ex mormon Honest discussion about disdain

[Foreigner]

On 11/5/2017 at 2:00 PM, JLHPROF said:

As you know full well that name was bestowed by enemies of the Church and is not the name we've "taken."

Seems that you do not bother to think a bit. I have answered already above. No matter how the name originated. This is the name of a man. Now read the BoM quotes as above and consider a moment. What does matter is that the name was accepted and Mormons are proud to be Mormons despite what Scriptures say. All Scriptures advise the name - Christians. No matter that enemies of the original church used this name. What does matter is the name of the Christ.

Think also about your statement. Do you really agree to behave according to what your enemies bestow on you?

You will need to improve your attitude if you want to remain on this board.

[The Nehor]

30 minutes ago, Foreigner said:

Boy, I am probably much older than you. The official name does not matter much here. The real life does matter. Members of the Church are proud to be Mormons as well as proud of their own religion named after a man. Here is the clue. You probably do not care about the BoM verses quoted above, so we do not have much common to discuss.

So the official name does not matter but real life does? And in real life the official name and the names on all the signs and paperwork do not say “Mormon” on them.

[The Nehor]

8 minutes ago, Foreigner said:

Seems that you do not bother to think a bit. I have answered already above. No matter how the name originated. This is the name of a man. Now read the BoM quotes as above and consider a moment. What does matter is that the name was accepted and Mormons are proud to be Mormons despite what Scriptures say. All Scriptures advise the name - Christians. No matter that enemies of the original church used this name. What does matter is the name of the Christ.

Think also about your statement. Do you really agree to behave according to what your enemies bestow on you?

For all the time before Christ no one called the followers of Yahweh Christians. There is no evidence that during the life of Christ people were called Christians. The name popped up later. So, by your standard, there were no real followers of Christ. Your God sounds stupidly obsessed with noises.

As to the Scriptures I am Christ which is better then being Christian. I took his name by baptism. I am more Christ then I am Mormon so your puerile argument falls apart.

Might want to look for talking points on a more intelligent Anti-Mormon website in the future. Good luck!

[Brother Bear]

1 hour ago, Foreigner said:

Seems that you do not bother to think a bit. I have answered already above. No matter how the name originated. This is the name of a man. Now read the BoM quotes as above and consider a moment. What does matter is that the name was accepted and Mormons are proud to be Mormons despite what Scriptures say. All Scriptures advise the name - Christians. No matter that enemies of the original church used this name. What does matter is the name of the Christ.

Think also about your statement. Do you really agree to behave according to what your enemies bestow on you?

This is why I always make it a point to tell people that I’m a “Mormon Christian” ... which, translated means “more good” Christian, or, in contemporary vernacular, “better” Christian. I feel it’s important that when I’m telling people that I’m a Christian, especially other Christians, that they also know that I am better than them...

Edited November 6, 2017 by Brother Bear

[The Nehor]

When people ask me if I am Mormon my usual response is: “More a man then you will ever be.”

On an unrelated note people try to punch me a lot for no discernible reason.

[Maestrophil]

21 hours ago, rockpond said:

Is this treatment of church members justified?  Absolutely not.

What drives it?  Anger

Should member even try and engage?  No. 

Well that was easy.  :-)

[Meerkat]

On 11/6/2017 at 1:09 PM, Foreigner said:

Seems that you do not bother to think a bit. I have answered already above. No matter how the name originated. This is the name of a man. Now read the BoM quotes as above and consider a moment. What does matter is that the name was accepted and Mormons are proud to be Mormons despite what Scriptures say. All Scriptures advise the name - Christians. No matter that enemies of the original church used this name. What does matter is the name of the Christ.

Think also about your statement. Do you really agree to behave according to what your enemies bestow on you?

I think the way we treat each other is a better indication of what we are than the name we want to be called. 

Jesus said "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."

I believe acting like a Mormon is a fair representation of what it means to be a Christian.  I would say the same thing about many Baptists, Adventists, Catholics, Lutherans and others I know who haven't told me their religious affiliation.  You show me your faith without your behavior, and I will show you my faith by my behavior.  I think thats what Jesus was talking about.   

Edited November 8, 2017 by Meerkat

[Avatar4321]

On 11/6/2017 at 3:09 PM, Foreigner said:

Seems that you do not bother to think a bit. I have answered already above. No matter how the name originated. This is the name of a man. Now read the BoM quotes as above and consider a moment. What does matter is that the name was accepted and Mormons are proud to be Mormons despite what Scriptures say. All Scriptures advise the name - Christians. No matter that enemies of the original church used this name. What does matter is the name of the Christ.

Think also about your statement. Do you really agree to behave according to what your enemies bestow on you?

The only name we take upon ourselves is that of Christ, when we are baptized. What others call us is irrelevant

[Avatar4321]

On 11/5/2017 at 12:04 PM, Foreigner said:

Mormons as well as Catholics have their own history of apostasy. In BoM, Alma 46, there is one and only name to be taken on: “Christian”. It is repeated three times, so that is very important. The same is strongly emphasized in 3 Nephi 27 with admonition  - not to take “the name of a man”.  And yet the Mormons willfully have taken the name of a man, even making a new religion in the name. This is the sign of apostasy. Not alone.

 

Without their apostasy, Mormonism as well as Catholicism could be one -  Christianism. I think the time is near.

 

Am I the only one who thinks this makes no sense?

[Avatar4321]

On 11/6/2017 at 12:09 PM, Maestrophil said:

Honestly?  Why is this such a hardship for people?  I am trying to understand.  On a FB discussion recently, an old High school friend was complaining that the missionaries looked her up and had her name, even though she has been gone from church life for decades.  She lamented, threatened legal action against the church, and resentment that her family might be behind the visits.  Then my own brother chimed in and said he sometimes gets visits too, and hoped it was not ME sending the elders.  I responded that 1. why would i send poor elders to someone who doesn't want to see them, and 2. If someone's big life problem is a once a year visit from he mormons, then their life is pretty cushy!!

Honestly, if once a year I got a visit from any other religious group, I might get mildly annoyed, but not distressed to the point of legal action and anger - I probably would be nice, have a little talk and bid them good day.  I definitely would not use the visits as an excuse to be angry at every member of that organization.  

I think they have a weird definition of bugging people.

I remember my time as a missionary well "would you like to hear a message from the Lord Jesus Christ? No? Have a nice day."

That's bugging someone? Really?

[Avatar4321]

On 11/6/2017 at 2:46 PM, Foreigner said:

Boy, I am probably much older than you. The official name does not matter much here. The real life does matter. Members of the Church are proud to be Mormons as well as proud of their own religion named after a man. Here is the clue. You probably do not care about the BoM verses quoted above, so we do not have much common to discuss.

How on earth does the name we actuallg take not matter but the one others give us does? That literally makes no sense.

 

[Calm]

On 2017-11-06 at 1:46 PM, Foreigner said:

Boy, I am probably much older than you. The official name does not matter much here. The real life does matter. Members of the Church are proud to be Mormons as well as proud of their own religion named after a man. Here is the clue. You probably do not care about the BoM verses quoted above, so we do not have much common to discuss.

You probably should avoiding insisting you know better than the people themselves how they feel and why they have been willing to use the name "Mormon" informally.

Discussion won't occur not because we don't have much in common, but because attempts at mindreading are doomed to failure.

[Teancum]

On 11/2/2017 at 6:47 PM, Maestrophil said:

So I made the mistake of commenting on the new Mormon Stories interview with Mike Norton.  It struck me in listening to his comments, as well as reading viewer comments how condescending to believers Mikes' entire approach is.  And Mike is at least 'pretending' to be civil - the commenters, not so much.  The last guy that commented, after I kind of asked why Mike was being so condescending to members said:

"Phillip Linford if you’re a part of an institution responsible for the suicides of young people, the divorce of otherwise happy couples, blatant dishonestly regarding their own history and many, many other distrusting things, I think your intelligence should be insulted. Do you know what the world thinks of Mormonism? It’s. It what you think. People think mormons are small brained fools."

I responded saying "at least you are honest about your arrogance" - probably not the most high minded reply on my part... His answer:

"Phillip arrogance, huh? What I’m saying is verifiable. I have science, facts and reality on my side. You have your feelings."

I would love to have really frank discussion about this here.  What are your views about this kind of treatment of church members.  Are they justified?  If so, how?  I am especially interested in hearing from those here who feel negatively towards the church, or who may even agree that members deserve scorn for association with the Church...  Or have felt that way in the past.

What drives this?  Is there a way to counter this?  Should members even try and engage with people like this?  What should be said?

I am open to all thoughts.  

MP

While I may think the evidence is stacked against Mormonism (or any religions being God's one true church with authority of God etc) I found Mike Norton an unstable person in those interviews.  Dehlin really struggled to keep him on track. He seems to have major attention deficit issues.  I think a lot of what he claimed is specious and I think he lied a lot.  If not the man has major issues and has committed a number of crimes.  He is a hypocrite as well because he accuse Joseph Smith of being a con man yet Norton has, if his stories are true, been a con man as well.

I have interacted with Mike Norton online as well. He just seems like a very unstable man.

[Maestrophil]

On 11/11/2017 at 1:25 PM, Teancum said:

While I may think the evidence is stacked against Mormonism (or any religions being God's one true church with authority of God etc) I found Mike Norton an unstable person in those interviews.  Dehlin really struggled to keep him on track. He seems to have major attention deficit issues.  I think a lot of what he claimed is specious and I think he lied a lot.  If not the man has major issues and has committed a number of crimes.  He is a hypocrite as well because he accuse Joseph Smith of being a con man yet Norton has, if his stories are true, been a con man as well.

I have interacted with Mike Norton online as well. He just seems like a very unstable man.

My feelings as well.  And it seems odd to me how many people are quick to jump on his bandwagon...  

[clarkgoble]

23 hours ago, Maestrophil said:

My feelings as well.  And it seems odd to me how many people are quick to jump on his bandwagon...  

As we see too often in politics, people tend to judge by their projections of what they want to be the case rather than investigating what is the case. It's much easier to believe people are what they say they are rather than have to investigate and inquire. That's not really about one side either. It's true of many people of all religions, political ideology or so forth. 

[Tacenda]

http://whyileft.herokuapp.com/   Here is a map of ex Mormons and their reasons for leaving. It isn't that they left to go sin. 

[thesometimesaint]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

http://whyileft.herokuapp.com/   Here is a map of ex Mormons and their reasons for leaving. It isn't that they left to go sin. 

 

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

 

That and $5 you buy a cup of Starbucks coffee.

[Calm]

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

http://whyileft.herokuapp.com/   Here is a map of ex Mormons and their reasons for leaving. It isn't that they left to go sin. 

Not really something anyone should take seriously given there is no verification prior to acceptance.

The same person could have put up hundreds, thousands of pins.

As evidence I offer the one at the top with a bit of censorship to make it g rating:

"I'm tired of living under this ****** ice cap. John the Revelator said the second coming would be any day now, but he's been saying that for 2,000 years."

The one in Greenland says "They are  not nice", one of the Alaskan:  "I was reincarnated as a Kodiak Bear, also I actually read the BOM and Bible. No coming back from that"

Edited November 16, 2017 by Calm

[Calm]

 More:

"I'm one of the Three Nephites but tbh I've always been an introvert and I needed a change of scenery"