thesometimesaint Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 Rockpond: I'm neither a fan nor critic of military hardware. However we long ago developed airplanes that exceed the human capacity to pilot them.
rockpond Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 Just now, thesometimesaint said: Rockpond: I'm neither a fan nor critic of military hardware. However we long ago developed airplanes that exceed the human capacity to pilot them. Not sure what you are talking about.
thesometimesaint Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 2 minutes ago, rockpond said: Not sure what you are talking about. The need for newer better military hardware to counter any potential or real threat to the US.
Jane_Doe Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 17 minutes ago, rockpond said: Opposing gay marriage isn't supporting diversity. To truly support diversity is to support *ALL* views/people/lifestyles. An person who says "I support diversity! Oh, except those people who think/live/believe that..." doesn't really support diversity at all.
rockpond Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 17 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said: The need for newer better military hardware to counter any potential or real threat to the US. You might have me confused with someone else. And that is off topic.
rockpond Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 17 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: To truly support diversity is to support *ALL* views/people/lifestyles. An person who says "I support diversity! Oh, except those people who think/live/believe that..." doesn't really support diversity at all. Exactly. Which is why opposing gay marriage is not supporting diversity. 2
Jane_Doe Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, rockpond said: Exactly. Which is why opposing gay marriage is not supporting diversity. You're misunderstanding. If somebody wants to say "I support diversity!" then they need to support ALL views. They need to SUPPORT a person who says "I think homosexual relations are sinful". They need to WELCOME such a person into their fold and EMBRACE them. They need to give them a platform to proclaim "homosexual relations are sinful" and welcome them to say it. To say "I support diversity" and then "oh you're fired for your views" is not supporting diversity at all. Edited July 26, 2017 by Jane_Doe 2
rockpond Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 1 minute ago, Jane_Doe said: You're misunderstanding. If somebody wants to say "I support diversity!" then they need to support ALL views. They need to SUPPORT a person who says "I think homosexual relations are sinful". They need to WELCOME such a person into their fold and EMBRACE them. To say "I support diversity" and then "oh you're fired for your views" is not supporting diversity at all. I agree, one can believe that homosexual relations are sinful, but if you want to proclaim that gay people should not get married - that is not supporting diversity. 1
thesometimesaint Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 11 minutes ago, rockpond said: You might have me confused with someone else. And that is off topic. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it you who thought that the US doesn't need the latest in military equipment?
USU78 Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 30 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said: The need for newer better military hardware to counter any potential or real threat to the US. Said Marshall Petain, upon completion of the Maginot Line fortifications.
rockpond Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 2 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said: Forgive me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it you who thought that the US doesn't need the latest in military equipment? Not at all. I think that odd off topic subthread should have been stopped a long time ago.
thesometimesaint Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 As I said I'm neither a fan nor a critic of military hardware. Just that we've long had planes that exceed the human capacity to pilot them. Pilots wearing G-suits helps but doesn't eliminate that problem.
thesometimesaint Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 7 minutes ago, USU78 said: Said Marshall Petain, upon completion of the Maginot Line fortifications. As I said I'm neither a fan nor a critic of military hardware. Just that we've long had planes that exceed the human capacity to pilot them. Pilots wearing G-suits helps but doesn't eliminate that problem.
USU78 Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 Just now, thesometimesaint said: As I said I'm neither a fan nor a critic of military hardware. Just that we've long had planes that exceed the human capacity to pilot them. Pilots wearing G-suits helps but doesn't eliminate that problem. My eldest brother, the coldwar hero of the fighter air war, has a skeleton in his 71-year-old body that bears the marks of exceeding human capacity. But he wouldn't change a thing.
Jane_Doe Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, rockpond said: I agree, one can believe that homosexual relations are sinful, but if you want to proclaim that gay people should not get married - that is not supporting diversity. I was talking about "Bob" who says "I support diversity- but not you- you're fired because you don't support gay marriage". Such people are pretenders and mock the "diversity" they claim to support. Obviously "John" who doesn't support gay marriage doesn't equally support all lifestyles, nor does he pretend to. Edited July 26, 2017 by Jane_Doe
ksfisher Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 13 minutes ago, rockpond said: I agree, one can believe that homosexual relations are sinful, but if you want to proclaim that gay people should not get married - that is not supporting diversity. But if you don't support people who proclaim that gay people should not get married that's not supporting diversity either. 1
thesometimesaint Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 16 minutes ago, USU78 said: My eldest brother, the coldwar hero of the fighter air war, has a skeleton in his 71-year-old body that bears the marks of exceeding human capacity. But he wouldn't change a thing. High G turns aren't what the human body is designed for. We tend to Black Out, and if a pilot in an aircraft blacks out that isn't a good thing.
rockpond Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 1 hour ago, ksfisher said: But if you don't support people who proclaim that gay people should not get married that's not supporting diversity either. Supporting diversity is supporting the rights of those who are different than you. If you don't support the right of a gay person to enter a same-sex marriage, you aren't supporting diversity. 3
rockpond Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Jane_Doe said: I was talking about "Bob" who says "I support diversity- but not you- you're fired because you don't support gay marriage". Such people are pretenders and mock the "diversity" they claim to support. Obviously "John" who doesn't support gay marriage doesn't equally support all lifestyles, nor does he pretend to. I'm not sure I followed you. But here's the issue I have with BYUI terminating Robertson's contract: They were clearly within their rights as an organization. But, in so doing, they (and subsequently we, as a church) need to accept that if we are going to fire people for supporting gay marriage, it is equally fair to fire someone for opposing gay marriage. If you are willing to accept this premise, than we agree.
Jane_Doe Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 2 minutes ago, rockpond said: I'm not sure I followed you. But here's the issue I have with BYUI terminating Robertson's contract: They were clearly within their rights as an organization. But, in so doing, they (and subsequently we, as a church) need to accept that if we are going to fire people for supporting gay marriage, it is equally fair to fire someone for opposing gay marriage. If you are willing to accept this premise, than we agree. Not at all. If an employer says "I promote all diversity", then all views should be welcome, including anti-gay marriage. BYU does not make any such claim- in fact says the very opposite openly. I have no qualms with other organization likewise not making such claims. 1
rockpond Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 8 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: Not at all. If an employer says "I promote all diversity", then all views should be welcome, including anti-gay marriage. BYU does not make any such claim- in fact says the very opposite openly. I have no qualms with other organization likewise not making such claims. So then BYUI does not promote diversity, right? And an organization that believes in the rights of a gay couple to be married, should be able to terminate a Mormon who posts on social media their belief that gays should not be married? Correct?
Jane_Doe Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 10 minutes ago, rockpond said: So then BYUI does not promote diversity, right? Diversity of life styles, and especially promoting them as a teacher? Of course not. It is very much in their mission statement and preached that they have set values which they are promoting. Nothing is hidden about this. 10 minutes ago, rockpond said: And an organization that believes in the rights of a gay couple to be married, should be able to terminate a Mormon who posts on social media their belief that gays should not be married? Correct? Does that organization say they are promoting diversity? 1
rockpond Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 6 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: Diversity of life styles, and especially promoting them as a teacher? Of course not. It is very much in their mission statement and preached that they have set values which they are promoting. Nothing is hidden about this. I think it has yet to be proven that Robertson promoted gay marriage "as a teacher". But I agree, nothing was hidden and BYUI was in their rights. 6 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: Does that organization say they are promoting diversity? Why would it matter? If the organization believes in a gay couple's right to marry (and has it written in the organization's values) -and- a Mormon employee professes on social media their belief that gay couples should not marry, than the organization should be able to terminate the employee, just like BYUI, right?
ksfisher Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 49 minutes ago, rockpond said: Supporting diversity is supporting the rights of those who are different than you. If you don't support the right of a gay person to enter a same-sex marriage, you aren't supporting diversity. But if you are supporting the right of a person to not support your kind of diversity then you aren't supporting diversity, you're only supporting the diversity that you agree with. And that is called discrimination. I'm really only joking.
Gray Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 43 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: Not at all. If an employer says "I promote all diversity", then all views should be welcome, including anti-gay marriage. BYU does not make any such claim- in fact says the very opposite openly. I have no qualms with other organization likewise not making such claims. You seem to be conflating opinions with people. Diversity is about accepting people regardless of categories that are intrinsic to the self. No one is born with the opinion, for example, that whites are the superior race. But people are born male or female or gay or straight or Hispanic or Asian. But to take your argument further along its logical conclusion, true diversity must include people with the opinion that people who don't support diversity should not be welcome. Right?
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