Virgin Mary statue

[SamuelTheLamanite]

So fire destroyed everything during Harvey, only a Virgin Mary statue survived

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/28/us/harvey-fire-statue-trnd/index.html

Very similar to what happened 6 and 9 months ago 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/01/us/tennessee-wildfires-statute-trnd/index.html

https://www.facebook.com/dioceseoftyler/videos/vb.621493557965268/1334122826702334/?type=2&theater

 Are they miracles from God or Satan? The scriptures teach Satan has power, he even has power to create serpents (2 Thessalonians 2:9, Exodus 7:8–10), but LDS leaders teach that miracles from God happen in other  religions too. I honestly don't know what to believe. Can't be just a coincidence because it is happening too many times. Seems to precise to an accident.  

Edited August 28, 2017 by SamuelTheLamanite

[hagoth7]

Statues of stone are rarely destroyed by fire.

 

That said, I have profound respect for peoples from various faith traditions.

[SamuelTheLamanite]

14 minutes ago, hagoth7 said:

Statues of stone are rarely destroyed by fire.

everything was destroyed, nothing else survived. 

Not only with fires, here only the statue survived an Earthquake 

https://www.facebook.com/dioceseoftyler/videos/vb.621493557965268/1334122826702334/?type=2&theater

Here is another one 

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/22/world/americas/virgin-mary-statue-intact-among-ecuadors-quake-ruins-becomes-a-beacon-of-hope.html

Edited August 28, 2017 by SamuelTheLamanite

[hagoth7]

8 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

everything was destroyed, nothing else survived.

It's wonderful that people find significance in such things

 Not only with fires, here only the statue survived an Earthquake 

....Here is another one ....

I believe in miracles of almost all sorts.

For example, I talked to a nurse not long ago who outright laughed at the idea that God can and does heal illnesses. So I politely ended the discussion.

Yet I don't see divine significance in a statue of stone or kiln-fired clay/porcelain surviving a natural disaster. Although I do respect others' right to conclude otherwise.

[The Nehor]

If you want the cynical take they could have put it there after the fire. There are lots of other possibilities beyond God saved it via miracle or the devil saved it by miracle.

[Hamba Tuhan]

52 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

I honestly don't know what to believe.

Mormon's advice to Moroni:

Quote

13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.

14 Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.

15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.

16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.

 

23 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/22/world/americas/virgin-mary-statue-intact-among-ecuadors-quake-ruins-becomes-a-beacon-of-hope.html

I suspect God knows that people need 'beacons of hope', and he certainly knows how to speak to us in the idioms we recognise.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Hamba Tuhan

[SamuelTheLamanite]

25 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

If you want the cynical take they could have put it there after the fire. There are lots of other possibilities beyond God saved it via miracle or the devil saved it by miracle.

 So how can we know when it is a miracle? Is it a miracle when it doesn't have a natural explanation?  The Dawkins skeptics have an explanation for everything.  

27 minutes ago, hagoth7 said:

It's wonderful that people find significance in such things

I believe in miracles of almost all sorts.

For example, I talked to a nurse not long ago who outright laughed at the idea that God can and does heal illnesses. So I politely ended the discussion.

Yet I don't see divine significance in a statue of stone or kiln-fired clay/porcelain surviving a natural disaster. Although I do respect others' right to conclude otherwise.

Dawkins skeptics don't see significance in prayer and faith healing, just because someone doesn't see divine significance doesn't mean it is not. I am glad you believe in miracles of almost all sorts.  

Edited August 28, 2017 by SamuelTheLamanite

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 minute ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

 So how can we know when it is a miracle?

The only time I ever really know is when I experience it directly. Everything else is a nice story that invites me to believe.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

So fire destroyed everything during Harvey, only a Virgin Mary statue survived

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/28/us/harvey-fire-statue-trnd/index.html

Very similar to what happened 6 and 9 months ago 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/01/us/tennessee-wildfires-statute-trnd/index.html

https://www.facebook.com/dioceseoftyler/videos/vb.621493557965268/1334122826702334/?type=2&theater

 Are they miracles from God or Satan? The scriptures teach Satan has power, he even has power to create serpents (2 Thessalonians 2:9, Exodus 7:8–10), but LDS leaders teach that miracles from God happen in other  religions too. I honestly don't know what to believe. Can't be just a coincidence because it is happening too many times. Seems to precise to an accident.  

Miracles are for all believers, like salvation it is a "free gift". God loves all his children equally. 

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, hagoth7 said:

Statues of stone are rarely destroyed by fire.

 

That said, I have profound respect for peoples from various faith traditions.

I think there is possibly one truth, but not one religion. This gives me hope of a Saviour!!

ETA: What does it say for the many times the Angel Moroni has been struck by lightening? Currently the Bountiful Temple is in reconstruction. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865654861/When-lightning-strikes-an-Angel-Moroni-statue-does-what-hes-built-to-do.html

Edited August 29, 2017 by Tacenda

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

 So how can we know when it is a miracle? Is it a miracle when it doesn't have a natural explanation?  The Dawkins skeptics have an explanation for everything.  

Dawkins skeptics don't see significance in prayer and faith healing, just because someone doesn't see divine significance doesn't mean it is not. I am glad you believe in miracles of almost all sorts.  

I can't stand Dawkins. The guy is insufferable.

I also am confused as to how a Mary statue relates to Dawkins.

[sunstoned]

3 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

So fire destroyed everything during Harvey, only a Virgin Mary statue survived

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/28/us/harvey-fire-statue-trnd/index.html

Very similar to what happened 6 and 9 months ago 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/01/us/tennessee-wildfires-statute-trnd/index.html

https://www.facebook.com/dioceseoftyler/videos/vb.621493557965268/1334122826702334/?type=2&theater

 Are they miracles from God or Satan? The scriptures teach Satan has power, he even has power to create serpents (2 Thessalonians 2:9, Exodus 7:8–10), but LDS leaders teach that miracles from God happen in other  religions too. I honestly don't know what to believe. Can't be just a coincidence because it is happening too many times. Seems to precise to an accident.  

I am not Catholic, but to imply that Satan would have something to do with the preservation of a religious statue is very offensive.  You have been on this forum less than a month and you have said some very hurtful things about the LGBTQ community and now this.  No one is perfect and I know I have offended people too, but a good rule of thumb is to put yourself in the place of the potential readers of your posts and make sure what you are saying is objective and not hurtful.  

Edited August 29, 2017 by sunstoned

[hagoth7]

3 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

 So how can we know when it is a miracle?

My hesitancy to ascribe miraculous events to a thing you deem significant doesn't make it any more or less a miracle than it already was.

It's a miracle *for you* whenever you deem it to be miraculous.

3 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

Is it a miracle when it doesn't have a natural explanation?

Something can *be* a  miracle or be deemed a miracle whether it does or doesn't have a natural explanation.

Fair 'nuf?

Edited August 29, 2017 by hagoth7

[SamuelTheLamanite]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I can't stand Dawkins. The guy is insufferable.

I also am confused as to how a Mary statue relates to Dawkins.

I am asking you when it is something a miracle, and when it is not? because you said,  " There are lots of other possibilities beyond God saved it via miracle or the devil saved it by miracle."  What is a miracle?  I am simply pointing out that for the Dawkins community everything has a natural explanation, but just because something  has a rational explanation doesn't mean it is not a miracle. 

[Robert F. Smith]

15 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

 So how can we know when it is a miracle? Is it a miracle when it doesn't have a natural explanation?  ...................................................  

..................................................................

One can only know such things through the power of the Holy Spirit.  However, even miracles have natural explanations, except that the explanation is often beyond our understanding.

[RevTestament]

16 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

everything was destroyed, nothing else survived. 

Not only with fires, here only the statue survived an Earthquake 

https://www.facebook.com/dioceseoftyler/videos/vb.621493557965268/1334122826702334/?type=2&theater

Taking the cynical view of this one - It doesn't look like a natural placement. She is rotated facing the outer wall? Since when would we see that in a church or school? I suppose it's possible if in an inner corner of a room... I'm sure some of the locals would know.

Quote

Here is another one 

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/22/world/americas/virgin-mary-statue-intact-among-ecuadors-quake-ruins-becomes-a-beacon-of-hope.html

And out of all the statues in the area, how many were destroyed? Attributing intervention to a statue, doesn't seem like sound Christianity.

[RevTestament]

16 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

So fire destroyed everything during Harvey, only a Virgin Mary statue survived

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/28/us/harvey-fire-statue-trnd/index.html

Very similar to what happened 6 and 9 months ago 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/01/us/tennessee-wildfires-statute-trnd/index.html

https://www.facebook.com/dioceseoftyler/videos/vb.621493557965268/1334122826702334/?type=2&theater

 Are they miracles from God or Satan? The scriptures teach Satan has power, he even has power to create serpents (2 Thessalonians 2:9, Exodus 7:8–10), but LDS leaders teach that miracles from God happen in other  religions too. I honestly don't know what to believe. Can't be just a coincidence because it is happening too many times. Seems to precise to an accident.  

How many Mary statues were destroyed? Some things do survive. Especially statues made of cement or stone. I bet statues at a statuary also survived the storm - maybe including statues of Neptune. But that doesn't mean I am going to worship Neptune.

My parents went on a temple trip with my future in-laws... unbeknownst at the time to them. The bus caught fire and burned to the ground. Luggage and clothes were lost. One of the only things that survived was a set of scriptures with temple names in them. They went on to the temple in another bus with their scriptures, and performed the temple work. My parents lost everything except what was on their person.

[thesometimesaint]

A man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest.

SEE

 

[SamuelTheLamanite]

22 hours ago, hagoth7 said:

Statues of stone are rarely destroyed by fire.

I like what Robert Smith told me "even miracles have natural explanations, except that the explanation is often beyond our understanding." 

5 hours ago, RevTestament said:

How many Mary statues were destroyed? Some things do survive. Especially statues made of cement or stone. I bet statues at a statuary also survived the storm - maybe including statues of Neptune. But that doesn't mean I am going to worship Neptune.

Same. 

When did a Neptune statue survive? 

[SamuelTheLamanite]

6 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

One can only know such things through the power of the Holy Spirit.  However, even miracles have natural explanations, except that the explanation is often beyond our understanding.

I like that! I am going to use that to defend miracles. 

[SamuelTheLamanite]

8 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

One can only know such things through the power of the Holy Spirit.  However, even miracles have natural explanations, except that the explanation is often beyond our understanding.

Thank You for liking my comment. Does that mean you believe the events described in the open post are miracles?  

[3DOP]

21 hours ago, sunstoned said:

I am not Catholic, but to imply that Satan would have something to do with the preservation of a religious statue is very offensive.  You have been on this forum less than a month and you have said some very hurtful things about the LGBTQ community and now this.  No one is perfect and I know I have offended people too, but a good rule of thumb is to put yourself in the place of the potential readers of your posts and make sure what you are saying is objective and not hurtful.  

I am Catholic, sunstoned, and I appreciate Samuel's speculations. It is more complimentary to be thought to be possibly Satanic, than to just have apparent miracles brushed off as hoaxes. Samuel is Mormon; he appreciates a phenomenon that he can't explain if Catholicism (devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary), were false. For the record, I know nothing about this stuff he has brought up. There are other miracles though, that seem more difficult to explain away, that have helped give me confidence in my faith.

[SamuelTheLamanite]

8 minutes ago, 3DOP said:

 There are other miracles though, that seem more difficult to explain away, that have helped give me confidence in my faith.

Please share them. Why do you believe in Catholicism? Do you believe Mary appeared to Cuauhtlatoatzin?   

[Robert F. Smith]

5 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

Thank You for liking my comment. Does that mean you believe the events described in the open post are miracles?  

I don't know whether they are so-called "miracles," and the Roman Catholic Church has some very careful and serious methods for evaluating such claims.  For example, stone may simply survive better in tough circumstances, so that more than ordinary survival may be required in order to be regarded as "miraculous."

Edited August 30, 2017 by Robert F. Smith

[SamuelTheLamanite]

Quote

A man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest.

Can you clarify? 

Edited August 30, 2017 by SamuelTheLamanite