mfbukowski Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: The following alone, if done right, should overwhelm a high council (edited to remove reference to high priest groups): When I was an elders quorum president in america, the high councilor assigned to my quorum attended every single quorum meeting, presidency meeting and quorum activity that we had, including our temple excursions. He also met with me one-on-one every single week for about 15 minutes. That is precisely what we were discussing at 6:45 am this morning! Attending every EQ presidency meeting plus all the other responsibilities. 1 Link to comment
Hamba Tuhan Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 59 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: It's not quite the picnic people think it is. I'm just glad your high council is functioning appropriately! Too many in the Church do not. 1 Link to comment
Meerkat Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) 23 hours ago, BillyandJane said: The OT law has been fulfilled by the coming of Jesus Christ. He came to fulfill the law “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.” (Matthew 5:17–18 It appears to be a "Line upon line, precept by precept" process, not happening all at once. I agree with Maidservant's point. Return and report is an important management training principle. It should be like training wheels on a bicycle. At some point, when organization and work ethic are proven, the training wheels can come off. Otherwise, the administrators can become overwhelmed, neglecting the "Best" duties of building successful family relationships, which is where our primary energy should be invested. For decades, the Church has been preaching "Reduce and Simplify." But that has been in conflict with the idea of magnifying our callings. The new revelation encourages us to relax, and follow the Spirit. Take Home Teaching, for example: The idea "Where performance is measured, performance improves" was the driving force behind it. Doing our visits the last week of the month, giving the First Presidency message rather than what they needed or wanted seemed to me like a legalistic exercise. The style of monthly reporting reinforced the legalism, in my opinion. It seemed to be more policy and (micro) management driven. Yes, we tried to extend love within those parameters. But the reporting belied a works rather than love driven process. This first Sunday under the new revelation was a definite sea change experience for me. While our Church members have always been loving, my perception was that there was a certain restraint caused by the idea "My duty will be complete when I home teach you IN YOUR HOME. Let's see when we can coordinate our calendars." Today, there was more reaching out, visiting in the halls, a feeling of the unrestrained love of Christ flowing through the Church. Many years ago, the Church used to keep track of Temple attendance. Then we were directed not to track it any longer. The activity may have gone down. But the spiritual impact of attending out of love and desire rather than pride and vanity encouraged by monitoring, made a difference to me. I want to be clear that I'm not complaining about the old way. The Church was true then, and it's true now. I just feel we are moving to a truly love of Christ and our fellow beings centered paradigm rather than works centered. 23 hours ago, Maidservant said: It has occurred to me in my personal ponderings that we have been living under the law of Moses meaning ultimately 'under the law' for a long time now, perhaps since the beginning. The law has yet to be lifted (except for these recent glimpses and developments) from the Old Testament to the New Testament, and I have been wanting to read more in the New Testament and Book of Mormon about what to expect when the law lifts. Of course, the law will be 'written in the fleshy tables of the heart' then. Yes, let the interaction between the Holy Ghost and the "fleshy tables of the heart" guide our actions. By so doing, I believe His yoke will be easy, and His burden light. Edited April 9, 2018 by Meerkat 2 Link to comment
Stargazer Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 5 hours ago, mfbukowski said: Every organization in the stake has a HC rep and all the Wards too. We train Elders and bishops, run organizations and train people, make sure ward councils are working properly, run family history and missionary programs, teach all the classes in a ward during ward conference and more. I was in church meetings today literally for 8 hours of meetings and discussions due to needing to be in different wards which meet at different times. But this week it was only two sacrament meetings. Next week I teach the 14 year olds in one ward due to conference, do sustainings in another ward and set apart some new Elders Quorum leaders. Week after that we have HC speaking assignments and a family history training that I have to put together. It's not quite the picnic people think it is. I keep hoping to get called into the high council because they get to give talks every month, and I love giving talks in church. But as for the rest of it.... don't know if I would be very good at that! 1 Link to comment
Avatar4321 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 5 hours ago, mfbukowski said: Totally agree- it is time to complete the restoration. We have been trying to please the sectarians for 150 years and it hasn't worked anyway. What to you mean by complete the restoration? 1 Link to comment
Avatar4321 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Meerkat said: It appears to be a "Line upon line, precept by precept" process, not happening all at once. I agree with Maidservant's point. Return and report is an important management training principle. It should be like training wheels on a bicycle. At some point, when organization and work ethic are proven, the training wheels can come off. Otherwise, the administrators can become overwhelmed, neglecting the "Best" duties of building successful family relationships, which is where our primary energy should be invested. For decades, the Church has been preaching "Reduce and Simplify." But that has been in conflict with the idea of magnifying our callings. The new revelation encourages us to relax, and follow the Spirit. Take Home Teaching, for example: The idea "Where performance is measured, performance improves" was the driving force behind it. Doing our visits the last week of the month, giving the First Presidency message rather than what they needed or wanted seemed to me like a legalistic exercise. The style of monthly reporting reinforced the legalism, in my opinion. It seemed to be more policy and (micro) management driven. Yes, we tried to extend love within those parameters. But the reporting belied a works rather than love driven process. This first Sunday under the new revelation was a definite sea change experience for me. While our Church members have always been loving, my perception was that there was a certain restraint caused by the idea "My duty will be complete when I home teach you IN YOUR HOME. Let's see when we can coordinate our calendars." Today, there was more reaching out, visiting in the halls, a feeling of the unrestrained love of Christ flowing through the Church. Many years ago, the Church used to monitor Temple attendance. Then we were directed not to monitor any longer. The activity may have gone down. But the spiritual impact of attending out of love and desire rather than pride and vanity encouraged by monitoring made a difference to me. I'm not complaining about the old way. The Church was true then, and it's true now. I just feel we are moving to a truly love of Christ and our fellow beings centered paradigm rather than works centered. Yes, let the interaction between the Holy Ghost and the "fleshy tables of the heart" guide our actions. By so doing, I believe His yoke will be easy, and His burden light. In a way, we are being treated as adults. Not saying were were treated as children before, as we grow up we learn that letter of the law isn't as important as spirit of the Lord. Instead of our motivation being to report 100%, or motivation should and will be love for them. (Though I hops it was all along) 1 Link to comment
Avatar4321 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 28 minutes ago, Stargazer said: I keep hoping to get called into the high council because they get to give talks every month, and I love giving talks in church. But as for the rest of it.... don't know if I would be very good at that! There is always fast and testimony meeting.;) Link to comment
Avatar4321 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 5 hours ago, mfbukowski said: No it makes sense. We are only half way there. Living on a prayer:) 2 Link to comment
Meerkat Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) Deleted. Could be misunderstood. Edited April 9, 2018 by Meerkat Link to comment
Popular Post Stargazer Posted April 9, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 9, 2018 7 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said: There is always fast and testimony meeting.;) Well, no. I know what F&T meeting is for, and it isn't for giving impromptu talks! On that subject, since we had a couple of persons who always seemed to give a travelogue or a mini-talk when they bore their testimonies (which was nearly every month), on one Fast Sunday about 5 or 6 years ago I made sure to come to the stand right after the bishopric member, and bore my testimony after telling the members that what I really wanted to do was give a talk, but since testimony meeting was for testimonies and not talks or travelogues, I would control myself and just bear my testimony. And then I did. It was a tactic, by being first, and perhaps the maximum number would be listening. Just my little contribution to the good of the order, as it were. AND IT WORKED! The one young man who had been bearing his testimony by way of giving a mini-talk (almost a sermon) nearly every other fast meeting since he was 5 or 6 years old, came to the stand shortly afterwards and commented upon what I had said, saying he was going to follow my example! And from then on, he never again gave a talk, and instead bore his testimony! 6 Link to comment
Duncan Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 6 hours ago, mfbukowski said: Every organization in the stake has a HC rep and all the Wards too. We train Elders and bishops, run organizations and train people, make sure ward councils are working properly, run family history and missionary programs, teach all the classes in a ward during ward conference and more. I was in church meetings today literally for 8 hours of meetings and discussions due to needing to be in different wards which meet at different times. But this week it was only two sacrament meetings. Next week I teach the 14 year olds in one ward due to conference, do sustainings in another ward and set apart some new Elders Quorum leaders. Week after that we have HC speaking assignments and a family history training that I have to put together. It's not quite the picnic people think it is. Not where I am! our HC doesn't train, we never see our guy except he showed up once to do the audit, he never ever comes to ward council, has never called me or shows up to our ward. The Bishop has complained about him even, that went nowhere it seems. Our HC over missionary work attends the Catholic Church. One guy was totally inactive until he got called to the HC and what mystery, he's still inactive unless the stake shows then he shows up. he works though in Alberta, so he's probably out there doing whatever. Back to the HC over missionary work, he was plagiarizing old conference talks and I busted him on it. I sent an email, with links of where he was reading it off verbatim and a "how to" on how to give talks in church. I used to go out with the HC as speaking companion, you know what we did? just spoke and sometimes stayed for the rest of Church. We never,ever attended any of their presidency meetings or even the HC. We would hang out until church started, gave our talks and left. Or if there was a potluck we would stay for that. That seems the norm here, you give a conference talk and then leave. I thought and think what a useless calling. I was never set apart or sustained or my counselours were never set apart or sustained by the HC, it was all stake presidency. The previous EQP was sustained in our ward a glitch the Bishop made but the HC never caught it and apparently-according to the bishop, never said boo about it. It seems, here, anyways a throw away calling. Give some guy a title and maybe he'll come back to church, maybe or maybe not. Like mission presidency counselours, give him a badge, people call him "President", stroke his ego for five years and then onto the next "what-exactly-do-they-do-calling?" Link to comment
Marginal Gains Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 Nelson’s version of revelation is indistinguishable from normal corporate decision making processes, except they (corporate decision making processes) happen much faster and with more reliable and effective results. Link to comment
Stargazer Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Duncan said: Not where I am! our HC doesn't train, we never see our guy except he showed up once to do the audit, he never ever comes to ward council, has never called me or shows up to our ward. The Bishop has complained about him even, that went nowhere it seems. Our HC over missionary work attends the Catholic Church. One guy was totally inactive until he got called to the HC and what mystery, he's still inactive unless the stake shows then he shows up. he works though in Alberta, so he's probably out there doing whatever. Back to the HC over missionary work, he was plagiarizing old conference talks and I busted him on it. I sent an email, with links of where he was reading it off verbatim and a "how to" on how to give talks in church. I used to go out with the HC as speaking companion, you know what we did? just spoke and sometimes stayed for the rest of Church. We never,ever attended any of their presidency meetings or even the HC. We would hang out until church started, gave our talks and left. Or if there was a potluck we would stay for that. That seems the norm here, you give a conference talk and then leave. I thought and think what a useless calling. I was never set apart or sustained or my counselours were never set apart or sustained by the HC, it was all stake presidency. The previous EQP was sustained in our ward a glitch the Bishop made but the HC never caught it and apparently-according to the bishop, never said boo about it. It seems, here, anyways a throw away calling. Give some guy a title and maybe he'll come back to church, maybe or maybe not. Like mission presidency counselours, give him a badge, people call him "President", stroke his ego for five years and then onto the next "what-exactly-do-they-do-calling?" You seem to live in a very odd stake. 3 Link to comment
Popular Post The Nehor Posted April 9, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, mfbukowski said: No it makes sense. We are only half way there. One could even say we are living on a prayer. Edit: Someone else made the joke first. I have failed. I will see myself out. Edited April 9, 2018 by The Nehor 5 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted April 9, 2018 Author Share Posted April 9, 2018 26 minutes ago, Marginal Gains said: Nelson’s version of revelation is indistinguishable from normal corporate decision making processes, except they (corporate decision making processes) happen much faster and with more reliable and effective results. You work in a corporate environment where everything is governed by unanimity? Are they hiring? 3 Link to comment
Marginal Gains Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, The Nehor said: You work in a corporate environment where everything is governed by unanimity? Are they hiring? I work in an environment where leadership teams debate and contest and argue, reach an agreed consensus and then portray a united front to the workforce. Don’t you? Link to comment
The Nehor Posted April 9, 2018 Author Share Posted April 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Marginal Gains said: I work in an environment where leadership teams debate and contest and argue, reach an agreed consensus and then portray a united front to the workforce. Don’t you? No. Do they pray and act on inspiration too? Do you work at the COB? 1 Link to comment
Marginal Gains Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, The Nehor said: No. Do they pray and act on inspiration too? Do you work at the COB? On what basis have prayer and inspiration been shown to be a material advantage when applied to corporate/church administration decision making? Link to comment
Popular Post The Nehor Posted April 9, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted April 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Marginal Gains said: On what basis have prayer and inspiration been shown to be a material advantage when applied to corporate/church administration decision making? People get to go on into an eternal fullness of joy. Most corporations don’t offer that package except to a few select executives. 5 Link to comment
mfbukowski Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 23 minutes ago, Marginal Gains said: On what basis have prayer and inspiration been shown to be a material advantage when applied to corporate/church administration decision making? Why is that methodology even relevant? The product here is giving people meaning in their lives. I am not aware of any evidence that that methodology has been shown to be effective in doing so. Link to comment
Somebodyz Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) 21 hours ago, JLHPROF said: - I'm sure these changes were under consideration under Pres. Monson. I personally think the choice and plethora of usage of the term "minister" comes from Pres. Nelson. - I'm sure these changes are just the beginning. - You stating something is or isn't a higher or lesser law is just opinion unless you back it up. - All is always well in Zion, right? Is holier similar to higher? Weirdly I was sure President Nelson said higher law during Conference, yet seem to be wrong, when reading it later. "Instead, we will implement a newer, holier approach to caring for and ministering to others." President Russell M. Nelson. Edited April 9, 2018 by Somebodyz Link to comment
mfbukowski Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 37 minutes ago, Marginal Gains said: I work in an environment where leadership teams debate and contest and argue, reach an agreed consensus and then portray a united front to the workforce. Don’t you? Sounds like High Council to me. I guess we are missing the mark then. Except when I am there. Link to comment
Exiled Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 22 minutes ago, The Nehor said: People get to go on into an eternal fullness of joy. Most corporations don’t offer that package except to a few select executives. I have a hard time seeing organizational fine tuning as revelation. Maybe I need more reinforcement to get me to see something that doesn't seem to be there? Link to comment
mfbukowski Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Avatar4321 said: What to you mean by complete the restoration? We still think like Protestants and are too worried about what they think about for example Eternal progression and the Council of the Gods Etc. We need to affirm more clearly that God is a glorified Human and we are his children and we look forward to glorifying all of humanity. Our objectives are much like those of humanism but a humanism that has theism as its prime directive, and that itself is based on the Insight that God himself is a glorified human or must be thought of that way. That view glorifies real Humanity not some Cloud floating in space. Our goal needs to be stated in terms of bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of humanity, through the sacrifice and Resurrection of the very human ideal, Jesus Christ. No more arguments about faith versus works which lead nowhere. No more arguments about our Jesus versus your Jesus. No more arguments about the nature of the trinity. Never again a mention of the word consubstantial . All that is nonsense. No more worrying about the historicity of any Scripture. That is irrelevant to the concepts found in the scriptures No more worrying about science being in conflict with the scriptures. They are both true within their given context. All truth is to be tested in terms of Alma 32 and its pragmatic value in a given context. We are all part of the family of God. That's all there is to it. We are all brothers and sisters. Our goal is to make the world understand that. We want to grow up and become just like our Heavenly parents. The process is as natural as can be. And all that can be taken literally or allegorically whichever works for the individual. In my never humble opinion I think that is the direction we need to go. Edited April 9, 2018 by mfbukowski 1 Link to comment
Popular Post Gray Posted April 9, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 9, 2018 On 4/8/2018 at 1:36 AM, The Nehor said: I can also say that these changes are only the beginning. Please let it be the two hour block. Please let it be the two hour block. 5 Link to comment
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