseph. "Saints." “Latter-day Saints” has been deemed an appropriate term for church members. 1
Storm Rider Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 47 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: We are weird. We even pride ourselves on it. That would be an interesting poll - "Are you weird?" Dollars to donuts, most Mormons would vote no; I certainly would. I am not even sure we are that peculiar anymore.
MustardSeed Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 I know I’m not weird! Lol. But my non member friends think it’s weird that I’m a member of a church that is known mostly around these parts for weird things. I think we are respected for our devotion, our hard work and our family life but if you don’t think we aren’t seen as weird by people outside our faith, then we just know different people.
Calm Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 2 hours ago, Storm Rider said: That would be an interesting poll - "Are you weird?" Dollars to donuts, most Mormons would vote no; I certainly would. I am not even sure we are that peculiar anymore. I have no problem with the label weird.
MustardSeed Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 I was just a second ago looking into the DNA test advertised today by Ancestry and there’s a huge discussion about how folks refuse to send their DNA to “the Mormons “. Yes, people think we are weird. most of our friends and neighbors are just too polite to say so.
MustardSeed Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 I digress, sorry. I’ll save the We Are Weirdos for another time. 1
The Nehor Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 1 hour ago, MustardSeed said: I digress, sorry. I’ll save the We Are Weirdos for another time. Hopefully a "We Are Weirdos" campaign will replace the "I'm a Mormon" campaign. 1
MustardSeed Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 7 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Hopefully a "We Are Weirdos" campaign will replace the "I'm a Mormon" campaign. Bwaaaha!
Robert F. Smith Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 3 hours ago, Storm Rider said: That would be an interesting poll - "Are you weird?" Dollars to donuts, most Mormons would vote no; I certainly would. I am not even sure we are that peculiar anymore. Both "weird" and "peculiar" have very different meanings today from their origins. The faithful believers in 1 Peter 2:9 are God's "chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession" (NIV; "peculiar" KJV), and not weird at all. 1
Robert F. Smith Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 15 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Hopefully a "We Are Weirdos" campaign will replace the "I'm a Mormon" campaign. How about Shakespere's Three Wyrd Sisters in "Macbeth":
strappinglad Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 Are the Amish weird? Yup. They do have much about them to be admired, however. How about the Mennonites, the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Quakers, the Bahai , dare I say the Muslims, oh, and those orthodox Jews, not to mention the millions of followers of the pantheon of Hindu gods. Being a bit weird is... um... normal.
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