FormerLDS Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 1 hour ago, pogi said: Quote Luke 8: 6) And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up [i.e. "alive"], it withered away [i.e. "dies"], because it lacked moisture. And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it [i.e. it was alive until the thorns chocked it and killed it] 7) Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12) Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13) They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. 14) And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. 15) But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. Once alive, patience, endurance, and perseverance in belief are required to prevent falling away. Clear as day. "Withered away" is not dead. There were "withered" people at the pool of Bathesda. Were they dead? Certainly not, but they lacked growth and maturity. Similarly, the seed that grows but is choked becomes unfruitful, but is not dead. Once again, those who believe and fall away during temptation are still saved. They've just fallen away from their faith and belief. it is impossible for those who have been born again to be re-born as Hebrews 6:6 tells us. Eternal life is irreversible. Doesn't James 2 say that "faith without works is dead"? Our faith can die because our faith is our works, but our faith (works) cannot save us, and as James 2:1 plainly says it is the "faith of Jesus Christ" that saves and is alive within those who have his Gift of eternal life.
Anakin7 Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/esimputedrighteousness.htm 2 hours ago, Anakin7 said: http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/esimputedrighteousness.htm Also FormerLDS needs to understand that there are 2 Salvations - past tense and future tense in The Bible which is directly connected to the Response to those within the OSAS House. http://www.christian-history.org/not-by-faith-alone.html The Atonement It is The Central Doctrine Washing My Garment in His Blood In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 LDS Sentinel, Son Of Thunder Kryptonian Warrior Edited February 28, 2018 by Anakin7
FormerLDS Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said: So, you have only seen in in some mystical or figurative way. Apparently you do not accept the plain meaning of John 6:40. You still haven’t answered the question. If we were to see him today, if he were to come in and sup with us, would he have the same body that he showed to Mary and his disciples after his resurrection? Mystical or figurative? Depends on what eyes and ears you are using. What was the Savior referring to when he said "Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive" Matthew 13:13-14 There are those who see the Savior today and there are those who do not. There are those who hear His voice and those who do not. Which are you?
Anakin7 Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: Mystical or figurative? Depends on what eyes and ears you are using. What was the Savior referring to when he said "Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive" Matthew 13:13-14 There are those who see the Savior today and there are those who do not. There are those who hear His voice and those who do not. Which are you? http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/eternallife.htm If link does not open type address in your Bar above. The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine Washing My Garment In His Blood In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin LDS Sentinel, Son Of Thunder, Kryptonian, Warrior Edited February 28, 2018 by Anakin7
Teancum Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 37 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: "Withered away" is not dead. There were "withered" people at the pool of Bathesda. Were they dead? Certainly not, but they lacked growth and maturity. Similarly, the seed that grows but is choked becomes unfruitful, but is not dead. Once again, those who believe and fall away during temptation are still saved. They've just fallen away from their faith and belief. it is impossible for those who have been born again to be re-born as Hebrews 6:6 tells us. Eternal life is irreversible. Doesn't James 2 say that "faith without works is dead"? Our faith can die because our faith is our works, but our faith (works) cannot save us, and as James 2:1 plainly says it is the "faith of Jesus Christ" that saves and is alive within those who have his Gift of eternal life. The argument over eternal security or no eternal security is endless and has been going on for hundreds of years. That's what happens when we use a text that is viewed as the perfect word of God but that clearly has numerous contradictions and can be spun to back up many beliefs. Perhaps someday humans will advance beyond such nonsense.
FormerLDS Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Calm said: Where does the parable ever indicate the seed was anything but living in all conditions to begin with? But the plant that grew from the seeds sometimes died after living. So unless you believe the seed is always a seed and never grows, the parable has several examples of the living seed dying in the wrong conditions. " That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2 Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred,sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”" The seed in all conditions was good, thus when it fell on good ground it grew. It also grew (had life) on rocky ground unless you somehow believe that dead seeds can grow. The plant the seed grew into died, however, when the soil was not good. The "seed" is the Word of God which is living and able to form new life within the heart. The seed cannot die because it is "incorruptible" (1 Peter 1:23). Likewise, life which comes from an incorruptible seed cannot die. Did the Savior not tell us plainly that "whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die." Those who have eternal life, have the eternal, living seed of life within. They were dead and they are now made alive! "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." John 5:24
FormerLDS Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, Teancum said: The argument over eternal security or no eternal security is endless and has been going on for hundreds of years. That's what happens when we use a text that is viewed as the perfect word of God but that clearly has numerous contradictions and can be spun to back up many beliefs. Perhaps someday humans will advance beyond such nonsense. Just keep it simple. "He that hath the Son hath eternal life. He that hath not the Son hath not eternal life." How difficult is that? Did your gospel give you eternal life or not? Very simple.
Teancum Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 1 minute ago, FormerLDS said: Just keep it simple. "He that hath the Son hath eternal life. He that hath not the Son hath not eternal life." How difficult is that? Did your gospel give you eternal life or not? Very simple. I don't believe texts written thousands of years ago are any form of ultimate truth that determines our eternal destiny. And I can argue both sides with the Bible but have long moved past that effort.
Anakin7 Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 8 minutes ago, Teancum said: I don't believe texts written thousands of years ago are any form of ultimate truth that determines our eternal destiny. And I can argue both sides with the Bible but have long moved past that effort. 11 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: Just keep it simple. "He that hath the Son hath eternal life. He that hath not the Son hath not eternal life." How difficult is that? Did your gospel give you eternal life or not? Very simple. You must Believe or have a Belief which in greek is a continuous action. same as "hath" which means you are walking in the light of His True Grace, if you don't walk In The Light of His True Grace it means your Believing/Belief are not in action and your 'hath" is taken away. The Atonement, It Is The Central Doctrine, Washing My Garment/Robe In His Blood In His Eternal Debt/Grace, Anakin7 LDS Sentinel, Son Of Thunder, Kryptonian, Warrior 2
Calm Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 Former, what does Christ do to that which is/who are "unfruitful"?? 3
pogi Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 1 hour ago, FormerLDS said: "Withered away" is not dead. There were "withered" people at the pool of Bathesda. Were they dead? Certainly not, but they lacked growth and maturity. Similarly, the seed that grows but is choked becomes unfruitful, but is not dead. Once again, those who believe and fall away during temptation are still saved. They've just fallen away from their faith and belief. it is impossible for those who have been born again to be re-born as Hebrews 6:6 tells us. Eternal life is irreversible. Doesn't James 2 say that "faith without works is dead"? Our faith can die because our faith is our works, but our faith (works) cannot save us, and as James 2:1 plainly says it is the "faith of Jesus Christ" that saves and is alive within those who have his Gift of eternal life. No, those who fall away are "severed" from Christ and fall away from grace: Quote Galatians 5:4 ESV You are severed from Christ...you have fallen away from grace. Those who are withered and choked by thorns and thistles will be thrown away and "burned". Those who do not bring forth fruit will be cut off and burned. John 15:6 Quote If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. Quote Hebrews 6 ESV 4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. 7 For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned. 9 Though we speak in this way, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things—things that belong to salvation. 10 For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for his name in serving the saints, as you still do. 11 And we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness to have the full assurance of hope until the end, 12 so that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises. Those who wither and are chocked and who do not produce fruit from good soil (though they believe for a short time), do not abide in the Lord or the Lord in him: Quote John 15:1-27 ESV “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit... Don't become too sure of yourself, "but fear", because you too can still be broken off as the natural branches were. Quote Romans 11 17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root[c] of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. If you continue on sinning after receiving the truth, it will be for you as if there was no sacrifice for your sins: Quote Hebrews 10:26-29 ESV For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries... How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people." If we do not keep the commandments but continue in sin, then we "are not in him", and thus not saved! Quote 1 John 2:1-3:24 ESV My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: ... Only those who endure to the end and do not fall away will be saved: Quote Matthew 24:10-13 ESV And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. The last state has become worse then the first if you turn away and are overcome...yikes! Quote 2 Peter 2:20-22 ESV For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.” More good ones: Quote Revelation 2:4-5 ESV But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent. Quote Hebrews 3:12-19 ESV Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end. As it is said, “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.” For who were those who heard and yet rebelled? Was it not all those who left Egypt led by Moses? ... Quote Hebrews 6:4-6 ESV For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. Quote James 1:12 ESV Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him. Quote Hebrews 10:39 ESV But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls. Quote 1 Thessalonians 3:8 ESV For now we live, if you are standing fast in the Lord. Quote Revelation 3:1-3 ESV “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: ‘The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. “‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God. Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you. 3
FormerLDS Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Teancum said: I don't believe texts written thousands of years ago are any form of ultimate truth that determines our eternal destiny. And I can argue both sides with the Bible but have long moved past that effort. Belief is a choice we all must make. Do you believe "ultimate truth" exists?
Okrahomer Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 1 hour ago, FormerLDS said: Belief is a choice we all must make. How do you reconcile this statement with your belief in OSAS? The entire idea is built upon the doctrine of predestination which denies that humans have any “choice” when it comes to salvation.
SamIam Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, FormerLDS said: Actually still reading. I'm not a protestant, and have never of these people before. Hey I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinions right! Thanks for sharing, just haven't really had time to read it all, but very informative. [Their opinions doen't change how I perceive the scriptures, but good reading nonetheless.] I'm not going to plead my case that you in courtesy should respond to my illustration that your doctrine, as you present it is not what the other great Christian spokesman see in the scriptures. However, your unwillingness to address the issue is exceptionally telling. You my good sir are a fraud. You have an ax to grind against the LDS for reasons unclear. You come here ostensibly with a proselytes objective but without the proper understanding or willingness to truly speak to scriptural instruction. You wrest the scriptures with nothing but personal interpretations and you fail on all points of being a true servant of the Lord. It is unfortunate that the angst that is clear in you has not been addressed. I hope someday you can achieve better. Edited March 1, 2018 by SamIam 2
Meerkat Posted March 1, 2018 Author Posted March 1, 2018 (edited) This one scripture utterly refutes the idea of Eternal Security, that a person cannot fall away. Add all the other scriptures here that refute it, and you have testimony of the risk of teaching the doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved. Such a doctrine gives tacit permission to commit adultery, murder or any other sin without the risk of losing one's eternal salvation. Anyone who teaches that doctrinal lie puts their own salvation and those they teach at precarious eternal risk, in my opinion. Those who teach Conditional Security, Christ's teaching of enduring to the end, are building their spiritual house on a rock. I see no risk in teaching the doctrine of faith, obedience and enduring to the end. 3 hours ago, pogi said: Hebrews 6:4-6 ESV For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt Matthew 24 "11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. (I believe teachers of Once Saved Always Saved fall into the false prophet category. The "many false prophets" statement does not preclude God sending true prophets.) 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Mark 13:13 "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." THOSE are the words of Jesus Christ. What does it mean, to endure to the end, if not endure in righteousness in the faith that saved us from our lives of sin and sorrow? Edited March 1, 2018 by Meerkat 3
Anakin7 Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Meerkat said: This one scripture utterly refutes the idea of Eternal Security, that a person cannot fall away. Add all the other scriptures here that refute it, and you have testimony of the risk of teaching the doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved. Such a doctrine gives tacit permission to commit adultery, murder or any other sin without the risk of losing one's eternal salvation. Anyone who teaches that doctrinal lie puts their own salvation and those they teach at precarious eternal risk, in my opinion. Those who teach Conditional Security, Christ's teaching of enduring to the end, are building their spiritual house on a rock. I see no risk in teaching the doctrine of faith, obedience and enduring to the end. Matthew 24 "11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. (I believe teachers of Once Saved Always Saved fall into the false prophet category. The "many false prophets" statement does not preclude God sending true prophets.) 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Mark 13:13 "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." THOSE are the words of Jesus Christ. What does it mean, to endure to the end, if not endure in righteousness in the faith that saved us from our lives of sin and sorrow? Meerkat - Add this as well from some non LDS christians that agree with us on this subject/topic of True Salvation Soteriology - http://www.gospelway.com/salvation/eternal_security.php The Atonement It Is The entrap Doctrine Washing My Garment/Robe In His Blood In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 LDS Sentinel, Son Of Thunder, Kryptonian, Warrior Edited March 1, 2018 by Anakin7 1
Bernard Gui Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, FormerLDS said: Mystical or figurative? Depends on what eyes and ears you are using. What was the Savior referring to when he said "Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive" Matthew 13:13-14 There are those who see the Savior today and there are those who do not. There are those who hear His voice and those who do not. Which are you? Which of course is not a response to my questions, but I get your schtick. You are not my judge. Adieu. Edited March 1, 2018 by Bernard Gui 1
FormerLDS Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 16 hours ago, Calm said: Former, what does Christ do to that which is/who are "unfruitful"?? Is a corrupt tree that bears evil fruit "fruitful" or "unfruitful"? Likewise, every tree that does not bear good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire. The rejected of the Savior cast out devils in the name of Jesus Christ. They worked miracles in the name of Jesus Christ. They prophesied in the name of Jesus Christ. They fed the hungry and thirsty, cared for the sick, clothed the naked, loved their neighbors as themselves, and loved Jesus Christ as their savior. What was so evil about their fruit?
pogi Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: Likewise, every tree that does not bear good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire. That is right. Remember the parable of the sower and the plants that were withered and bear no fruit because they believed for a short time then turned away? I am glad to see that you are finally acknowledging that they will not be saved, but will be cut off and burned because they produce no fruit. The Lord is not in them, and they are not in the Lord. 2
Calm Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 (edited) 19 hours ago, FormerLDS said: Similarly, the seed that grows but is choked becomes unfruitful, but is not dead. 25 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: Likewise, every tree that does not bear good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire. If a tree is hewn down and burnt, the seed dies, correct? Edited March 1, 2018 by Calm 2
Anakin7 Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 (edited) More Responses to FormerLDS Problem posts that lack context, structure, Ancient Biblical meanings in Hebrew and Greek - http://www.gospelway.com/salvation/eternal_security.php https://www.gospelway.com/salvation/things-save.php http://www.gospelway.com/salvation/individual_responsibility.php https://www.gospelway.com/salvation/salvation_by_faith.php https://www.gospelway.com/salvation/obedience.php http://www.gospelway.com/salvation/eternal_security.php . The Atonement It is The Central doctrine Washing My Garment/Robe In His Blood In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 LDS Sentinel, Son Of Thunder, Kryptonian, Warrior Edited March 1, 2018 by Anakin7
FormerLDS Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 16 hours ago, pogi said: 18 hours ago, FormerLDS said: "Withered away" is not dead. There were "withered" people at the pool of Bathesda. Were they dead? Certainly not, but they lacked growth and maturity. Similarly, the seed that grows but is choked becomes unfruitful, but is not dead. Once again, those who believe and fall away during temptation are still saved. They've just fallen away from their faith and belief. it is impossible for those who have been born again to be re-born as Hebrews 6:6 tells us. Eternal life is irreversible. Doesn't James 2 say that "faith without works is dead"? Our faith can die because our faith is our works, but our faith (works) cannot save us, and as James 2:1 plainly says it is the "faith of Jesus Christ" that saves and is alive within those who have his Gift of eternal life. No, those who fall away are "severed" from Christ and fall away from grace: Quote Galatians 5:4 ESV You are severed from Christ...you have fallen away from grace. Those who are withered and choked by thorns and thistles will be thrown away and "burned". Those who do not bring forth fruit will be cut off and burned. John 15:6 I see your point, and can certainly understand how LDS theology has influenced the interpretation of these verses. There are those who believe in Jesus Christ plus their own works (obedience to laws and ordinances). Because their faith is even partially in their own works, they have made grace of no effect. "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." Romans 11:6 It is a bit confusing, especially if you have been taught that works are required in addition to faith in the Savior. Think about Romans 4:4 "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt." The next verse contrasts works and belief: "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."
Anakin7 Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 (edited) Faith in Greek - pistis [ Allegiance, Commitment, Confidence, Dedication, Devotion, Faithfulness, Fidelity, Loyalty, Obedience, Trust ] is a gift that is Grace empowered and is a work and needs to be worked 1 Thess 1:3 which is the same for all True Saints/Christians past present ad future. The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine Washing My Garment/Robe In His Blood In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited March 1, 2018 by Anakin7
Anakin7 Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Anakin7 said: More Responses to FormerLDS Problem posts that lack context, structure, Ancient Biblical meanings in Hebrew and Greek - http://www.gospelway.com/salvation/eternal_security.php https://www.gospelway.com/salvation/things-save.php http://www.gospelway.com/salvation/individual_responsibility.php https://www.gospelway.com/salvation/salvation_by_faith.php https://www.gospelway.com/salvation/obedience.php http://www.gospelway.com/salvation/eternal_security.php . The Atonement It is The Central doctrine Washing My Garment/Robe In His Blood In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 LDS Sentinel, Son Of Thunder, Kryptonian, Warrior This non LDS Christian site endorses and supports True LDS Doctrine, Teaching Thought, Practice, Walk, Run, Journey and responds to FormerLDS scripture posts in context. Anakin7 Edited March 1, 2018 by Anakin7 1
Anakin7 Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 (edited) 45 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: I see your point, and can certainly understand how LDS theology has influenced the interpretation of these verses. There are those who believe in Jesus Christ plus their own works (obedience to laws and ordinances). Because their faith is even partially in their own works, they have made grace of no effect. "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." Romans 11:6 It is a bit confusing, especially if you have been taught that works are required in addition to faith in the Savior. Think about Romans 4:4 "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt." The next verse contrasts works and belief: "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." FormerLDS, still traveling that Romans Road I see, not a bad thing if the whole Road is seen ignoring the Barking Dogs that are Barking at the heals of the Those Saints/Christians that are striving to enter of God and His Christ by True Belief, Faith - http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/romans-road.htm Anakin7 LDS Sentinel, Son Of Thunder, Kryptonian, Warrior Edited March 1, 2018 by Anakin7 1
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