A constant environment of change, what to do?

[Guest]

2 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

It's not your fault, Bill. But you can choose not to accept the situation passively and instead reach out. 

That was kind of a joke, but I m horrified that I typed my comment so fast, I forgot to proofread it. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

Then do it for your wife.

But I sense that this is not all about your wife  (correct me if I'm wrong).  It sounded to me like you were expressing personal concerns about feeling like a ghost and not having a calling.  I think those both can be remedied by reaching out.  I totally understand not wanting to be the center of attention, but I also understand not wanting to feel like a ghost.  I think that simply asking for a calling will go a long way in helping you not feel like a ghost.  It will help you rub shoulders with others.  Being active in ministering, and reaching out and fellowshiping others in the ward can also help.  One thing that I have noticed from personal experience in the church - if you feel like a ghost in a ward, you are probably not alone.  There are likely others in your ward who need fellowship just like you.  Seek them out and you will solve your woes and theirs.

Sending my cyber love and fellowship to a brother in need.  I know that some wards are socially more difficult then others, and I feel for ya - but my mother always taught me to "bloom where you are planted."  I think that is good advice most of the time. 

Maybe there is something to what you say, but when my wife gets hurt, I get hurt. Also when Mama is not happy, Papa can't be happy. 

[CV75]

4 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

OK, I am glad you like it, our Ward boundaries changed three times in one year, and it is very large area, why out in the country for the most part. 

But it sounds like the primary issue is not so much "location-location-location" but the legitimate need to feel you belong, and I'm suggesting you can talk with your bishop or ministers about that, and of being isolated due to illness.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, CV75 said:

But it sounds like the primary issue is not so much "location-location-location" but the legitimate need to feel you belong, and I'm suggesting you can talk with your bishop or ministers about that, and of being isolated due to illness.

One thing I did not mention, a wonderful friend of mine (before all of the boundary changes) was made the High Priest Group Leader, two months later, released and made Seminary Teacher, three months after that, Bishop. Then six months later, the Ward boundaries changed,  and he was moved to become the Bishop of a different (or the) different Ward, and not the one I ended up assigned too.  

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, CV75 said:

But it sounds like the primary issue is not so much "location-location-location" but the legitimate need to feel you belong, and I'm suggesting you can talk with your bishop or ministers about that, and of being isolated due to illness.

We'll see, although I said glowing things about my Priesthood leaders on every level, I did so on Facebook. Therefore he may not want to speak with me, and if he calls me and does, it may be to accuse me of not supporting my local leadership. So, not sure if, or how to proceed. 

[CV75]

11 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

We'll see, although I said glowing things about my Priesthood leaders on every level, I did so on Facebook. Therefore he may not want to speak with me, and if he calls me and does, it may be to accuse me of not supporting my local leadership. So, not sure if, or how to proceed. 

I'm not sure I understand -- "glowing things" means "positive things", right?

And is your primary concern is not feeling like you belong? (and if not, what is)?

[mnn727]

21 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Yes, it probably is my fault. 

Did you even read the rest of my post?

[rpn]

I doubt anyone thinks that it is someone's fault (or at least they shouldn't be judging like that).   I think they are saying you can do something about it.  And when you regain your feeling of control it may not hurt you so much.   Why don't you just bear your testimony on Sept 2 that you are nurtured in your afflictions when you can attend church, and when people reach out to you and you are very grateful for those who have, and are going to do better on that point yourself.  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, mnn727 said:

Did you even read the rest of my post?

Yes, why do you assume otherwise? I always read posts addressed to me and. my threads and comments. I only addressed your opening comment, and took responsibility for my actions or inaction that you addressed. Opening comments are usually the message one seeks to address, that reveals their most pressing ideas of someone's comments. and most all, firmly believes. So despite my experience, I will take the lead to right my wrongs, before going to my old Ward. I should, so I will step up to the plate. If of. If of course my wife will allow me to do so, she is very weary, despite being very outgoing, , but also feels, "unwanted and unnoticed", as she has clearly expressed a desire to attend our old Ward! As I said before is only 7, maybe 10 more miles away, with  little traffic on Sunday that may at best, just 5-10 mins  more of a drive. But again, I did read your entire post. So peace to you my brother...

Your brother in Jesus Christ, 

Bill "Papa" Lee

Atlanta (or should I say, Zion) Georgia. 

 

 

 

 

[rongo]

31 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

 As I said before is only 7, maybe 10 more miles away, with  little traffic on Sunday that may at best, just 5-10 mins  more of a drive.

For me, as I said before, it is much less about feasibility and convenience, and much more about giving them a chance to make it right. I know when I have learned that "I blew it," I wish people would have let me know. When people feel hurt or offended by me, and I really had no idea, I wish they would say something. 

I think you owe it to your local leadership to at least know about it and have the chance to do better. To just go back to your old ward without that wrongs them, in my view. 

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, rpn said:

I doubt anyone thinks that it is someone's fault (or at least they shouldn't be judging like that).   I think they are saying you can do something about it.  And when you regain your feeling of control it may not hurt you so much.   Why don't you just bear your testimony on Sept 2 that you are nurtured in your afflictions when you can attend church, and when people reach out to you and you are very grateful for those who have, and are going to do better on that point yourself.  

In have born testimony many times over the years, I used to teach in the Hign Priests Group. It  was great, great for me, maybe woeful for those in class. I even  taught in the Elders Quorum's,  but that was due too my vocal desire for someone to teach this older Conference sermon. A topic, or thread  where I I spoke of it here, I received criticism, when a brother, told  me I should not have asked for this lesson, of the sermon, nor should my Elders Quorum President, have allowed it to be taught.  But since then, few if any speak to me. But, I can take it,  but my wife who is much more  outgoing, is much more easily wounded. Also as I said before, maybe my class, and my comments to the Bishop who asked;;  "When wa the last tune you spoke in spoke in Sacrament"?  Maybe my long conversation, put him off, on the idea of me speaking. I love reaching, but speaking, not so much. So, no harm, no foul. Anyway, just answering your post, not looking for, or seeking pity. I am a tiny cog in a massive wheel. So please forgive my errors in spelling and grammatical errors. I have gotten the the point where I must use an iPad, usually only one eye, not sure what is going on with my eyes, maybe diabetes and advancing years, who knows?   

 

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, rongo said:

For me, as I said before, it is much less about feasibility and convenience, and much more about giving them a chance to make it right. I know when I have learned that "I blew it," I wish people would have let me know. When people feel hurt or offended by me, and I really had no idea, I wish they would say something. 

I think you owe it to your local leadership to at least know about it and have the chance to do better. To just go back to your old ward without that wrongs them, in my view. 

Make what righ?  Being continually overlooked, having no home teachers, no ministers, having not made a single list? ? Does it really matter if we go where will be well relieved, and where many friends know us and love me? It is after all the same Church, just a different building. I am not going to become an apostate. 

[rongo]

14 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Make what right?  Being continually overlooked, having no home teachers, no ministers, having not made a single list? ? Does it really matter if we go where will be well relieved, and where many friends know us and love me? It is after all the same Church, just a different building. I am not going to become an apostate. 

Yes, all of that. They may (it sounds like it) have been derelict of duty on home teachers, callings, general fellowshipping, etc. They need to make that right. But they may also be oblivious to it --- maybe not malevolently so, but perhaps more incompetently so. It is possible that it would be a big wake-up call to them, and they would make vast improvements in that --- which would have far-reaching effects beyond you and your wife, too. 

If they still don't care, and nothing changes, then go to the ward you want to go to in good conscience. But at least you gave them the chance to make it right, or even show improvement. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

Yes, all of that. They may (it sounds like it) have been derelict of duty on home teachers, callings, general fellowshipping, etc. They need to make that right. But they may also be oblivious to it --- maybe not malevolently so, but perhaps more incompetently so. It is possible that it would be a big wake-up call to them, and they would make vast improvements in that --- which would have far-reaching effects beyond you and your wife, too. 

If they still don't care, and nothing changes, then go to the ward you want to go to in good conscience. But at least you gave them the chance to make it right, or even show improvement. 

 Rongo, my Elders Quorum President, who despite the many boundaries has know my wife and I, for 2+ years,. Also my Bishop for the same amount of time. There is nothing I could say about these issues that they don't already know. It may be an issue concerning issues with two of my children, one Gay, and one excommunicated, so maybe they see us as bad parents. Anyway who knows why the neglect. Maybe they do not wish to have failed parents speak out of concern that we would be bad examples, or others have expressed concern about us.  But this back and forth is causing even more stress. I have learned to cope and go on with life, as have they it seemed too. So, no more!  I regret brnging it up, even long time friends here rarely respond to anything  I post. I fear that many fear think I am becoming an apostate. Nothing could be further (or is it farther?)  from the truth , I am and will always be a active member of the Church, without question. Most who do respond, usually do so in opposition, as they my see me as a possible apostate, which I am not. My difficulty ttyping, proofreading over and over, is making it difficult to even keep up. I also fear that I contribute little to the forms. I love this place, and do not want to lower the bar.

One recent poster and thread asked, "what has happened to this site, noting the lack of academic posters and the sites content" (too  paraphrase ) , I worry that I am,part of the trouble, anyway, I think I should cut back on posting. I will attempt to answer those who respond, as I do not wish to be rude. Anyway, Thank you, Rongo for your advice. 

  

[sunstoned]

On 8/15/2018 at 10:08 AM, pogi said:

I am in agreement with Walden and jk.  I think the bishop and EQ president would be more then happy to offer support, fellowship, and a calling if they better understood what you were experiencing and going through.  In a perfect world, we would all receive excellent fellowship, but that has not always been my experience either.  Don't be afraid to share your experiences with them.  Otherwise, it is like going to a doctor and expecting them to help you without explaining your symptoms to them first. 

My wife and I had a very similar situation a few years ago.  I thought we gave the new ward (our stake was split and ward boundaries redrawn) the college try, but have several months of the type of situation that you described, we returned to our old ward.  We caught H*** from our state president for attending church outside of our prescribed boundary.  But we were past caring what he thought.  As I told the stake president.  Ward boundaries and what ward I am assigned falls under policy.  It has nothing to do with Christ's gospel and how and where I choose to worship.

Worship were you feel included.  

[rongo]

2 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

 Rongo, my Elders Quorum President, who despite the many boundaries has know my wife and I, for 2+ years,. Also my Bishop for the same amount of time. There is nothing I could say about these issues that they don't already know. It may be an issue concerning issues with two of my children, one Gay, and one excommunicated, so maybe they see us as bad parents. Anyway who knows why the neglect. Maybe they do not wish to have failed parents speak out of concern that we would be bad examples, or others have expressed concern about us.  But this back and forth is causing even more stress. I have learned to cope and go on with life, as have they it seemed too. So, no more!  I regret brnging it up, even long time friends here rarely respond to anything  I post. I fear that many fear think I am becoming an apostate. Nothing could be further (or is it farther?)  from the truth , I am and will always be a active member of the Church, without question. Most who do respond, usually do so in opposition, as they my see me as a possible apostate, which I am not. My difficulty ttyping, proofreading over and over, is making it difficult to even keep up. I also fear that I contribute little to the forms. I love this place, and do not want to lower the bar.

One recent poster and thread asked, "what has happened to this site, noting the lack of academic posters and the sites content" (too  paraphrase ) , I worry that I am,part of the trouble, anyway, I think I should cut back on posting. I will attempt to answer those who respond, as I do not wish to be rude. Anyway, Thank you, Rongo for your advice. 

I don't think anyone on this site things you are heading to apostasy. I certainly don't. We're just trying to help you and your ward.

If the cold shoulder is because of your kids, that would be evident in talking about it with them. I think you're assuming a lot about them, which isn't fair to them. Or, not fair to them until they confirm your suspicions.  

I'm just saying, given them a chance. But if you don't directly address it with them, you will never know. And they probably won't, either. 

[Guest]

22 hours ago, rongo said:

I don't think anyone on this site things you are heading to apostasy. I certainly don't. We're just trying to help you and your ward.

If the cold shoulder is because of your kids, that would be evident in talking about it with them. I think you're assuming a lot about them, which isn't fair to them. Or, not fair to them until they confirm your suspicions.  

I'm just saying, given them a chance. But if you don't directly address it with them, you will never know. And they probably won't, either. 

Maybe you are right, but everyone involved is a friend on Facebook, and the only people to respond are friends from other Wards. No comments, calls, even from friends in my Ward, who have no involvement, and "no dog in the fight" (so to speak).. Even our activities night in our Ward came and went, with no effort to reach out. So, despite my close proximity, and eye contact, and saying hello with all my leadership, with no hello back, except with only one old friend who did speak, all must be my shortcomings. Another old friend called and said, "so and so", called me and said, "so and so sent me a emai. Although I have no idea how you even know her, she being in another Ward and Stake. She said you need help with something". BTW, everything in quotation marks are indeed a direct quote. I told him, Paul, I have no idea why someone thought I need help with something? When I called back to explain why someone might have contacted him, he could not get off the phone too quickly. He did say, "well I did pass you in the hallway and said, hello. But I guess you did not hear me". I did not see him, because I remained in the chapel the entire time I was at Church. This brother has known me for 34+ years, so there is no why he would have mistaken me for someone else. we have seldom spoken since my daughter came out of the closet. He and his family are very anti-Gay, so I understand his misgivings. 

If I go to my assigned Ward, I will take your advice, and take my responsibility. Even though I am unaware why seeing and speaking to my Priesthood leaders, lead to being ignored. I will try to let them explain. However my comments, all kind may cause them to be very defensive. As I said in this thread, and in my post, these are good me, which is why I am bewildered. 

 

[california boy]

There was this old guy that moved into our ward.  Didn't have any family. Didn't know anyone. I have no idea how long he might have been attending the ward I was in.  I vaguely remember seeing him before.  Then one Sunday, there he was, at the chapel door and shaking every persons hand that walked into the chapel.  Yes there were other greeter that were assigned that job, he did it anyway.  There are no rules on how many greeters are welcoming people into the chapel.  He did that every single Sunday for the rest of his life.  I remember shaking his hand and feeling how strong his grip was, even in his late 80's.  I thought this guy would live forever.  Suddenly and completely unexpected, he died one night.  I don't think there was anyone more loved in the ward. I don't even think he ever had a calling in the ward.   

I still think of Brother Cox and his strong welcoming handshake.  I like to think that if I showed up one Sunday if he was still alive, he would reach out and give me that same welcoming handshake with that same smile on his face and glint in his eye..  And if he happened to be the only person to welcome me back, it would be enough.

[Tacenda]

6 hours ago, california boy said:

There was this old guy that moved into our ward.  Didn't have any family. Didn't know anyone. I have no idea how long he might have been attending the ward I was in.  I vaguely remember seeing him before.  Then one Sunday, there he was, at the chapel door and shaking every persons hand that walked into the chapel.  Yes there were other greeter that were assigned that job, he did it anyway.  There are no rules on how many greeters are welcoming people into the chapel.  He did that every single Sunday for the rest of his life.  I remember shaking his hand and feeling how strong his grip was, even in his late 80's.  I thought this guy would live forever.  Suddenly and completely unexpected, he died one night.  I don't think there was anyone more loved in the ward. I don't even think he ever had a calling in the ward.   

I still think of Brother Cox and his strong welcoming handshake.  I like to think that if I showed up one Sunday if he was still alive, he would reach out and give me that same welcoming handshake with that same smile on his face and glint in his eye..  And if he happened to be the only person to welcome me back, it would be enough.

I love this! I think Brother Cox would have greeted you with a great big bear hug, California Boy! 😘

Edited August 18, 2018 by Tacenda

[Atheist Mormon]

On 8/15/2018 at 10:16 AM, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

I touched on this,a bit before, but now wish to share more. I have lived in the same home for 4+ years, but have been a member for four years. I don't know many people, and have become a ghost of a type. Not because I do not attend, but for other reasons. This last Sunday I attend for the first time in a while, due to heart problems, and heat procedures. My Elders Quorum President, who is a good man, sat in front of me in Sacrament meeting, and after did not say hello, or shake my hand, despite looking me in the eye.. My Bishop, walked right by me, and did not speak to me, or shake my hand, and he too is a very good mam. I also know they have much on their minds, but I saw then engage, and shake the hands of many, very many. The only friend who spoke to me, had no idea I had been gone, or that I had been in the hospital. 

I ask a question, to all who wish to respond. Should I go back to my old Ward, it is only 10-15 miles away?  My wife, nor I have any callings, in fact all callings have been given to those who the Bishop knows the most, those who despite different boundaries, have been in each. My wife and I have been going to the same building, but not in every Ward. So, we will not be missed, at all. Well my wife might, many more speak to her, and seldom any to myself. I think so think I am going inactive, and don't know what to say. Either way, I miss many of my old friends, those who remained in my old Ward, and those who via boundary changes are meeting there now. So would it matter, where I go, since my wife nor I have any callings? I apologize if this is a bit of overlap of my previous thread, but I am asking different questions, and the other thread starting become a debate over Facebook. So hopefully this thread will remain on my intended focus. I do not wish to become inactive, but my wife feels unwelcome, and as I said, I feel like a ghost. 

 

 

In my active days this was an issue I resented most. It was too much for me to be dictated which ward I should attend.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

In my active days this was an issue I resented most. It was too much for me to be dictated which ward I should attend.

I understand your comment, my brother in the Gospel. My  greatest desire for you,  is for you to return, no matter the Ward. But I only wish you to feel welcome, and find the faith you once had. I was blessed for my entire life to have a 'perfect knowledge"  of the existence of God, and Jesus Christ as his son. This "perfect knowledge ",  lead me to becoming a "preacher" from 18-20, before reading the Book of Mormon. A book I found quite by accident, or maybe by the design by a loving God. Before befoe then I only  "preached", for lack of a better term in Baptist  Churches, the Church in which I was raised. Either way, I am not guessing about the existence of God, but as I have  stated, I known always with a "perfect knowledge". However I still have to exercise  faith about many other things. But getting back to the thread title, and topic, it is hard to keep adjusting to new Wards and boundaries. Our last change was a name change, and new boundaries just three months apart, which lead to a very, very large membership. So now, I went to knowing barely half of our Ward, to not knowing almost 3/4 of our Ward. 

[nuclearfuels]

There will never be a time when everyone is in compliance with all the Church rules, laws of the land (City, county, state, station, etc.).

When I lived in Our Lovely Deseret, the ward boundaries of our stake were frequently redrawn, I don't know if this was due to an abundance of youngin's / children and Primary work load or welfare needs, but it did strain friendships and relationships a bit (after work, callings, kids, spouse, commuting on that joke of a crowded polluted highway pre-front runner, etc. leaves only so many hours in the day). Contributed to my family and I moving to Boston for graduate school and into a ward / culture where it seemed most people didn't really care (due to work, family, commute, etc. not doctrine)

Many years later I was glad, elated even to leave a ward I was in a long time ago, and attend a different one - same stake and I didn't move.  Seems more common near big cities. 

IMHO, I wouldn't expect to see it as policy but attendance (even in a ward you're not in the boundaries of) is more important than trying to keep all the rules (a state of being none of us will ever attain, especially me hence grace, the Atonement, etc.). Attendance trumps boundary compliance. 

i think boundaries are partially in place so wards don't become too homogeneous - race, income, heritage, etc. 

[nuclearfuels]

On 8/17/2018 at 9:17 PM, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Maybe you are right, but everyone involved is a friend on Facebook, and the only people to respond are friends from other Wards. No comments, calls, even from friends in my Ward, who have no involvement, and "no dog in the fight" (so to speak).. Even our activities night in our Ward came and went, with no effort to reach out. So, despite my close proximity, and eye contact, and saying hello with all my leadership, with no hello back, except with only one old friend who did speak, all must be my shortcomings. Another old friend called and said, "so and so", called me and said, "so and so sent me a emai. Although I have no idea how you even know her, she being in another Ward and Stake. She said you need help with something". BTW, everything in quotation marks are indeed a direct quote. I told him, Paul, I have no idea why someone thought I need help with something? When I called back to explain why someone might have contacted him, he could not get off the phone too quickly. He did say, "well I did pass you in the hallway and said, hello. But I guess you did not hear me". I did not see him, because I remained in the chapel the entire time I was at Church. This brother has known me for 34+ years, so there is no why he would have mistaken me for someone else. we have seldom spoken since my daughter came out of the closet. He and his family are very anti-Gay, so I understand his misgivings. 

If I go to my assigned Ward, I will take your advice, and take my responsibility. Even though I am unaware why seeing and speaking to my Priesthood leaders, lead to being ignored. I will try to let them explain. However my comments, all kind may cause them to be very defensive. As I said in this thread, and in my post, these are good me, which is why I am bewildered. 

 

I have found it helpful to trust my instincts in situations like this.

As long as those instincts are not overly influenced by side-effects from Rx following major operations and the attendant disruptions in sleeping patterns.

Assuming one person (you) in a ward is interpreting the situation incorrectly, to me, doesn't seem healthy.

[nuclearfuels]

On 8/15/2018 at 4:15 PM, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

As I before stated, I do not need, nor do I wish to be the center of attention. All this is just an observation, my wife sometimes  on the other hand feels unwelcome, thus my concern. In our old Ward, even when visiting we are surrounded with love and attention, if we like it or not. 

 

Easier to attend elsewhere.

If your old ward wont send your records to your new ward, wait them out. 

Onward and upward