Is There Really More Than One Way to Mormon?

[Avatar4321]

39 minutes ago, smac97 said:

A few thoughts:

1. Calm's assessment is and well-stated.  Excommunications, as a whole, are very rare.  The Church really does use them as a "last resort" sort of thing.

2. Grant Palmer, even given all he had done, was disfellowshipped, not excommunicated.

3. John Dehlin was not excommunicated for his various published-to-the-world views on "social" issues like same-sex marriage and ordination of women (even though these views were inconsistent with the teachings of the Church).  Instead, he was excommunicated based on the following:

4. I have been involved in several dozen excommunications over the past decade or so (at the stake and ward levels).  I have first-hand experience with the general guidelines of the Church regarding excommunication, and also with the sentiments of the leaders in our stake who are charged with administering discipline.  Excommunication is, without a doubt, seen as a last resort type of thing, to be avoided if at all possible.  And, to date, it has been avoided.  In every instance where discipline has been meted out, it has been difellowshipment or less.  Not a single excommunication.

5. Formal discipline in the Church about doctrinal disputes seems to be very rare.  So not only is excommunication very rare, excommunication for "apostasy" is even more so.

6. Regarding apostasy, it appears that some folks really take umbrage at the notion of the Church administering discipline for such things.  I have three thoughts about that:

A. Discipline as to "apostasy" is constrained by a number of factors.  Mere "belief" in something which is contrary to the teachings of the Church is not sufficient.  From the CHI-1 (sec. 6.7.3):

B. The Church is not allowed to ignore apostasy.  It actually has a divine mandate to affirmatively address such things:

C. If you are interested in an illustration as to why following the Lord's mandate on this issue is important, I submit Exhibit A:

Here's the actual quote from the FB post noted above:

So . . . yeah.  Dealing with apostasy is important.  Otherwise, you get stuff like this.

Thanks,

-Smac

wow. I'm glad we aren't dealing with preachers like that in our church

[Hamba Tuhan]

5 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

wow. I'm glad we aren't dealing with preachers like that in our church

And yet we so easily could be... Add me to the list of the glad!

[JLHPROF]

2 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

wow. I'm glad we aren't dealing with preachers like that in our church

Interestingly I was just reading about Amasa M. Layman's excommunication and removal from the quorum for a similar perspective.

[Calm]

5 hours ago, smac97 said:

4. I have been involved in several dozen excommunications over the past decade or so (at the stake and ward levels)....Excommunication is, without a doubt, seen as a last resort type of thing, to be avoided if at all possible.  And, to date, it has been avoided.  In every instance where discipline has been meted out, it has been difellowshipment or less.  Not a single excommunication.

Taken in context, I believe "several dozen excommunications" would be better writtten as "several dozen church courts dealing with the possibility of excommunication" or just "several dozen potential excommunications" if I understand you correctly).  As is, it is a bit confusing.

[ksfisher]

13 minutes ago, Calm said:

Taken in context, I believe "several dozen excommunications" would be better writtten as "several dozen church courts dealing with the possibility of excommunication" or just "several dozen potential excommunications" if I understand you correctly).  As is, it is a bit confusing.

My experience has been that church members who are repentant are better served by being disfellowshipped or being placed on formal probation.  It is members who have sinned and have no current intention of changing that have been excommunicated.  All have been sins involving the law of chastity.

[smac97]

28 minutes ago, Calm said:

Taken in context, I believe "several dozen excommunications" would be better writtten as "several dozen church courts dealing with the possibility of excommunication" or just "several dozen potential excommunications" if I understand you correctly).  As is, it is a bit confusing.

I meant to say disciplinary council there. Thanks for the heads up. I have corrected it.

[Tacenda]

The Strongs in the podcast below were unusually "strong" members in the church. Sometimes I think Mormons like them could get themselves in trouble for knowing too much.  Kirk Strong taught the BoM at BYU for years and both know the BoM frontwards and backwards and started noticing things about it's verses that struck them intensely after reading the works of Denver Snuffer. So much so that they transitioned away from Mormonism, although they mention in the podcast that they feel the foundation of Mormonism was crucial. They believe we are the gentiles the BoM is speaking to and they believe the current church is in apostasy. Anyone that is TBM to the bone care to listen and give me feedback? I know I should start a topic but cannot because I'm on Limited status. 

Listening to this couple on MS podcast w/JD. http://www.mormonstories.org/strongs/    

"Beginning a new series on the Doctrine of Christ (Snuffer) Movement, we interview Karen and Kirk Strong about their faith journey. Both were excommunicated from the LDS Church for their beliefs and participation in the movement.

One of the hallmark teachings of this movement is that “The Fullness of the Gospel is literally entering into the presence of Jesus Christ while in the flesh; personal redemption from the Fall is attained in no other way.”  Prophets play an important role in the movement by plainly and boldly declaring this gospel to all.  With no paid clergy, believers gather together in small groups or fellowships.  Equality is an important principle to believers, as shown by the unique responsibilities given to women that are not available to those in the mainstream Mormon Church.

This is Karen and Kirk’s experience leaving the mainstream LDS Church and joining the movement in their search to receive the Living Savior."

https://www.zionsreturn.org

http://denversnuffer.com

[Damien the Leper]

Not to be narcissistic, but I suppose I am one way to Mormon. I'm not a member and I do not believe in a traditional sense. However, my communing with a community of saints each Sunday (not to be understood as partaking of the Sacrament) and providing help, love and encouragement is my way to Mormon.