New Revelations and the Future

[The Nehor]

I can't give my source but I can say that both of these major changes were being considered by the Apostles for a few years under President Monson. This was not rush job by President Nelson.

I can also say that these changes are only the beginning.

And for those who think this is a lesser law I can also say they are wrong.

The good ship Zion sails on.

[SteveO]

“But in coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost.”

I thought that a very solemn warning from President Nelson’s talk.

[Hamba Tuhan]

5 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I can't give my source but I can say that both of these major changes were being considered by the Apostles for a few years under President Monson. This was not rush job by President Nelson.

I can also say that these changes are only the beginning.

As I mentioned in another thread, we were told as much by Elder Bednar in a training meeting three years ago last February. You're right.

[Maidservant]

8 hours ago, The Nehor said:

And for those who think this is a lesser law I can also say they are wrong.

It has occurred to me in my personal ponderings that we have been living under the law of Moses meaning ultimately 'under the law' for a long time now, perhaps since the beginning.  The law has yet to be lifted (except for these recent glimpses and developments) from the Old Testament to the New Testament, and I have been wanting to read more in the New Testament and Book of Mormon about what to expect when the law lifts.  Of course, the law will be 'written in the fleshy tables of the heart' then.

[BillyandJane]

18 minutes ago, Maidservant said:

It has occurred to me in my personal ponderings that we have been living under the law of Moses meaning ultimately 'under the law' for a long time now, perhaps since the beginning.  The law has yet to be lifted (except for these recent glimpses and developments) from the Old Testament to the New Testament, and I have been wanting to read more in the New Testament and Book of Mormon about what to expect when the law lifts.  Of course, the law will be 'written in the fleshy tables of the heart' then.

The OT law has been fulfilled by the coming of Jesus Christ.  He came to fulfill the law “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.” (Matthew 5:17–18) This is simply saying that Christ didn't come to condemn the law, he didn't come to set it aside and come up with a whole new program independent of the law.  He came to fulfill it.  The whole point of the law was to point to Jesus.  The impossibility of the law to be kept as instructed was to show the people that without a Savior they would be lost.  So the Savior came and offered his holy and righteous blood as the great and last sacrifice, thus making the law of Moses obsolete.

His sacrifice ended the old law of animal sacrifice Hebrews 9:12, “He entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.”

Jesus is the new law: "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." (Romans 10:4)

And Jesus is now our High Priest who is forever more making intercession on our behalf before God.  The OT priests, being human, would die, making it necessary to get a new high priest, but Jesus being eternal is our last High Priest: Hebrews 7:22-25 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

And as you said, the law, upon the coming of Christ and His fulfillment of the law, would then be written on our hearts (2 Corinthians 3:3, Romans 2:15, Hebrews 10:16).  That has happened.  It simply means that God doesn't have a new set of laws to be followed precisely like the children of Israel did (because it never could be followed precisely), but that now Christ sends His spirit to believers and changes their hearts and leads them on a personal basis.  He is the Author and Finisher of our faith, and He, and He alone, knows how to succor in our times of need.  That is the gospel.  Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.  The law of Moses has been done away with.

[JLHPROF]

9 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I can't give my source but I can say that both of these major changes were being considered by the Apostles for a few years under President Monson. This was not rush job by President Nelson.

I can also say that these changes are only the beginning.

And for those who think this is a lesser law I can also say they are wrong.

The good ship Zion sails on.

- I'm sure these changes were under consideration under Pres. Monson.  I personally think the choice and plethora of usage of the term "minister" comes from Pres. Nelson.

- I'm sure these changes are just the beginning.

- You stating something is or isn't a higher or lesser law is just opinion unless you back it up.

- All is always well in Zion, right?

[Maidservant]

5 hours ago, BillyandJane said:

The OT law has been fulfilled by the coming of Jesus Christ.  He came to fulfill the law “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.” (Matthew 5:17–18) This is simply saying that Christ didn't come to condemn the law, he didn't come to set it aside and come up with a whole new program independent of the law.  He came to fulfill it.  The whole point of the law was to point to Jesus.  The impossibility of the law to be kept as instructed was to show the people that without a Savior they would be lost.  So the Savior came and offered his holy and righteous blood as the great and last sacrifice, thus making the law of Moses obsolete.

His sacrifice ended the old law of animal sacrifice Hebrews 9:12, “He entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.”

Jesus is the new law: "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." (Romans 10:4)

And Jesus is now our High Priest who is forever more making intercession on our behalf before God.  The OT priests, being human, would die, making it necessary to get a new high priest, but Jesus being eternal is our last High Priest: Hebrews 7:22-25 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

And as you said, the law, upon the coming of Christ and His fulfillment of the law, would then be written on our hearts (2 Corinthians 3:3, Romans 2:15, Hebrews 10:16).  That has happened.  It simply means that God doesn't have a new set of laws to be followed precisely like the children of Israel did (because it never could be followed precisely), but that now Christ sends His spirit to believers and changes their hearts and leads them on a personal basis.  He is the Author and Finisher of our faith, and He, and He alone, knows how to succor in our times of need.  That is the gospel.  Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.  The law of Moses has been done away with.

Thank you for your nice answer, but I am already aware of this level of understanding; and could not have ventured what I did without having this as its foundation.  Indeed, up until about a month ago, I would have made the same answer.

But since very few of us on earth are living as Christ would, then in our individual lives, Christ has not come, has he?  In us.  As I said--and only speaking regarding the development of the Church of Jesus Christ (of Latter-days)--it is some further pondering I am doing, that we have been 'under the law'--metaphorically if nothing else.  Maybe you had to be there in my head :), so sorry if it doesn't otherwise make sense.

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

- You stating something is or isn't a higher or lesser law is just opinion unless you back it up.

- All is always well in Zion, right?

- Can't without breaking a confidence. You are of course free to disbelieve me if you wish.

- No. I work too much in Zion to believe otherwise. That phrase though is not a blank check for condemning anything the Church or its leaders do.

[JLHPROF]

3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

No. I work too much in Zion to believe otherwise. That phrase though is not a blank check for condemning anything the Church or its leaders do.

Of course not.  I remember the warning of the prophet Joseph well and my temple covenants.  I do not condemn our leaders or the Church, nor do I call myself righteous.

I simply compare and contrast the revelation, doctrine, and ordinances restored by revelation straight from God and the heavens above through the Prophet Joseph Smith and systematized by his immediate successors against the Church today.

Seeing the differences, the plain and precious things lost, and the lack of recorded revelation that brought them about is easy to see.

But as I have repeatedly said here consistently God can course correct his own ship.  Not my place to do it, no matter how glaring the change from the early truths may be.

[Hamba Tuhan]

Whether it's pining for polygamy and ankle-length garments or restlessly awaiting what one is convinced is the inevitable capitulation on same-sex relationships, I honestly cannot imagine myself existing for long in a state of such constant disappointment mingled with endlessly hoping that God will finally right the ship. I would personally find it exhausting. But to each his own. 

Edited April 8, 2018 by Hamba Tuhan

[Duncan]

I wouldn't mind getting rid of like half the high council or more, it seems to take 12 people to do the job of 4. I would trim the 8, they don't seem to do a thing. I know it's scriptural thing to have 12 but hey one can hope!

[BillyandJane]

1 hour ago, Maidservant said:

Thank you for your nice answer, but I am already aware of this level of understanding; and could not have ventured what I did without having this as its foundation.  Indeed, up until about a month ago, I would have made the same answer.

But since very few of us on earth are living as Christ would, then in our individual lives, Christ has not come, has he?  In us.  As I said--and only speaking regarding the development of the Church of Jesus Christ (of Latter-days)--it is some further pondering I am doing, that we have been 'under the law'--metaphorically if nothing else.  Maybe you had to be there in my head :), so sorry if it doesn't otherwise make sense.

I'm glad you knew all that already, but I was not sure so I thought I'd answer.  And I'd say 99% of my thoughts fail to get expressed like I really want, so I get it! lol.   I will ask though, how is it do you think Jesus would be living that not very many people are living up to?  Speaking to the metaphorical law I would say that all those who try to obey one point of the law is guilty and responsible for all the law.  And it's only upon turning our hearts to Jesus do we get out from underneath the law.  Galatians 3 outlines this pretty good I think.  Justification comes by faith in Jesus and not by works of the law, because as the children of Israel showed us, the law is impossible to keep. So we trust that Jesus has paid our debt in full - He has purged (past tense, all paid) our sins (Hebrews 1:3) - and we trust that He will lead and guide us in where we need to go and in what we need to do, all the while being fully aware, as He is, that we will never not sin.  If we are breathing we are sinning, that's what I say.

[Hamba Tuhan]

23 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I wouldn't mind getting rid of like half the high council or more, it seems to take 12 people to do the job of 4. I would trim the 8, they don't seem to do a thing.

If they're doing what they're supposed to, it takes all 12!

This is actually a point our stake president and I discussed at length Thursday evening as we travelled the 100 km back from visiting a member.

[Duncan]

47 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

If they're doing what they're supposed to, it takes all 12!

This is actually a point our stake president and I discussed at length Thursday evening as we travelled the 100 km back from visiting a member.

well, wanna move here?! there appears to be more movement in a punching bag than our Stake

Edited April 9, 2018 by Duncan

[Avatar4321]

18 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I can't give my source but I can say that both of these major changes were being considered by the Apostles for a few years under President Monson. This was not rush job by President Nelson.

I can also say that these changes are only the beginning.

And for those who think this is a lesser law I can also say they are wrong.

The good ship Zion sails on.

If anything the ministering we are called to is a higher law

[Hamba Tuhan]

11 minutes ago, Duncan said:

well, wanna move here?! there appears to be more movement in a punching bag than our Stake

No, thanks... 

[Avatar4321]

1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

If they're doing what they're supposed to, it takes all 12!

This is actually a point our stake president and I discussed at length Thursday evening as we travelled the 100 km back from visiting a member.

I should study this more. I know virtually nothing about the high council

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Avatar4321 said:

If anything the ministering we are called to is a higher law

Agreed. I find it tremendously liberating but also more intensive. It should be exciting.

[Hamba Tuhan]

7 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

I know virtually nothing about the high council

The following alone, if done right, should overwhelm a high council (edited to remove reference to high priest groups):

Quote

To assist them in overseeing the Melchizedek Priesthood, the stake presidency assigns a high councilor to represent them in each elders quorum, ward, and branch in the stake. In this role, high councilors orient newly called elders quorum presidencies. They also provide ongoing encouragement, support, and instruction for these leaders, including instruction based on chapters 1–7 of this handbook. They meet with these leaders regularly to learn of their needs, teach them their duties, and communicate information from the stake presidency. They periodically attend meetings of the elders quorum, including elders quorum presidency meetings. They also attend bishopric, priesthood executive committee, and ward council meetings if invited or assigned.

The stake presidency assigns high councilors to work with the stake auxiliaries and programs listed in 15.1.2 (except for Church magazines if the stake executive secretary or someone else is assigned this responsibility). When a member of the stake presidency meets with a stake auxiliary presidency, the assigned high councilor attends this meeting. High councilors also attend the stake auxiliary leadership meetings for the auxiliaries to which they are assigned.

The stake presidency assigns high councilors to help oversee missionary work and temple and family history work in the stake (see 5.1.9 and 5.4.6).

When I was an elders quorum president in america, the high councilor assigned to my quorum attended every single quorum meeting, presidency meeting and quorum activity that we had, including our temple excursions. He also met with me one-on-one every single week for about 15 minutes.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Hamba Tuhan

[Avatar4321]

1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

The following alone, if done right, should overwhelm a high council (edited to remove reference to high priest groups):

When I was an elders quorum president in america, the high councilor assigned to my quorum attended every single quorum meeting, presidency meeting and quorum activity that we had, including our temple excursions. He also met with me one-on-one every single week for about 15 minutes.

When I've been in elders quorum presidencies this has not happened

[Hamba Tuhan]

2 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

When I've been in elders quorum presidencies this has not happened

Which is one reason I prefaced my statement with 'If they're doing what they're supposed to'... 

Edited April 9, 2018 by Hamba Tuhan

[mfbukowski]

15 hours ago, Maidservant said:

It has occurred to me in my personal ponderings that we have been living under the law of Moses meaning ultimately 'under the law' for a long time now, perhaps since the beginning.  The law has yet to be lifted (except for these recent glimpses and developments) from the Old Testament to the New Testament, and I have been wanting to read more in the New Testament and Book of Mormon about what to expect when the law lifts.  Of course, the law will be 'written in the fleshy tables of the heart' then.

Totally agree- it is time to complete the restoration.

We have been trying to please the sectarians for 150 years and it hasn't worked anyway.

[mfbukowski]

9 hours ago, Maidservant said:

Thank you for your nice answer, but I am already aware of this level of understanding; and could not have ventured what I did without having this as its foundation.  Indeed, up until about a month ago, I would have made the same answer.

But since very few of us on earth are living as Christ would, then in our individual lives, Christ has not come, has he?  In us.  As I said--and only speaking regarding the development of the Church of Jesus Christ (of Latter-days)--it is some further pondering I am doing, that we have been 'under the law'--metaphorically if nothing else.  Maybe you had to be there in my head :), so sorry if it doesn't otherwise make sense.

No it makes sense.  We are only half way there.

[mfbukowski]

7 hours ago, Duncan said:

I wouldn't mind getting rid of like half the high council or more, it seems to take 12 people to do the job of 4. I would trim the 8, they don't seem to do a thing. I know it's scriptural thing to have 12 but hey one can hope!

Sorry but you are wrong

You are welcome to take over my calling anytime- tell me when you move into my stake. 

 

[mfbukowski]

6 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

If they're doing what they're supposed to, it takes all 12!

This is actually a point our stake president and I discussed at length Thursday evening as we travelled the 100 km back from visiting a member.

Every organization in the stake has a HC rep and all the Wards too.

We train Elders and bishops, run organizations and train people, make sure ward councils are working properly, run family history and missionary programs, teach all the classes in a ward during ward conference and more.  I was in church meetings today literally for 8 hours of meetings and discussions due to needing to be in different wards which meet at different times.  But this week it was only two sacrament meetings.   Next week I teach the 14 year olds in one ward due to conference, do sustainings in another ward and set apart some new Elders Quorum leaders.   Week after that we have HC speaking assignments and a family history training that I have to put together.

It's not quite the picnic people think it is.