Calm Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 9 hours ago, CA Steve said: You're welcome. It is funny how perspective colors what we view as limiting others imaginations. I believe it is my imagination that allows me to see more than just one side to the possibilities. For example, I agree with you that if we end up as eternal beings in some sort of endless creation cycle, then that existence will in no way resemble our current one, and I take it a step further, in my imagination. We ourselves in no way will resemble our current state. My imagination tells me that my current capabilities are not sufficient to embrace an existence of that length, hence my comment about getting bored after a few thousand years. So I agree that our lives will be completely different and I think we will be also. Why are we so sure that our current selves actually want to change into those beings and that life? Why are we so sure that even if we get to those stages, we will not eventually want something different? Is it my imagination that is failing to see just a joyful eternal existence or your imagination that only allows for that possibility? I don't see how anything but creation could be interesting after a couple of million years. 1
strappinglad Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 47 minutes ago, Calm said: I don't see how anything but creation could be interesting after a couple of million years. Time flies when you are having fun ! OK enough Strap . If the scriptures are interpreted correctly, with God it is one eternal 'now' . In mortality we see time pass, be it quickly or slowly. In the eternities time is not. I cannot imagine that situation but it peaks my interest. 1
JLHPROF Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Calm said: Everyone is one. Time and space appear to be irrelevant. When the head God called together the Council of the Gods to plan this creation, who do we think those council members were? The temple endowment shows who was sent to create this earth. All was done as it was in other worlds. I personally believe that Jehovah (a resurrected Savior) who had inherited his father's kingdom presides over each resurrected child of God as Michaels as we bring our spirit children through the veil. So I believe that when Christ, now called Jehovah (D&C 110) takes us as inheritance (becoming the Father as in the BOM, and Lord of Lords/King of Kings) then we will continue the pattern or creation.
JLHPROF Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Calm said: I don't see how anything but creation could be interesting after a couple of million years. Which is why I believe God progresses in more ways than just number of creations.
Stargazer Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 4 hours ago, strappinglad said: Time flies when you are having fun ! But to a frog, time's fun when you're having flies! 2
CA Steve Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, Calm said: I don't see how anything but creation could be interesting after a couple of million years. For the most part, responses here seems to be in the nature of speculation about what might happen, even my own objections are just that. For a really interesting novella by LDS author Steven Peck that does just that, speculate on what might be, I recommend reading A Short Stay in Hell. From the Amazon description. Quote An ordinary family man, geologist, and Mormon, Soren Johansson has always believed he’ll be reunited with his loved ones after death in an eternal hereafter. Then, he dies. Soren wakes to find himself cast by a God he has never heard of into a Hell whose dimensions he can barely grasp: a vast library he can only escape from by finding the book that contains the story of his life.In this haunting existential novella, author, philosopher, and ecologist Steven L. Peck explores a subversive vision of eternity, taking the reader on a journey through the afterlife of a world where everything everyone believed in turns out to be wrong. At least do yourself the favor of reading the first few paragraphs that can be read in the "Look Inside" feature on the link above. In the opening scene Peck provides a gripping description of a small group of recently deceased people, including a Mormon, confronting both a demon about to sentence them to some form of Hell and the fact that everything each one of them believed about the afterlife was wrong. Also he does a great job providing a sense to the reader what it actually might be like to experience a lifetime measured in billions of years and how that might affect such a being. Edited June 22, 2018 by CA Steve
Stargazer Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 On 6/21/2018 at 5:18 PM, mfbukowski said: I really enjoyed Calm's analogy of ordinances being part of a physical healing- kind of like an organ transplant or other medical treatment- and that is a good analogy for the point Givens makes as well . Oddly enough, people used to get baptised in the temple for their health! I seem to remember reading about this. 2
Popular Post Maidservant Posted June 23, 2018 Popular Post Posted June 23, 2018 (edited) On 6/20/2018 at 2:00 PM, CA Steve said: I have always wondered what I might be doing that would be still be of interest on 256th day in the 3,548,259,748,658th year of my existence. You're here! ha ha. 😁 So what are you doing right now . . . ? On 6/22/2018 at 7:37 AM, CA Steve said: At least do yourself the favor of reading the first few paragraphs that can be read in the "Look Inside" feature on the link above. I did and oh my gosh I need the whole book . . . On 6/20/2018 at 8:58 PM, Robert F. Smith said: Anyone in higher kingdoms of glory can visit the lower kingdoms. This is already the case. Anyone who understands some principle of life and being and has the capacity to live it, still can stop living it and/or can still understand or have empathy for what it is like to pass through the struggle before. But the person who has not yet comprehended (not just mentally but bodily) a given principle of being and life and gained capacity, just--hasn't and cannot comprehend, live, or 'visit'. Until the moment when he/she does 'enter'. This is true of even something like doing motor cycle tricks . . . something oh my gosh they fly! I want to fly! . . . but I can't 'visit' that because I haven't prepared myself and lived the law of it (and will have to wait for another lifetime at this point!) . . . even though motor cycle trick people can still walk on the ground like us mere mortals lol ('visit'). Another example, my best friend is non-lds. We are close enough to call each other sisters. [TOOK THIS SENTENCE OUT TO SEE IF IT IS THE REASON I COULDN'T MAKE THE POST BECAUSE OF TRIGGER WORDS. Edit two: It was. Okay, let's just say I described the places we like to go together, a little worldly.] I do enjoy my time with her at these places even though it isn't my first druthers--but my enjoyment is actually her company. I can be there for as long as I want with her. When I go to the temple, she can't go with me, no matter how deep our friendship. Not simply in terms of 'entrance at the front door', but she has no idea of the foundational principles of what is required, what are the (amazing) consequences, how to sustain living like that with those kinds of covenants and principles, and there is really no way for me to explain it to her, unless she chooses it for herself and finds out for herself; and, truthfully, she has no desire for it. She can't 'visit'--not simply the temple itself, as a building, but the temple life, as in, a life founded upon and centered around the temple (i.e. the covenants and what is yielded from those covenants). (Edit: The building is actually something she COULD enter--see open house below; so the building itself isn't the crux of it. Rather it is the kind of spirit she doesn't know and isn't prepared to handle and be responsible for and understand its enjoyment. So . . . she doesn't have to . . . she is free from it.) Until the day that she can and will. Since this is a true story, I will mention fyi that she has expressed a desire to go to a temple open house, I do believe she brought it up, not me . . . sooo . . . . I am actually excited to conduct her (my sister) into/through a temple very soon together. So she can get her first taste of comprehension of what it might possibly be like for her . . . Edited June 23, 2018 by Maidservant 5
Kenngo1969 Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 On 6/21/2018 at 7:51 PM, strappinglad said: Time flies when you are having fun ! OK enough Strap . If the scriptures are interpreted correctly, with God it is one eternal 'now' . In mortality we see time pass, be it quickly or slowly. In the eternities time is not. I cannot imagine that situation but it peaks my interest. Peaks? (Climbed any mountains lately?) Peeks? (You weren't supposed to look!) Piques! (Yep! This conversation captures my interest, as well!) "Oh, them homophones is tricky thangs." --Dr. Festus Doofus, Ph.D., Professor of English, University of Southern Nowhere 1
mfbukowski Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said: Peaks? (Climbed any mountains lately?) Peeks? (You weren't supposed to look!) Piques! (Yep! This conversation captures my interest, as well!) "Oh, them homophones is tricky thangs." --Dr. Festus Doofus, Ph.D., Professor of English, University of Southern Nowhere Ahhh Homophony has been re-established. 2
Kenngo1969 Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Ahhh Homophony has been re-established. Who you callin' a phony? Huh, huh, huh?! You wanna fight me, huh, huh, huh?! Edited June 23, 2018 by Kenngo1969 1
JLHPROF Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 4 hours ago, Stargazer said: Oddly enough, people used to get baptised in the temple for their health! I seem to remember reading about this. Why is that odd? It was a practice of the Church for decades. Baptism for health, rebaptism for various reasons. It started in Joseph's day and continued for almost a century.
Kenngo1969 Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 I know the broad outlines of the Plan of Salvation as they are taught in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and I have no reason to question them, but, as the old saying goes, "The devil is in the details," and those I don't know: What's it going to be like to not be bound by mortal constraints of time, space, evil, a fallen world, a sinful nature (being a "natural man"), and so on? What's it going to be like for a spirit to be free of a mortal body's limitations, or to be resurrected? Sorry. No clue! The only thing I know for certain is that an All-Wise, All-Loving, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Lord of the Universe is going to have to tell any of us, "I know you were expecting something more, something better, or at least something ... different ... and I know this means that it sucks to be you, but ... sorry. This is the best I could do."
mfbukowski Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 (edited) 55 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: Why is that odd? It was a practice of the Church for decades. Baptism for health, rebaptism for various reasons. It started in Joseph's day and continued for almost a century. I am just beginning to get a glimmer of understanding about why that was done. This notion of ordinances making a difference to us physically is a fascinating one. We have the reference in section 84 I believe about the renewing of our bodies which links in I am sure. And I know that I have been the recipient of health miracles on more than one occasion. And that is also in my patriarchal blessing. The scoffers will scoff but this is for real. We who know, know. And that cannot be taken away. And then there is actually scientific evidence for it in what the secularists call the placebo effect. If spirit is actually matter then it all makes perfect sense. Mind Over Matter? No, mind IS matter. And we will not go into that here but think of the implications then for the proclamation and the physical IS the spititual. Marriage is not only about love. The concept of one flesh takes on New Dimensions. Dictated excuse weird capitalization. Edited June 23, 2018 by mfbukowski 1
strappinglad Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said: Peaks? (Climbed any mountains lately?) I suppose I could have said , " the idea brings my interest to a peak " , but I might have done so in a fit of pique . 1
mfbukowski Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 55 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: I am just beginning to get a glimmer of understanding about why that was done. This notion of ordinances making a difference to us physically is a fascinating one. We have the reference in section 84 I believe about the renewing of our bodies which links in I am sure. And I know that I have been the recipient of health miracles on more than one occasion. And that is also in my patriarchal blessing. The scoffers will scoff but this is for real. We who know, know. And that cannot be taken away. And then there is actually scientific evidence for it in what the secularists call the placebo effect. If spirit is actually matter then it all makes perfect sense. Mind Over Matter? No, mind IS matter. And we will not go into that here but think of the implications then for the proclamation and the physical IS the spititual. Marriage is not only about love. The concept of one flesh takes on New Dimensions. Dictated excuse weird capitalization. Here is a fascinating article from a Catholic perspective on the origins of a similar belief, full of references to the early church. https://www.hprweb.com/2015/05/the-indelible-mark/
Stargazer Posted June 24, 2018 Posted June 24, 2018 21 hours ago, JLHPROF said: Why is that odd? It was a practice of the Church for decades. Baptism for health, rebaptism for various reasons. It started in Joseph's day and continued for almost a century. It was odd because when I first heard of it, I had never heard of it. And we don't do it today, so it's odd. I've only been in this church for 52 years, so I'm a newbie compared to you!
Maidservant Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 There is a (new?) Mormon Message video on the front page of lds.org. I didn't watch the video. Its contents are regarding family history work. But I found the title rather telling and intriguing and immediately thought of this thread. The title is: Gathering the Family of God. 1
DennisTate Posted July 8, 2018 Posted July 8, 2018 On 6/20/2018 at 5:37 PM, Duncan said: How does the sealing of families work in the next life? does it mean you can associate with them forever or what about people that don't get sealed or aren't faithful to their covenants? it sounds nice to be sealed as a family but what is the lived experience in the next life, is what I am wondering! Like if don't make it but my sister does and she becomes a God with her Hubbie can she visit me or she won't or can't or what? Reading this chapter may help to answer that question......https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-41-the-postmortal-spirit-world?lang=eng
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