kllindley Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Ah, the power of rhetoric. Yesterday’s stalwart and enduring hero is today’s monster after one eloquent blog post and they were always a monster. Breaking News: We have also always been at war with Eastasia. Please help me understand what you mean here. Do you think I view Josh as being a monster?
Jeanne Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 6 minutes ago, The Nehor said: For example you might be involved in human trafficking. Seems unlikely and there is no evidence but we. Don’t. Know. I think we should ponder this possibility regularly just in case. I am going to back up and just refrain from saying anymore...I am going to ponderize for a while about what I have just done.
The Nehor Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 9 minutes ago, kllindley said: Please help me understand what you mean here. Do you think I view Josh as being a monster? No, I mean based on his big announcement you were stalwart heroes in the eyes of others and now with another post they turn on you like wolves. Just impressed and a little saddened by the power of words.
The Nehor Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 10 minutes ago, Jeanne said: I am going to back up and just refrain from saying anymore...I am going to ponderize for a while about what I have just done. I can sell you a Ponderize t-shirt and calendar to help. 2
kllindley Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 Just now, The Nehor said: No, I mean based on his big announcement you were stalwart heroes in the eyes of others and now with another post they turn on you like wolves. Just impressed and a little saddened by the power of words. Oh, gotcha. Yeah, I get that about the power of words. I kinda wish mine were that powerful. 😔 1
ALarson Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sky said: I just want to add that there is such a thing as bisexuality and the Kinsey Scale. For people on the higher end of the Kinsey Scale (5-6), mixed-orientation marriages could indeed be more difficult than for somebody who is a 3-4 on the Kinsey Scale. In other words, some people with SSA are not 100% gay and have some attraction towards the opposite sex. For them, being married to someone of the opposite sex seems to be easier. This is an excellent point (and it got lost in all of the other posts, I think). This is why it's wrong of us to compare relationships and then judge or criticize when they don't work out (or when they do). It's not as simple as being 100% straight or 100% gay and then combining those two in a mixed orientation marriage. There are a lot of variables and a whole range of attractions....some strong and some not as strong, etc. Every marriage (or combination of two people) is unique regarding this...no two exactly the same. Edited January 26, 2018 by ALarson 4
Storm Rider Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Jeanne said: I do too...but we. don't. know. I agree with you. It seems improbable...but so many things do. Jeanne, none of knows for a certainly that you are not a sadistic killer of small babies. We just. don't. know. Therefore, in our ignorance we will refer to you as the sadistic baby killer from this point forward, because we just don't know. Now, does that make any sense at all? Of course, not! Nor does it make any sense to just invent crap about Joseph Smith or any other person and then tell people it is okay because we just don't know that it is not true. Try disproving that negative for anyone, Sadistic Baby Killer. 1
SamuelTheLamanite Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 12 hours ago, The Nehor said: Is the opposite true? If so will you marry me? That is not part of the plan of Salvation. Do you believe that nothing is impossible for God?
The Nehor Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 9 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: That is not part of the plan of Salvation. Do you believe that nothing is impossible for God? I do not know. Can God change the past? Can God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat it? Could God make our marriage part of the Plan of Salvation? Remember Amulek said outright that God cannot save people in their sins. Is that impossible for God to do? I believe that God can do anything that is not intrinsically impossible but I have no idea where that line is or if it even exists. I will let you know when I am a deity myself. 1
ALarson Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 12 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: Do you believe that nothing is impossible for God? Do you?
cinepro Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 16 hours ago, hope_for_things said: It was a myth to him, he can only speak from his experience. Yours may be different, this is how I read his comments. President Oaks has, in the past, made a point about how the General Authorities and the Church must focus on teaching "the rules", and not "the exceptions." Quote The explanation I gave that man is the same explanation I give to you if you feel you are an exception to what I have said. As a General Authority, I have the responsibility to preach general principles. When I do, I don’t try to define all the exceptions. There are exceptions to some rules. https://www.lds.org/ensign/2006/06/dating-versus-hanging-out?lang=eng So I think it is safe to say that the "rule" is that marriages between a heterosexual and homosexual spouse are a terrible idea and should be avoided. We may cling to the idea of there being an "exception", but that seems more like a bit of self-delusion for people trying to make sense of a situation that doesn't fit their pre-formed notions of how every man and woman on the planet should be in a heterosexual, child-bearing marriage. This should be painfully obvious if you think about it. Basically, it is a marriage between two people, one of whom is going into the marriage with no desire for a physical/sexual relationship for the other. I suppose it is conceivable (no pun intended) that a marriage between two people with zero sexual desire might work. But if one partner has the need for that kind of affection, and the other partner is totally unable to sincerely offer it, that is a sandy foundation for a marriage. Even the Church acknowledges (usually through the use of awkward metaphors) the incredible power of the human sex drive. Human history is filled with countless stories of people who thought they were more powerful than this desire, and in the end they found out they were wrong. The Weeds are just another story added to that list. 3
Popular Post cinepro Posted January 26, 2018 Popular Post Posted January 26, 2018 I will also add that the Weeds' blog post is one of the most eloquent, self-aware and honest blog posts I've ever read. Regardless of what someone thinks about their original decision to get married, their decision to go public, or their decision to get divorced, it is indisputable that they are owning all those choices like a boss, and if there were a text book about how to handle such situations, this should be included in that book. 7
SamuelTheLamanite Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 9 minutes ago, ALarson said: Do you? Nothing is impossible for God. A gay man or a lesbian woman can have a happy heterosexual marriage in the gospel. We can't control our feelings, but God gave us a gospel that works for everyone. Right? If gay marriage was acceptable for God he would have let us know by now. Don't you think?
Popular Post MorningStar Posted January 26, 2018 Popular Post Posted January 26, 2018 I've met both of them multiple times and they are very kind people. Praying for the best for them. 6
SamuelTheLamanite Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 13 minutes ago, The Nehor said: I do not know. Can God change the past? Can God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat it? Could God make our marriage part of the Plan of Salvation? Remember Amulek said outright that God cannot save people in their sins. Is that impossible for God to do? I believe that God can do anything that is not intrinsically impossible but I have no idea where that line is or if it even exists. I will let you know when I am a deity myself. So Nehor, for you what should a gay man or a lesbian woman do? Should they simply remain single for the rest of their lives? Or should they marry in the Temple and live the Gospel?
ALarson Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: Nothing is impossible for God. So, God may allow (or even sanction) the marriage of two men who deeply love each other and desire to be together through eternity (or two women). 7 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: If gay marriage was acceptable for God he would have let us know by now. Don't you think? As far as I know and believe, God has been silent regarding SSM. Edited January 26, 2018 by ALarson 2
The Nehor Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 6 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: So Nehor, for you what should a gay man or a lesbian woman do? Should they simply remain single for the rest of their lives? Or should they marry in the Temple and live the Gospel? My response would be celibacy until death. A horrifying idea to most but it is all I have got. I find it hard to blame anyone who would ignore that advice I am glad I do not have to make that call. I would not counsel marriage.
Popular Post bluebell Posted January 26, 2018 Popular Post Posted January 26, 2018 25 minutes ago, cinepro said: President Oaks has, in the past, made a point about how the General Authorities and the Church must focus on teaching "the rules", and not "the exceptions." So I think it is safe to say that the "rule" is that marriages between a heterosexual and homosexual spouse are a terrible idea and should be avoided. We may cling to the idea of there being an "exception", but that seems more like a bit of self-delusion for people trying to make sense of a situation that doesn't fit their pre-formed notions of how every man and woman on the planet should be in a heterosexual, child-bearing marriage. This should be painfully obvious if you think about it. Basically, it is a marriage between two people, one of whom is going into the marriage with no desire for a physical/sexual relationship for the other. I suppose it is conceivable (no pun intended) that a marriage between two people with zero sexual desire might work. But if one partner has the need for that kind of affection, and the other partner is totally unable to sincerely offer it, that is a sandy foundation for a marriage. Even the Church acknowledges (usually through the use of awkward metaphors) the incredible power of the human sex drive. Human history is filled with countless stories of people who thought they were more powerful than this desire, and in the end they found out they were wrong. The Weeds are just another story added to that list. This isn't just an issue for mixed orientation marriages. I know of two marriages where it's been many decades since they had sexual intercourse. From all appearances they are very happy and thriving. I also know of one marriage that is seriously on the rocks because the man wants to have sex all the time and the woman hardly ever does. Sex in marriage is complex issue no matter the orientation. 8
SamuelTheLamanite Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 11 hours ago, ALarson said: So, God may allow (or even sanction) the marriage of two men who deeply love each other and desire to be together through eternity (or two women). If true, then that would only mean that God is allowing his churches to forbid gay marriage. What God would allow bad things without revealing the consequences? No such thing, God doesn't approve of gay marriage. Wait, God is silent on object, animal, virtual marriage, but I don't think God approves them. . You will be removed from the thread if you continue to use inappropriate comparisons. 11 hours ago, ALarson said: As far as I know and believe, God has been silent regarding SSM. No he doesn't, for God celibacy is not a bad thing. Let me ask you, do you believe the mentally ill have the right to get married? If no, why not? and why would God allow it if celibacy is a bad thing? Read the debate here Gotcha!
SamuelTheLamanite Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 20 minutes ago, The Nehor said: My response would be celibacy until death. A horrifying idea to most but it is all I have got. I find it hard to blame anyone who would ignore that advice Yes, we heterosexuals are lucky we don't have to be celibate.
cinepro Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 14 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: For God nothing is impossible. A gay man can have a happy heterosexual marriage when the family is living the gospel. I hope Josh and Lilly can pray, fast, and turn to the scriptures before ending their marriage. It might be time to retire the idea "any two people living the gospel can be happy in marriage." Maybe there are marriages where people are living the gospel yet still totally miserable. Let's chalk it up to fallible leaders. 3
ALarson Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: If true, then that would only mean that God is allowing his churches to forbid gay marriage. What God would allow bad things without revealing the consequences? No such thing, God doesn't approve of gay marriage. Wait, God is silent on object, animal, virtual marriage, but I don't think God approves them. . No he doesn't, for God celibacy is not a bad thing. Let me ask you, do you believe the mentally ill have the right to get married? If no, why not? and why would God allow it if celibacy is a bad thing? Read the debate here Gotcha! Your entire post makes no logical sense. I'll leave it at that other than to say "No, there was not a 'Gotcha' from anything you wrote above". Edited January 26, 2018 by ALarson 2
SamuelTheLamanite Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 (edited) 45 minutes ago, ALarson said: Your entire post makes no logical sense. I'll leave it at that other than to say "No, there was not a 'Gotcha' from anything you wrote above". ALarson, the point is that celibacy isn't bad. Do you believe the mentally ill should have the right to have sex or get married? Read the debate before answering. So if we can agree God wants the mentally ill to be celibate, then why is celibacy not appropriate for gays? When did God approve gay marriage? If God is silent on gay marriage it is because he doesn't approve it, you don't approve something by being silent. 48 minutes ago, cinepro said: It might be time to retire the idea "any two people living the gospel can be happy in marriage." Maybe there are marriages where people are living the gospel yet still totally miserable. Let's chalk it up to fallible leaders. Okay. So the other option is for gays to remain celibate for the rest of their lives. Edited January 26, 2018 by SamuelTheLamanite
carbon dioxide Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 5 hours ago, Jeanne said: I am thinking that the greater power is the love that they have for one another...not the priesthood. In mortality perhaps yes but love by itself does nothing after death.
carbon dioxide Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 3 hours ago, ttribe said: That's a stretch to the extreme from what was said in that blog. Not literally killing people but they give an implication that Church views are causing people to kill themselves. The argument is nonsense. All Churches have views and standards. If a lot of people guilty of adultery were to commit suicide, would the Church be somewhat to blame for these people killing themselves and should the church change its position on adultery so that fewer people who commit adultery would kill themselves? 1
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