Acts 17:28 Question

[Anakin7]

20 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

I go to a Baptist Church but all Christian Churches share the same belief as this Lutheran Catechism 

I was in the past a Methodist Christian, a Baptist [Fundamentalist Independent] Christian, now LDS Christian.

The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine

Washing My Garment In His Blood

In His Eternal Debt/Grace

Anakin7

LDS, Sentinel, Son Of Thunder, Kryptonian 

[Josh Khinder]

2 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Why do you keep doing this?  You just seem to keep it up, without the slightest apparent inkling that what YOU mean by Trinity is NOT what WE mean by Trinity.  

For example:

NOW, DESPITE THEIR OBVIOUS SIMILARITIES, ONE CAT IS NOT LIKE THE OTHER CAT, DESPITE BOTH BEING CATS.

A. Our Trinity is the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, who are three separate personages.  A social trinity.

B. Your Trinity is the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, who are three persons in one substance.  A triune god.

OK, then. Take every quote you have given from LDS leaders and the Book of Mormon, the D&C, and the PofGP wherein it is said "One God," and assign A in the short list above to it.  You can assign B to whatever you believe in.  Now, you can argue legitimately whether the LDS understanding of God is correct, or not, but will you finally STOP TELLING US WHAT WE BELIEVE AND WHAT OUR LEADERS AND SCRIPTURES MEAN WHEN THEY SAY "TRINITY"?  

Have you gotten the point yet?  Or is having any further discussion with you completely pointless?

 

You seem to have both wrong, The Mormon Trinity is 1+1+1 = 3 gods

The Christian trinity is 1X1X1 = 1 GOD 

One Substance means ONE GOD

 

Homoousios -God- Godhead- Substance- Essence- Being –Nature [ all Synonyms ]

 

[MiserereNobis]

5 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

I was speaking about one poster on this board whom you yourself have criticized as well.  How you conclude that I was talking about one of the most brilliant minds ever who was, as we all are, tied inextricably to our time and culture, I have no idea.

I'm sorry, I guess I was being too sensitive. You and I butt theological heads from time to time but I've always loved our interactions and your contributions to this board. I apologize.

And thank you, too, for the rest of your post. It makes sense to me, too.

One of these days I'll make it out to LA and we are going to have that lunch together

 

[Josh Khinder]

1 hour ago, Anakin7 said:

I was in the past a Methodist Christian, a Baptist [Fundamentalist Independent] Christian, now LDS Christian.

The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine

Washing My Garment In His Blood

In His Eternal Debt/Grace

Anakin7

LDS, Sentinel, Son Of Thunder, Kryptonian 

We have as our central doctrines these teachings 

E. Calvin Beisner

God in Three Persons

 The Christian Church throughout history has found in order to remain faithful to the teachings of the New Testament regarding the person and work of Christ, it had to affirm at least the following doctrines:

 The doctrine of the Trinity----that in the nature of the One True God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, each fully God, Coequal and Coeternal

 The doctrine of the incarnation----- that the Son of God, the Word ( John 1:1 ) became man ( John ; Rom. 1:3 ) uniting in the single person of the Son two distinct and complete natures, diety and humanity.

 The sinless of Christ---- that he lived as the perfect man to fulfill God’s plan for all humanity. ( Heb 2:6-18; 4:14, 15 )

 The sacrificial death of Christ---- to atone for sins of all men ( 1 John 2:2; 1 Peter 2:; Matt 20:28; 1 Cor 6:20 )

 The resurrection of Christ---- that after his death, Christ rose bodily from the grave, showing his triumph over sin and death, as the first fruit, and hence the promise, of resurrection to all who have faith in him ( 1 ; Rom 6:3-11 )

 Salvation by Grace through Faith--- that justification before God, and hence salvation from punishment and life with God, are available only as a gift from God through faith in Jesus Christ ( John 14:6; 3:16 Acts 4:10; John 8:24 ) pp 19-20

 When we have said these three things, then—that there is but one God, that the Father and the Son and the Spirit is each a distinct person—we have enunciated the doctrine of the Trinity in its completeness.

 We may condense this into a somewhat shorter statement, one which is more precise: In the nature  of the God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit ( or substance )  of the one true God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit  p 24

 

Homoousios -God- Godhead- Substance- Essence- Being –Nature [ all Synonyms ]

[JLHPROF]

6 minutes ago, Josh Khinder said:

You seem to have both wrong, The Mormon Trinity is 1+1+1 = 3 gods

The Christian trinity is 1X1X1 = 1 GOD 

One Substance means ONE GOD

 

Homoousios -God- Godhead- Substance- Essence- Being –Nature [ all Synonyms ]

 

You can keep saying this all you want.  It still isn't in the Bible.  The idea of shared substance/essence is nowhere in the Bible.  The Bible speaks of their unity, but not of substance.

[mfbukowski]

26 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

I'm sorry, I guess I was being too sensitive. You and I butt theological heads from time to time but I've always loved our interactions and your contributions to this board. I apologize.

And thank you, too, for the rest of your post. It makes sense to me, too.

One of these days I'll make it out to LA and we are going to have that lunch together

 

I would totally love that!

[Josh Khinder]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

You can keep saying this all you want.  It still isn't in the Bible.  The idea of shared substance/essence is nowhere in the Bible.  The Bible speaks of their unity, but not of substance.

look at this chart in bottom part and you see the word ECHOD and you will see the meaning from the Bible concerning substance . In a marriage etc. the husband and wife are separate and distinct persons like the Father, Son and Holy Spirit yet One Substance , one meaning marriage the other God or Godhead .

 

[JLHPROF]

4 minutes ago, Josh Khinder said:

look at this chart in bottom part and you see the word ECHOD and you will see the meaning from the Bible concerning substance . In a marriage etc. the husband and wife are separate and distinct persons like the Father, Son and Holy Spirit yet One Substance , one meaning marriage the other God or Godhead .

 

Exactly.  A husband and wife are the perfect analogy.  United but separate.  No mystical combination of substance.

[Meerkat]

On 1/10/2018 at 1:23 PM, RockHopper said:

Ok, so that's definitely in the ball park for me.  It sounds like Mormons believe they can have a personal/intimate relationship with Christ, that He hears the prayers, knows their thoughts/deeds, etc..  I always think it's funny when people say Mormons don't talk about or worship Jesus.  Just walk into a LDS church building or go to an LDS Christmas service and you'll find that this isn't true.

This has been my experience, and I believe is typical for Mormons who are "true believers" in the LDS religion:

"10 And now I ask of you on what conditions are they saved? Yea, what grounds had they to hope for salvation? What is the cause of their being loosed from the bands of death, yea, and also the chains of hell?
            11 Behold, I can tell you—did not my father Alma believe in the words which were delivered by the mouth of Abinadi? And was he not a holy prophet? Did he not speak the words of God, and my father Alma believe them?
            12 And according to his faith there was a mighty change wrought in his heart. Behold I say unto you that this is all true.
            13 And behold, he preached the word unto your fathers, and a mighty change was also wrought in their hearts, and they humbled themselves and put their trust in the true and living God. And behold, they were faithful until the end; therefore they were saved.
            14 And now behold, I ask of you, my brethren of the church, have ye spiritually been born of God? Have ye received his image in your countenances? Have ye experienced this mighty change in your hearts?
            15 Do ye exercise faith in the redemption of him who created you? Do you look forward with an eye of faith, and view this mortal body raised in immortality, and this corruption raised in incorruption, to stand before God to be judged according to the deeds which have been done in the mortal body?
            16 I say unto you, can you imagine to yourselves that ye hear the voice of the Lord, saying unto you, in that day: Come unto me ye blessed, for behold, your works have been the works of righteousness upon the face of the earth?"

This from Alma 5 in the Book of Mormon, another testament of Jesus Christ.  The Book of Mormon is full of this doctrine.

RockHopper, Mormons believe and preach that good works accompany conversion to Jesus Christ.  There is a change of heart, a joy and gratitude that comes from Jesus forgiving our sins.  It comes from The Holy Ghost testifying of Christ, in my opinion. The more we follow His teachings, the greater our faith and joy.  Preaching the importance of good works in no way implies we can be saved without Grace.  Show me your faith without your works.  I'll show you my faith by my works.  As you said, "By their fruits, ye shall know them."

If the Christ you worship has transformed your heart of stone into a heart of flesh, with no more disposition to do evil, but good continually, I believe we are talking about the same Christ.

There is a lot we don't know.  My faith is pretty basic:  Love God.  Love my fellow beings.  Do good in the world.  I love my brothers and sisters of all faiths and even no faith.  I agree with CS Lewis that people often worship God unaware (By their good works and kindness to their fellow beings.)  I believe eventually the Holy Ghost will lead them to Jesus Christ, our Savior.

And this is one statement the Savior made that I haven't seen much coverage anywhere: "38 ¶ And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
            39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
            40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
            41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward."

Mark 9

May the Lord bless you in your studies.  Your kind voice here is refreshing and appreciated by many of us.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Meerkat

[Meerkat]

8 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

You seem to have both wrong, The Mormon Trinity is 1+1+1 = 3 gods

The Christian trinity is 1X1X1 = 1 GOD 

One Substance means ONE GOD

 

Homoousios -God- Godhead- Substance- Essence- Being –Nature [ all Synonyms ]

 

So much straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel. 

Christianity transforms lives from evil to good.  Repentance brings about a change in behavior.  I will lock arms with any good person regardless of their religion and leave the judging to God.  It would be a cruel and arbitrary god  who would condemn a man for following the teachings of Jesus Christ in their own life and behavior, loving God and his fellow beings.  Doing so would be out of character for the merciful God I worship who has saved me from a life of sin.

There are few scriptures that can be interpreted only one way (Triune versus one in purpose.) Whatever one believes on that point is minor compared to the virtuous fruits of one's life.

Look at the effects of conversion in one's life and praise the Lord for it.  I thank God that I love Him and my fellow beings.  I owe it all to Jesus Christ. 

I'm happy for you Josh, if you have also found that Peace that passes understanding.  I'm not here with an agenda to tear down your faith.  There are many things that Paul wrote that are hard to understand. 

One thing you cannot deny about another person is, whereas I was blind, now I see, because Jesus Christ came into my life and opened my eyes.  That is the fellowship I share with Mormons and other true followers of Jesus Christ, our Savior.

Repeating the Saviors comment from an earlier post:

"38 ¶ And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
            39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
            40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
            41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward."   Mark 9:38-41

That's a scripture that cuts both ways.  The Book of Mormon clarifies the way to judge in Moroni chapter 7:

"15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.
            16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.
            17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.
            18 And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.
            19 Wherefore, I beseech of you, brethren, that ye should search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil; and if ye will lay hold upon every good thing, and condemn it not, ye certainly will be a child of Christ."

Edited January 15, 2018 by Meerkat

[Anakin7]

11 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

 

We have as our central doctrines these teachings 

E. Calvin Besieger

God in Three Persons

 The Christian Church throughout history has found in order to remain faithful to the teachings of the New Testament regarding the person and work of Christ, it had to affirm at least the following doctrines:

 The doctrine of the Trinity----that in the nature of the One True God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, each fully God, Coequal and Coeternal

 The doctrine of the incarnation----- that the Son of God, the Word ( John 1:1 ) became man ( John ; Rom. 1:3 ) uniting in the single person of the Son two distinct and complete natures, diety and humanity.

 The sinless of Christ---- that he lived as the perfect man to fulfill God’s plan for all humanity. ( Heb 2:6-18; 4:14, 15 )

 The sacrificial death of Christ---- to atone for sins of all men ( 1 John 2:2; 1 Peter 2:; Matt 20:28; 1 Cor 6:20 )

 The resurrection of Christ---- that after his death, Christ rose bodily from the grave, showing his triumph over sin and death, as the first fruit, and hence the promise, of resurrection to all who have faith in him ( 1 ; Rom 6:3-11 )

 Salvation by Grace through Faith--- that justification before God, and hence salvation from punishment and life with God, are available only as a gift from God through faith in Jesus Christ ( John 14:6; 3:16 Acts 4:10; John 8:24 ) pp 19-20

 When we have said these three things, then—that there is but one God, that the Father and the Son and the Spirit is each a distinct person—we have enunciated the doctrine of the Trinity in its completeness.

 We may condense this into a somewhat shorter statement, one which is more precise: In the nature  of the God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit ( or substance )  of the one true God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit  p 24

 

Homoousios -God- Godhead- Substance- Essence- Being –Nature [ all Synonyms ]

    Thank you for that, I do not know why you posted that in response to my post but okay. So from reading the above from Calvin Besieger that Father, Son, Holy Ghost have lived, now live, and for all eternity will live inside The "Nature" of  God, Got it. So there are multiple levels/tiers of reality of "God",  #1- God fills the immensity of space past, present, future throughout all the Universe, #2 - inside that 1 God there is a nature that fills the immensity of space past. present, future, # 3 - there are 3 persons within that God and Gods nature that fills the immensity of space past, present/ future. Reads greek neo-platonic, gnostic to me, not the God of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, the God of The Hebrews/Israelites/Saints Christians. From my limited understanding - Substance = The 3 persons of the True Godhead Trinity are the same substance = God nature which I adhere to. So God is a substance/essence/being/nature ?,  Thats not The God I read in Holy writ, but that is just me, [along with millions of others].Once gain thank you for sharing your thoughts/view.

The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine

Washing My Garment/Robe In His Blood

In His Eternal Debt/Grace

Anakin7

LDS Sentinel, Son Of Thunder Kryptonian Warrior

Edited January 15, 2018 by Anakin7

[CV75]

21 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

Sounds like your referring to the preparatory and not fullness

D&C 84:26 And the lesser priesthood continued, which priesthood holdeth the key of the ministering of angels and the preparatory gospel;

27 Which gospel is the gospel of repentance and of baptism, and the remission of sins, and the law of carnal commandments, which the Lord in his wrath caused to continue with the house of Aaron among the children of Israel until John, whom God raised up, being filled with the Holy Ghost from his mother’s womb.

 

No, I’m referring to the fullness (note the third, or often-overlooked item I listed). This entails the blessings and mysteries that the Melchizedek Priesthood administers. D&C 84:26-27 simply doesn’t address it; you have to read those verses that do to get it (e.g. see verses 5-6; 17-21; 35-40). Note these two verses, because they are only about the Aaronic Priesthood, do not address baptism by fire, the spiritual blessings of the Church (see D&C 107) and the keys that were restored in D&C 110 a few years later (that was due to timing of course).

For a fuller treatment of both the Aaronic and Melchizedek Priesthoods, see D&C 107. There you will find a good example of the fulness expressed in D&C 124.

[Josh Khinder]

1 hour ago, CV75 said:

No, I’m referring to the fullness (note the third, or often-overlooked item I listed). This entails the blessings and mysteries that the Melchizedek Priesthood administers. D&C 84:26-27 simply doesn’t address it; you have to read those verses that do to get it (e.g. see verses 5-6; 17-21; 35-40). Note these two verses, because they are only about the Aaronic Priesthood, do not address baptism by fire, the spiritual blessings of the Church (see D&C 107) and the keys that were restored in D&C 110 a few years later (that was due to timing of course).

For a fuller treatment of both the Aaronic and Melchizedek Priesthoods, see D&C 107. There you will find a good example of the fulness expressed in D&C 124.

According to the official Mormon  site the fullness is in The Ensign

Bruce mcConkie trying to explain

Our revelations say that the Book of Mormon contains the fullness of Gospel. { D&C 20:9, 27:5. 42:12, 135:3 } This is true in the sense that Book of Mormon is a record of God's dealings with a people who had the fulness of the gospel and therefore the laws and priciples leading to the highest salvation are found recorded in that book.
The fullness consists in those laws, doctrines, ordnances, powers, and authorities needed to enable men to gain the fullness of salvation. Mormon Doctrine page 333

These teachings and doctrines are in accord with the statement of the Prophet Joseph Smith that the principles of the gospel are “according to the Holy Scriptures, and the Book of Mormon; and the only way that man can enter into the celestial kingdom.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 16.) The fulness of the gospel as contained in the Book of Mormon means that it contains those instructions a person needs to observe in order to be worthy to enter the presence of God in the celestial kingdom.

The Ensign 09/1985

Fulness of the Gospel,, by fullness of the gospel, is meant all the ordinances and principles that pertain to the exaltation in celestial kingdom…Doctrine of Salvation Vol. 1 page 160 Joseph Fielding Smith.

Sept 1976 Ensign I have a Question

Since there really isn't any real Mormonism in The Book of Mormon you see a confusion of what the Fullness is .

[JLHPROF]

36 minutes ago, Josh Khinder said:

According to the official Mormon  site the fullness is in The Ensign

Bruce mcConkie trying to explain

Our revelations say that the Book of Mormon contains the fullness of Gospel. { D&C 20:9, 27:5. 42:12, 135:3 } This is true in the sense that Book of Mormon is a record of God's dealings with a people who had the fulness of the gospel and therefore the laws and priciples leading to the highest salvation are found recorded in that book.
The fullness consists in those laws, doctrines, ordnances, powers, and authorities needed to enable men to gain the fullness of salvation. Mormon Doctrine page 333

These teachings and doctrines are in accord with the statement of the Prophet Joseph Smith that the principles of the gospel are “according to the Holy Scriptures, and the Book of Mormon; and the only way that man can enter into the celestial kingdom.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 16.) The fulness of the gospel as contained in the Book of Mormon means that it contains those instructions a person needs to observe in order to be worthy to enter the presence of God in the celestial kingdom.

The Ensign 09/1985

Fulness of the Gospel,, by fullness of the gospel, is meant all the ordinances and principles that pertain to the exaltation in celestial kingdom…Doctrine of Salvation Vol. 1 page 160 Joseph Fielding Smith.

Sept 1976 Ensign I have a Question

Since there really isn't any real Mormonism in The Book of Mormon you see a confusion of what the Fullness is .

That entire post makes zero sense.
Try harder Mittens.

The path to salvation in the Celestial Kingdom is contained in the Book of Mormon.  There are some elements pertaining to exaltation that are not addressed specifically, but the fulness of the gospel (ie, the plan of salvation) is in there.

[Stargazer]

19 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

You seem to have both wrong, The Mormon Trinity is 1+1+1 = 3 gods

The Christian trinity is 1X1X1 = 1 GOD 

One Substance means ONE GOD

 

-Homoousios -God- Godhead- Substance- Essence- Being –Nature [ all Synonyms ]

 

You still haven't got it straight. Your understanding of the mathematics of Godhead appears faulty.

The LDS Trinity is 1 + 1 + 1 = 1 God.  Three persons united as one in purpose, righteousness, and glory. Not 3 gods.

"One substance" is a nonbiblical fiction invented at Nicea.

[Bobbieaware]

1 hour ago, Josh Khinder said:

According to the official Mormon  site the fullness is in The Ensign

Bruce mcConkie trying to explain

Our revelations say that the Book of Mormon contains the fullness of Gospel. { D&C 20:9, 27:5. 42:12, 135:3 } This is true in the sense that Book of Mormon is a record of God's dealings with a people who had the fulness of the gospel and therefore the laws and priciples leading to the highest salvation are found recorded in that book.
The fullness consists in those laws, doctrines, ordnances, powers, and authorities needed to enable men to gain the fullness of salvation. Mormon Doctrine page 333

These teachings and doctrines are in accord with the statement of the Prophet Joseph Smith that the principles of the gospel are “according to the Holy Scriptures, and the Book of Mormon; and the only way that man can enter into the celestial kingdom.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 16.) The fulness of the gospel as contained in the Book of Mormon means that it contains those instructions a person needs to observe in order to be worthy to enter the presence of God in the celestial kingdom.

The Ensign 09/1985

Fulness of the Gospel,, by fullness of the gospel, is meant all the ordinances and principles that pertain to the exaltation in celestial kingdom…Doctrine of Salvation Vol. 1 page 160 Joseph Fielding Smith.

Sept 1976 Ensign I have a Question

Since there really isn't any real Mormonism in The Book of Mormon you see a confusion of what the Fullness is .

As you already know, the prophet Mormon plainly testifies that when the Book of Mormon would come forth in the latter-days it would contain only the lesser teachings of Jesus Christ, and that the greater teachings of Christ would not be revealed until AFTER the publication of the Book of Mormon. The expression “fulness of the gospel” therefore CANNOT MEAN that the Book of Mormon is a compilation of all the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Your assumption that the expression “fullness of the gospel” refers to every doctrine and principle of the religion of Christ flies in the face of Mormon’s plain declaration that the Book of Mormon contains only Christ’s lesser teachings.

I have two questions for you:

1) How can the expression “fullness of the gospel” refer to every doctrine and principle of the religion of Jesus Christ when Mormon says the Book of Mormon contains only the lesser teachings of Christ?

2) How can the expression “fullness of the Gospel” mean every doctrine and principle of the religion of Jesus Christ when Mormon says the greater teachings of Christ would not be revealed in the latter-days until AFTER the coming forth of the Book of Mormon?

Please be a gentleman and answer these two questions specifically and with sufficient detail, without resorting to deflection.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Bobbieaware

[Josh Khinder]

4 hours ago, Stargazer said:

You still haven't got it straight. Your understanding of the mathematics of Godhead appears faulty.

The LDS Trinity is 1 + 1 + 1 = 1 God.  Three persons united as one in purpose, righteousness, and glory. Not 3 gods.

"One substance" is a nonbiblical fiction invented at Nicea.

Joseph Smith said the Trinity is three gods.
"I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods," (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370)

 

The Godhead consists of the three distinct personages and three gods.. The Father Son and Holy Spirit. The Father and Son have bodies of flesh and bones, while the Holy Spirit is a personage of spirit. Robert Millet A Different Jesus page 198

 

The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).

Bruce McConkie states: "There are three Gods...separate in personality, united in purpose, in plan, and in all attributes of perfection" (Mormon Doctrine, p.270).

[Josh Khinder]

4 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

That entire post makes zero sense.
Try harder Mittens.

The path to salvation in the Celestial Kingdom is contained in the Book of Mormon.  There are some elements pertaining to exaltation that are not addressed specifically, but the fulness of the gospel (ie, the plan of salvation) is in there.

Not even close, doesn't even teach we are literal children of God the Father and Jesus was the firstborn and our brother, which is the first part of the plan of salvation 

Edited January 16, 2018 by Josh Khinder

[Anakin7]

8 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

Joseph Smith said the Trinity is three gods.
"I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods," (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370)

 

The Godhead consists of the three distinct personages and three gods.. The Father Son and Holy Spirit. The Father and Son have bodies of flesh and bones, while the Holy Spirit is a personage of spirit. Robert Millet A Different Jesus page 198

 

The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).

Bruce McConkie states: "There are three Gods...separate in personality, united in purpose, in plan, and in all attributes of perfection" (Mormon Doctrine, p.270).

    An Ancient, Monarch Eastern, Economic, Social, Godhead Trinity. One God/Godhead In Authority, Love, Covenant, Power. In one sense 1 God in another sense 3 Gods. 

The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine

Washing My Garment In His Blood

In His Eternal Debt/Grace

Anakin7

LDS Sentinel, Son Of Thunder Kryptonian, Warrior. 

[CV75]

14 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

According to the official Mormon  site the fullness is in The Ensign

Bruce mcConkie trying to explain

Our revelations say that the Book of Mormon contains the fullness of Gospel. { D&C 20:9, 27:5. 42:12, 135:3 } This is true in the sense that Book of Mormon is a record of God's dealings with a people who had the fulness of the gospel and therefore the laws and priciples leading to the highest salvation are found recorded in that book.
The fullness consists in those laws, doctrines, ordnances, powers, and authorities needed to enable men to gain the fullness of salvation. Mormon Doctrine page 333

These teachings and doctrines are in accord with the statement of the Prophet Joseph Smith that the principles of the gospel are “according to the Holy Scriptures, and the Book of Mormon; and the only way that man can enter into the celestial kingdom.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 16.) The fulness of the gospel as contained in the Book of Mormon means that it contains those instructions a person needs to observe in order to be worthy to enter the presence of God in the celestial kingdom.

The Ensign 09/1985

Fulness of the Gospel,, by fullness of the gospel, is meant all the ordinances and principles that pertain to the exaltation in celestial kingdom…Doctrine of Salvation Vol. 1 page 160 Joseph Fielding Smith.

Sept 1976 Ensign I have a Question

Since there really isn't any real Mormonism in The Book of Mormon you see a confusion of what the Fullness is .

I don't understand the point you are trying to make. I was not talking about a preparatory gospel, and neither are these quotes. Rather, in both mine and these quotes, "those instructions a person needs to observe in order to be worthy to enter the presence of God in the celestial kingdom" are revealed through the Lord's servants, a key and oft-overlooked component of the fulness of the Gospel as I explained a couple of posts ago.

[snowflake]

On 1/11/2018 at 7:40 PM, Bobbieaware said:

As usual, when it comes to things LDS, you don’t know what you’re talking about. The Book of Mormon tells us much about the nature of the fallen state that belies your claim. 

The BOM agrees with the bible on many doctrinal topics, this being one of them. That being said, there are many doctrines in the BOM that the current Salt Lake LDS sect don't recognize or practice, being born "fallen" would be one of them.

Article of faith #2 would deny what the BOM and Bible teach about being under the curse of Adam.

AOF #2: We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.

[Meerkat]

On 1/14/2018 at 8:54 PM, Josh Khinder said:

We may condense this into a somewhat shorter statement, one which is more precise: In the nature  of the God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit ( or substance )  of the one true God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit  p 24

I can see from your writing Josh, you are a man with great faith in Christ.  Many people's lives have been transformed through faith in Jesus Christ and His blood shed for them.  I believe many obtained that faith with no understanding of the Triune God as you and the various creeds describe it. Some may not even read.  But they confess Christ because they have experienced the mighty change of heart.  What level of importance do you believe semantics plays in the plan of Salvation?   Is "Triune God" the important thing?  Or is a transformed life the important thing?  My view is that there are many confusing doctrines in the scriptures, such as Trune God versus one in purpose, Sabbath and baptisms.   Faith in Jesus Christ which results in repentance and a transformed life trumps them all, in my opinion.  There is much that is hard to understand in this life that will be resolved over yonder.  Would you agree? 

Edited January 16, 2018 by Meerkat

[pogi]

On 1/14/2018 at 11:07 PM, Josh Khinder said:

look at this chart in bottom part and you see the word ECHOD and you will see the meaning from the Bible concerning substance . In a marriage etc. the husband and wife are separate and distinct persons like the Father, Son and Holy Spirit yet One Substance , one meaning marriage the other God or Godhead .

 

Cool, thanks for teaching me about the word "ECHOD"!

The oneness (echod) of flesh (husband and wife) is perfectly analogous to the oneness (echod) of God (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost).  Very helpful...thanks again!

[mfbukowski]

35 minutes ago, pogi said:

Cool, thanks for teaching me about the word "ECHOD"!

The oneness (echod) of flesh (husband and wife) is perfectly analogous to the oneness (echod) of God (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost).  Very helpful...thanks again!

And thereby the Council of Gods also and the embryos. 

John 17

Quote

 

8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

 

 

[Bobbieaware]

1 hour ago, snowflake said:

The BOM agrees with the bible on many doctrinal topics, this being one of them. That being said, there are many doctrines in the BOM that the current Salt Lake LDS sect don't recognize or practice, being born "fallen" would be one of them.

Article of faith #2 would deny what the BOM and Bible teach about being under the curse of Adam.

AOF #2: We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.

If the Book of Mormon doesn’t teach that men will be punished for their own sins and not for the transgression of Adam, why do we find the following most emphatically stated verses on its pages?  (In your response, please focus specifically on the verses of scripture I’m about to quote and explain to me how Mormon’s words don’t teach that men will be punished for their own sins and not for Adam’s transgression?)

5 For, if I have learned the truth, there have been disputations among you concerning the baptism of your little children.

6 And now, my son, I desire that ye should labor diligently, that this gross error should be removed from among you; for, for this intent I have written this epistle.

7 For immediately after I had learned these things of you I inquired of the Lord concerning the matter. And the word of the Lord came to me by the power of the Holy Ghost, saying:

8 Listen to the words of Christ, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God. Behold, I came into the world not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance; the whole need no physician, but they that are sick; wherefore, little childrenare whole, for they are not capable of committing sin; wherefore the curse of Adam is taken from them in me, that it hath no power over them; and the law of circumcision is done away in me.

9 And after this manner did the Holy Ghost manifest the word of God unto me; wherefore, my beloved son, I know that it is solemn mockery before God, that ye should baptize little children.

10 Behold I say unto you that this thing shall ye teach—repentance and baptism unto those who are accountable and capable of committing sin; yea, teach parents that they must repent and be baptized, and humble themselves as their little children, and they shall all be saved with their little children.

11 And their little children need no repentance, neither baptism. Behold, baptism is unto repentance to the fulfilling the commandments unto the remission of sins.

12 But little children are alive in Christ, even from the foundation of the world; if not so, God is a partial God, and also a changeable God, and a respecter to persons; for how many little children have died without baptism! (Moroni 8:5-12)

Edited January 16, 2018 by Bobbieaware