Hamba Tuhan Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 4 hours ago, Calm said: "This is my official announcement and declaration"... Does that sound like something intended by the writer to be kept quiet? Facebook has security settings. I post everything as 'public', which means anyone can read it whether one of my 'Facebook friends' or not. It would be interesting to know if this 'declaration' was 'public' or 'friends'. I have a guess.
Hamba Tuhan Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, Calm said: She said that she first wanted to be a teacher at BYU-Idaho to help make changes and create a more accepting culture on campus. “Now that I’m fired I don’t have the opportunity inside to make that change,” she said. Bingo! Sounds exactly like my former flatmate's soon-to-be apostate brother, mentioned earlier in this thread, who sought an opportunity to teach at BYU specifically so he could influence his students. Edited July 24, 2017 by Hamba Tuhan 1
rockpond Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 6 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Then you're not being a very forceful advocate for her. Not that I'm interested in what she has to say anyway. Good -- it wasn't really my goal to be an advocate for her. And I figured you weren't really interested which is why I didn't want to waste my time.
rockpond Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 52 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: Facebook has security settings. I post everything as 'public', which means anyone can read it whether one of my 'Facebook friends' or not. It would be interesting to know if this 'declaration' was 'public' or 'friends'. I have a guess. She has said, quite a few times, that it was not a public post and that it was only shared with her friends (which did not include any BYUI students).
rockpond Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 6 hours ago, Calm said: Actually, one of the quotes posted iirc does speak of one of the reasons she wanted to teach at BYUI was to change it. add-on: perhaps I misremembered reading it here as well as on this site: "Robertson said she wasn’t and isn’t trying to bash the university or her church, calling her actions “not an attack.” She said that the school administrators hadn’t done anything to offend her. “The most important thing is that I wasn’t gunning for the school or the church,” she said. “I want people to know that these men were so kind during these interactions. Eric was more sad that I was leaving than I was.” She said that she first wanted to be a teacher at BYU-Idaho to help make changes and create a more accepting culture on campus. “Now that I’m fired I don’t have the opportunity inside to make that change,” she said. “I want people to realize that some in our church take our beliefs and views to extremes that causes harm to others. It’s out of love that I want these changes to happen.” http://www.rexburgstandardjournal.com/news/education/byu-idaho-faculty-member-says-she-was-fired-for-facebook/article_718b30da-763b-500b-8230-d4f3b51f08ae.html Making changes and creating a more acceptable culture on campus seem to be worthy goals. 2
Gray Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) On 7/21/2017 at 7:45 PM, Stargazer said: You've got to be kidding me. We haven't done much with them? First of all, it's clear that you don't understand the role of air power in any conflict, or the interlocking relationship between the air-to-air and the air-to-ground roles. The key term is "air superiority", which can be defined as keeping the enemy's air-to-air combat aircraft from interfering with your ground attack and logistical missions. It is true that where the enemy has no effective combat aircraft to oppose your air operations, the air superiority mission seems superfluous. But just because air superiority does not appear to be at issue in a given conflict does not mean that it will never again be at issue. In the Gulf War, the Iraqi air force briefly attempted to challenge allied air superiority, but quickly learned they couldn't do it -- because the allied side had fighter jets that could defeat all such attempts. If we had not had such fighter aircraft, it might have been possible for the IAF to achieve temporary local air superiority and defeat our air operations, but we did and they couldn't. Even in Vietnam there was very little air-to-air action, because the North Vietnamese knew there was little they could do to challenge American air superiority (actually air supremacy). But please remember that the only reason why much hasn't happened in the fighter jet category is simply because we have owned the air -- this will not always be the case. You're apparently trying to tell us that we think the lack of elephants in our backyard is because we have good elephant repellent, but we're misguided because there are no elephants, silly boys! You might think so, but if we ever go to where there are elephants, the repellent better be effective. When the elephant repellent costs $1.5 trillion dollars, it might be a good idea to switch to a cheaper brand, especially since all the elephants we've encountered over the last 40 years have been dog-sized. We can't sustain these kinds of boondoggles, especially when the ROI is totally theoretical. The ROI on college education is much more tangible and measurable. Quote Well, ha ha, that sounds like a liberal campfire story. It's not. You might give this a read: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/05/opinion/sunday/the-real-reason-college-tuition-costs-so-much.html Quote Interestingly, increased spending has not been going into the pockets of the typical professor. Salaries of full-time faculty members are, on average, barely higher than they were in 1970. Moreover, while 45 years ago 78 percent of college and university professors were full time, today half of postsecondary faculty members are lower-paid part-time employees, meaning that the average salaries of the people who do the teaching in American higher education are actually quite a bit lower than they were in 1970. By contrast, a major factor driving increasing costs is the constant expansion of university administration. According to the Department of Education data, administrative positions at colleges and universities grew by 60 percent between 1993 and 2009, which Bloomberg reported was 10 times the rate of growth of tenured faculty positions. Even more strikingly, an analysis by a professor at California Polytechnic University, Pomona, found that, while the total number of full-time faculty members in the C.S.U. system grew from 11,614 to 12,019 between 1975 and 2008, the total number of administrators grew from 3,800 to 12,183 — a 221 percent increase. Quote Yeah, it's like the legendary college student (or college graduate) who can't find his own country on a map of the earth is a mythological creature. Or the one who not only couldn't tell you who his congressional representatives are (and doesn't know how to look them up to see who they are), he or she has no idea if he or she even has any. Or those which say how wonderful socialism would be, but when asked to define what it is, go eerily silent or worse, make stuff up. I wouldn't call such people "informed," and I am very much afraid that our colleges and universities are turning out such "informed" people in bulk. Having a bachelor's degree and having a clue are not necessarily equivalent. In fact, conferring the status of "informed" on someone who has such a degree comes perilously close to making an appeal to authority. Or, perhaps, it might be better to categorize this as denying the antecedent: a bachelor's degree makes one informed; therefore, without a bachelor's degree, one is not informed. When all is said and done, having a bachelor's degree means that one has the mental capacity to learn some new things, and the ability to show up regularly and somewhat punctually in classrooms. Now, don't get me wrong, these are good indicators for success. But they are the only things that a bachelor's can reliably guarantee. I remember the day when one of my new coworkers with a shiny new Computer Science degree demonstrated that he couldn't program his way out of a wet paper algorithm. I don't know. I'm pretty sure there are too many, however many there are. If you have no idea, then why do you keep bringing it up? It's a straw man that you keep endlessly beating because it's the easiest of targets. Edited July 24, 2017 by Gray
CV75 Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 1 hour ago, rockpond said: Making changes and creating a more acceptable culture on campus seem to be worthy goals. But this doesn't seem to be the reason shew as fired. What was the most reliably reported reason again?
Guest Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 9 hours ago, rockpond said: According to Robertson, her contract only required her to have a temple recommend. Well that is a topic easily picked apart, but I would rather not.
rockpond Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 54 minutes ago, CV75 said: But this doesn't seem to be the reason shew as fired. What was the most reliably reported reason again? In her interview with Dehlin, Robertson explained that the reason they gave is that she wasn't able to fulfill the mission of the university in strengthening the students' faith and testimony (or something to that effect - I'm sorry I can't remember it exactly).
bluebell Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, rockpond said: In her interview with Dehlin, Robertson explained that the reason they gave is that she wasn't able to fulfill the mission of the university in strengthening the students' faith and testimony (or something to that effect - I'm sorry I can't remember it exactly). That seems reasonable. 2
CV75 Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 6 minutes ago, rockpond said: In her interview with Dehlin, Robertson explained that the reason they gave is that she wasn't able to fulfill the mission of the university in strengthening the students' faith and testimony (or something to that effect - I'm sorry I can't remember it exactly). I see; thank you. It seems the university has its own aims in helping students change their lives and create a Zion culture, and evidently she wasn't a good fit in that department. 2
Rain Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: Facebook has security settings. I post everything as 'public', which means anyone can read it whether one of my 'Facebook friends' or not. It would be interesting to know if this 'declaration' was 'public' or 'friends'. I have a guess. At one time you could limit it to "friends" or even "friends of friends". I'm not seeing the "friends of friends" now though. I'm just thinking how even if you don't make everything "public" these things often can and are seen by those other than friends. At 23 she is at the age where many of her friends could be her students or her students friends. While she may not have any of her students as "friends" it is perfectly reasonable that their friends will see her posts. Why is she calling her students "kids". Does she only teach freshmen? Considering missions it is likely that a good number of the BYUI students are older than she is. Edited July 24, 2017 by Rain 1
Scott Lloyd Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) 11 hours ago, rockpond said: Making changes and creating a more acceptable culture on campus seem to be worthy goals. It sounds like sophistry to disguise what she really wanted to do, which was to subversively transform the Church to suit her ideological whims by propagandizing impressionable minds. All the while drawing a paycheck from a Church-owned school funded from the tithes of faithful Church members. Seems eerily reminiscent of Grant Palmer. Good riddance, say I. Edited July 25, 2017 by Scott Lloyd 3
Scott Lloyd Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 7 minutes ago, Rain said: At one time you could limit it to friends or even friends of friends. I'm not seeing the friends of friends now though. I'm just thinking how even if you don't make everything public these things often can and are seen by those other than friends. At 23 she is at the age where many of her friends could be her students or her students friends. While she may not have any of her students as friends it is perfectly reasonable that their friends will see her posts. Why is she calling her students "kids". Does she only teach freshmen? Considering missions it is likely that a good number of the BYUI students are old than she is. But you see, regardless of chronological age, they are her intellectual inferiors, making them children in her exalted eyes. Or something like that. 2
rockpond Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: It sounds like sophistry to disguise what she really wanted to do, which was to subversively transform the Church to suit her ideological whims by propagandizing impressionable minds. All the while drawing a paycheck from a Church-owned school. Seems eerily reminiscent of Grant Palmer. Good riddance, say I. I'm sure you do. It is consistent with the pattern I've seen from you here to assume the worst about those who disagree with you and to accuse them of lying or otherwise lacking integrity. It's a form of confirmation bias. 1
rockpond Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: But you see, regardless of chronological age, they are her intellectual inferiors, making them children in her exalted eyes. Or something like that. I assume you haven't actually listened to her tell her own story, right?
Amulek Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 11 hours ago, rockpond said: In what Calm posted the Reddit user, presumably Robertson, is speaking of within the church. She doesn't mention trying to influence her students. I have no reason to believe that Robertson is lying when she has said multiple times that she kept her views out of the classroom, away from students, and did not allow students to friend her on Facebook when she made the post. No evidence to the contrary has been presented, to my knowledge. Well, I wouldn’t say “no evidence;” evidence of questionable provenance maybe, but not ‘no evidence.’ Back on Page 10, SteveO posted a screenshot from a one Preston Waltman, who is allegedly in her class, and he claims that she shared her views on homosexuality multiple times in the classroom. 3
Amulek Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 37 minutes ago, Rain said: [...] I'm just thinking how even if you don't make everything public these things often can and are seen by those other than friends. Exactly. All of your "private" Facebook posts are just like anything else on the internet: merely a click or two away from being shared with the entire world. 2
Scott Lloyd Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 52 minutes ago, rockpond said: I assume you haven't actually listened to her tell her own story, right? The Facebook quotes I've seen speak volumes. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 29 minutes ago, Amulek said: Exactly. All of your "private" Facebook posts are just like anything else on the internet: merely a click or two away from being shared with the entire world. And if she didn't intend for them to go public initially, what of it? They are what they are and the public gets to view her true persona and clandestine plans not meant for public consumption. We thus benefit thereby. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 1 hour ago, CV75 said: I see; thank you. It seems the university has its own aims in helping students change their lives and create a Zion culture, and evidently she wasn't a good fit in that department. Her new job seems a better fit.
rockpond Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 2 hours ago, Amulek said: Well, I wouldn’t say “no evidence;” evidence of questionable provenance maybe, but not ‘no evidence.’ Back on Page 10, SteveO posted a screenshot from a one Preston Waltman, who is allegedly in her class, and he claims that she shared her views on homosexuality multiple times in the classroom. I just went and read that post by SteveO. Interesting. If that was how she behaved in class it is tough to believe that could have lasted as long as she did at BYUI. Regarding her post being public, she did make it public after the end of the semester when she was no longer a BYUI teacher.
rockpond Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: The Facebook quotes I've seen speak volumes. Listening to her personal account does as well. 1
USU78 Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: Her new job seems a better fit. Ouch.
6EQUJ5 Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: And if she didn't intend for them to go public initially, what of it? They are what they are and the public gets to view her true persona and clandestine plans not meant for public consumption. We thus benefit thereby. One thing I love about Scott is how he can make everything sound like a James Bond movie. It's awesome.
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