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Dose that church believe America is fully Responsible for the deafeat of Nazi Germany?


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Is it true that the church states that Nazi Germany's defeat is an American Victory. That it is because America is a Blessed land. That this defeat would not have taken place if America was not involved or existed. Please supply suportive facts, such as Talks given by Church leadership/ presidency and scriptures. 

 

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2 minutes ago, St.Pat42082 said:

. Please supply suportive facts, such as Talks given by Church leadership/ presidency and scriptures. 

 

It is hard to prove a negative...that the Church doesn't have a statement like that...especially since most of the online stuff is from 1970 on.  Perhaps it would be better for you to post why you believe the Church made a statement like that.

If you are interested any references to Nazism, a site search of lds.org ( on google use "site:lds.org" and "Nazi") will bring up the couple of dozen or so references, which mostly appear to be telling stories of those who survived the destruction or who served their fellowmen during it.

Edited by Calm
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7 minutes ago, St.Pat42082 said:

Is it true that the church states that Nazi Germany's defeat is an American Victory. That it is because America is a Blessed land. That this defeat would not have taken place if America was not involved or existed. Please supply suportive facts, such as Talks given by Church leadership/ presidency and scriptures. 

 

No.

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I personally dont believe its true, just out of pure logic and hope in humanity, and faith in our Heavenly Father . I dont believe that Nazi Germany would have gone undefeated with out Americas involvement.  But a dear friend angrily swore by it. And insisted that I show cold hard facts prooving other wise. Facts I dont know at the moment. 

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Do you mean they swore the Church teaches that or that it is true?

i have never heard it taught at church.  Growing up I remember some nonmembers and possibly (don't remember WWII coming up at Church except maybe some vets speaking on holidays) some members talking that way (US History in high school had the US saving Europe to some extent...that was taught in California so likely elsewhere in the States, but no appeal to God in doing it), that would have been late 60s and early  70s, but haven't heard much that way lately anywhere.  My kids were not taught that church or school since they went to school in Canada.

I had a Canadian teacher for American history at BYU back in the 70s.  He defintely never said anything like that.  He used to tease us about how arrogant Americans are concerning history.

There are likely some American members who think that way and there are probably sites by those members that say it (I can think of two likely contenders), but these are not approved by the Church leadership in anyway. 

Edited by Calm
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2 hours ago, St.Pat42082 said:

Is it true that the church states that Nazi Germany's defeat is an American Victory. That it is because America is a Blessed land. That this defeat would not have taken place if America was not involved or existed. Please supply suportive facts, such as Talks given by Church leadership/ presidency and scriptures. 

 

Why would the church have a position on this?  

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2 hours ago, St.Pat42082 said:

I personally dont believe its true, just out of pure logic and hope in humanity, and faith in our Heavenly Father . I dont believe that Nazi Germany would have gone undefeated with out Americas involvement.  But a dear friend angrily swore by it. And insisted that I show cold hard facts prooving other wise. Facts I dont know at the moment. 

Any history book about WWII will describe the contributions of all the allies.  No single nation was responsible for the victory over the Nazis in Germany.  Too much blood was spilled by far too many nations for anyone to think that it was only because of the USA that the war was won in Europe.  

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3 hours ago, St.Pat42082 said:

Is it true that the church states that Nazi Germany's defeat is an American Victory. That it is because America is a Blessed land. That this defeat would not have taken place if America was not involved or existed. Please supply suportive facts, such as Talks given by Church leadership/ presidency and scriptures. 

The USA was a very significant element in the defeat of Germany & Japan, but I have never heard LDS leaders claim that it was an American victory.  In fact, the Red Army lost many more men than America did in the battle against the Third Reich.

 

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Years ago I read a book called The Secret War, in which it outlined the use of spies, deception, and intrigue to affect the war. What amazed me was how the lightest touch could massively change the outcome of a battle. It also showed that, without intervention( divine ? )  at critical times, Germany could have won the war or at least made it last years longer.

As has been said, the Church has not taught the US was super special in winning the war. Most historians will admit that Britain was on the edge after Dunkirk.

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10 hours ago, St.Pat42082 said:

I personally dont believe its true, just out of pure logic and hope in humanity, and faith in our Heavenly Father . I dont believe that Nazi Germany would have gone undefeated with out Americas involvement.  But a dear friend angrily swore by it. And insisted that I show cold hard facts prooving other wise. Facts I dont know at the moment. 

You asked the question, and now you are answering it for us? Nazi Germany was defeated by trying to wage war on to many fronts. With a combination of Nations on those fronts they were defeated. I have seen this argument and your responses around the Internet, and Facebook, why did you bring this here of all places? This is not a Mormon issue, it is an issue of history, not theology. But if you must, America is the world, we are Irish, German, Swiss, French, and English. It is what makes us such a great Nation, it is all the Nations of the Earth, and proudly so. 

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12 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

In fact, the Red Army lost many more men than America did in the battle against the Third Reich.

That's an understatement. 

The US had roughly 400,000 military dead versus 10 to 15 million for the Soviet Union.

The German army lost had approximately 10 times the number of dead on the eastern front versus the western.

 

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I have no idea whether anyone taught that in the church.   I doubt that it was an official church position.

But, there absolutely is evidence that American involvement in WWII changed the tide and made defeat of Hitler possible.   Would France (occupied) , Britain, Russia, Phillipines (pretty much on the run at the time) have been able to pull it out without the United States of America?

The discussion about whether the prophecies about this land should be interpreted to support political views, decisions, choices is an ongoing one.

 

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Never heard that.

Germany would have lost under the combined might of the U.K., the U.S.S.R., Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the other Allies, even without the United States. The U.S.S.R. gets the vast lion's share of the credit, even in our timeline, and would've received even more had the U.S. not entered the war.

That said, the war would have likely lasted longer, at greater cost, and possibly with most of Western Europe, including Italy and all of Germany, under communist rule.

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20 hours ago, St.Pat42082 said:

Is it true that the church states that Nazi Germany's defeat is an American Victory. That it is because America is a Blessed land. That this defeat would not have taken place if America was not involved or existed. Please supply suportive facts, such as Talks given by Church leadership/ presidency and scriptures. 

 

Why don’t you supply supportive facts for your silly hypothesis first? The burden of proof is on you. Good luck!

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3 hours ago, rpn said:

...................................

But, there absolutely is evidence that American involvement in WWII changed the tide and made defeat of Hitler possible.   ......................

Yes.  It is quite possible that without the Americans to contend with, the Germans could have conquered the Soviet Union.  Rommel would have taken Egypt, in addition to North Africa.  South Africa would have fully joined with the Germans.  England would have been decimated, and then conquered.  The Germans would have had all the oil and other resources to continue the war at a high pitch.  The Japanese Empire would have taken the entirety of Asia, including India and China.

Only America, with nearly endless resources and a massive army could fight a world war on two fronts and succeed.  Hitler would have been more than happy to make a deal with the USA to stay out of each other's affairs.  In addition, the USA Manhattan Project guaranteed that they could bring doomsday to any attacker in very short order.

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