Robert F. Smith Posted January 2, 2017 Posted January 2, 2017 16 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: So are histrionics devoid of rationality -- such as equating Donald Trump with Adolf Hitler. Character will out, and we will see what happens over time. Hitler and Mussolini did not begin as totalitarian dictators, and were heavily lauded by their supporters for practical results (like making the trains run on time). We will see whether the Donald ends up being impeached, or becomes like his hero Putin* by amassing tremendous wealth and power -- heedless of American law and tradition. There was once a Mormon expert on Germany (Dale Clark) who thought the Nazis were O.K., and said so publicly -- only to find himself a little over a decade later heading the Allied occupation group responsible for completely reformulating the German gov't in newly democratic form. Fluent in German, he held important conversations with Germans who would become that new gov't, and even had an audience with the Pope in order to establish his credibility with Roman Catholic Germans. He and his men wrote the new German Constitution. * Vladimir Putin is currently the wealthiest and most powerful man on the Earth today. 2
Robert F. Smith Posted January 2, 2017 Posted January 2, 2017 16 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: Political divide starkest in Utah? Try being a conservative in western Washington. There is only a monologue here. The judge and jury haven't even been selected for Trump yet. Why not give it few months at least before calling for the guilty verdict? Is that like waiting for Godot? Or would it be better to go with Pogo Possum: "We have met the enemy, and he is us." 1
bluebell Posted January 2, 2017 Posted January 2, 2017 7 minutes ago, Meadowchik said: There are plenty: his business dealings, in myriad ways, his family infidelities, his use of government to bulldoze private individuals for his gain, his treatment of women, his cabinet appointments, his choice to run for POTUS while being very ignorant of US government and the Constitution, his choice to run apparently without having a suitable way to eliminate conflicts of interest.... But I would not underestimate the importance of his speech....as POTUS a big part of his influence is as a talking head, a communicator. I've had to study past presidents, and sadly, this explains a lot of them. If you take out the "no political experience" part it explains most of them (the ones I've studied. I haven't studied them all by far). What I think a lot of people are reacting to with Trump is that he hasn't hid any of this much, whereas past career politicians that were elected did. They see him as someone so frightening because they are unaware how he is similar to some past presidents. In my opinion, Trump isn't that dangerous. The American public, who is so good at reacting on purely emotional levels with very little accurate information or knowledge and who immediately ramp every disagreement or fear to "Hitler" levels regardless of how baseless the comparison is, is dangerous. Emotional, ignorant majorities are dangerous. Any person can become dangerous with that kind of backing so that's what I'm worried about. 4
Calm Posted January 2, 2017 Posted January 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Meadowchik said: I cannot second guess why Chamberlain herself made the comparison, but I can draw comparisons that have concerned me, independently of this controversy with the MTC. I disagree about the danger of Trump. He's the worst major party nominee in living memory, what makes him so is cause for great alarm. Everyone should be checking him and pressuring at every turn. If he turns out to do some good, it won't be because people put blind faith in him, it will be because of people who say his current character is inadequate, it will be because people pressure him to be a better man, NOT because people believe his pandering. If Trump continues like he has behaved so far, he will bring shame to the office. I hope he steps up, but I have no reason to believe he will so I raise my objections. He may figure out it is in his best interest to act 'presidential', but I would not be surprised if he thinks post office he can just return to business as usual. 1
Calm Posted January 2, 2017 Posted January 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Duncan said: If the President is sworn to uphold the constitution why does he swear by the bible? I think a politically neutral Church, anybody actually believe that???? When the choir finishes singing should they leave? as I say before too why doesn't the KKK sing, they have the robes for it. I think they should not attend and shouldn't be surprised at any of the backlash Duncan, my experience is that Canadians get really ticked off...and rightly so...when Americans start telling them how they should run their country. Allowing each country, province, state, and community to follow their own heritage and traditions, realizing we may not get why it is important to them, what they are expressing seems to me like a good idea if we truly support diversity. 4
Scott Lloyd Posted January 2, 2017 Posted January 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Meadowchik said: I cannot second guess why Chamberlain herself made the comparison, but I can draw comparisons that have concerned me, independently of this controversy with the MTC. I disagree about the danger of Trump. He's the worst major party nominee in living memory, what makes him so is cause for great alarm. Everyone should be checking him and pressuring at every turn. If he turns out to do some good, it won't be because people put blind faith in him, it will be because of people who say his current character is inadequate, it will be because people pressure him to be a better man, NOT because people believe his pandering. If Trump continues like he has behaved so far, he will bring shame to the office. I hope he steps up, but I have no reason to believe he will so I raise my objections. You're not going to allow for the possibility that you and others are misunderstanding him, then. 1
strappinglad Posted January 2, 2017 Posted January 2, 2017 I suspect the air waves will be filled for the next 4 years with all the terrible thoughts ,words, and actions of Trump. The MSM have chosen to do all in their power to make sure the anomaly of a Trump win will never be repeated and some have chosen to invoke( ignore?) Godwin's law in order to accomplish the task. The Honeymoon ended within 5 minutes of the election outcome. About 47% of the electorate are now to be considered morons and without moral standing. This will be( has been ) reinforced daily if not hourly by twitter, facebook, and much of the media .These actions may bare fruit. They may have the exact opposite effect. All this before Trump has actually been sworn in. " He may figure out it is in his best interest to act 'presidential', but I would not be surprised if he thinks post office he can just return to business as usual. " Let's all hope he never thinks ' post office ' All kinds of bad scenarios arise. 2
Scott Lloyd Posted January 2, 2017 Posted January 2, 2017 41 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: Character will out, and we will see what happens over time. Hitler and Mussolini did not begin as totalitarian dictators, and were heavily lauded by their supporters for practical results (like making the trains run on time). We will see whether the Donald ends up being impeached, or becomes like his hero Putin* by amassing tremendous wealth and power -- heedless of American law and tradition. There was once a Mormon expert on Germany (Dale Clark) who thought the Nazis were O.K., and said so publicly -- only to find himself a little over a decade later heading the Allied occupation group responsible for completely reformulating the German gov't in newly democratic form. Fluent in German, he held important conversations with Germans who would become that new gov't, and even had an audience with the Pope in order to establish his credibility with Roman Catholic Germans. He and his men wrote the new German Constitution. * Vladimir Putin is currently the wealthiest and most powerful man on the Earth today. Of course Hitler didn't start out as totalitarian dictator; he had no power. But you've already said Hitler spelled out his attitudes in Mien Kampf (which is true; I'm reading it now). I still say comparing Trump to Hitler, before he has even stepped into the Oval Office is irrational.
Duncan Posted January 2, 2017 Posted January 2, 2017 Just now, Scott Lloyd said: You're not going to allow for the possibility that you and others are misunderstanding him, then. I think people understand him all to well and that's what terrifying and mind numbing. PUSA have had scandals in the past but why repeat them? why not learn from them? of all the people in the US why elect Trump? He picked up politics as a hobby last year and now he's, I think, got called on his own bluff and got elected and has clue what to do 1
Sleeper Cell Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 2 hours ago, Duncan said: Do you honestly think the transfer from Obama to Trump has been peaceful? we'll see what former PUSA show up to this. If the President is sworn to uphold the constitution why does he swear by the bible? I think a politically neutral Church, anybody actually believe that???? When the choir finishes singing should they leave? as I say before too why doesn't the KKK sing, they have the robes for it. I think they should not attend and shouldn't be surprised at any of the backlash More “MTC hysteria.” 1. Hasn’t been peaceful? I must have overslept and missed the military coup. After all, it is not like Pres Obama has personally met with Pres-elect Trump to help facilitate the transfer of power. Nor has he offered him security briefings … Oh, wait. 2. CFR that the president “swearing in on the Bible” violates the constitution. (By which I mean the US constitution, not that of some other country, and certainly not someone’s paraphrase of it,) George Washington didn’t think so (he began the tradition of the president “swearing in on the Bible,” and concluded his oath with the words “so help me God.”). Apparently, neither did any of the various Supreme Court Chief Justices who, over the years, have sworn in most of our presidents. 3. With all due respect, I don’t think you have any idea of what “politically neutral” means. The Church is politically neutral in this matter precisely because it doesn’t turn down presidential invitations on the grounds it disapproves of the president. 4. So now you are comparing the choir robes of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir to the robes of the KKK? ... Sad. 2
Duncan Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) Just now, Sleeper Cell said: More “MTC hysteria.” 1. Hasn’t been peaceful? I must have overslept and missed the military coup. After all, it is not like Pres Obama has personally met with Pres-elect Trump to help facilitate the transfer of power. Nor has he offered him security briefings … Oh, wait. 2. CFR that the president “swearing in on the Bible” violates the constitution. (By which I mean the US constitution, not that of some other country, and certainly not someone’s paraphrase of it,) George Washington didn’t think so (he began the tradition of the president “swearing in on the Bible,” and concluded his oath with the words “so help me God.”). Apparently, neither did any of the various Supreme Court Chief Justices who, over the years, have sworn in most of our presidents. 3. With all due respect, I don’t think you have any idea of what “politically neutral” means. The Church is politically neutral in this matter precisely because it doesn’t turn down presidential invitations on the grounds it disapproves of the president. 4. So now you are comparing the choir robes of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir to the robes of the KKK? ... Sad. Has trump attended security briefings? hmmmmmmmmmmm, the Russians are hacking and he doesn't seem to care. Pres. Benson would be rolling over in his grave right now. Have you paid attention to the uptick in violence since Trump got elected? that's what I am talking about and what has he done to stop it? 2) if you sworn to uphold the constitution wouldn't it make sense to swear on the constitution. I've never read it and don't care to or my own country's 3) I like you!!!! if you invited me over for dinner i'd totally accept it, unless you're serving blood pudding or boiled raccoon! Where does it end though with invites? if a hooker invited me to partake would I be justified in saying well, sure it's not like I approve of ti but i'm just representing everyone who can't and it's an honour or something. To me, politically neutral means you don't get involved in politics, your country or anyone else's. You stay out of politics because you don't want to be seen as favouring one person over another or that being a good member means you'd vote for this or that party. What would the worst thing that could happen if the Church said no to this invite? 4) I wasn't comparing the MTC to the KKK, i'm saying they probably have a choir or could get one and could sing and they already have the robes for it, just ditch the hat piece. Edited January 3, 2017 by Duncan
Jeanne Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 7 hours ago, Meadowchik said: A lot IS working, on the other hand. I agree...now lets take the could things and make it better...this is my hope anyway. 2
Scott Lloyd Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 1 hour ago, strappinglad said: I suspect the air waves will be filled for the next 4 years with all the terrible thoughts ,words, and actions of Trump. The MSM have chosen to do all in their power to make sure the anomaly of a Trump win will never be repeated and some have chosen to invoke( ignore?) Godwin's law in order to accomplish the task. The Honeymoon ended within 5 minutes of the election outcome. About 47% of the electorate are now to be considered morons and without moral standing. This will be( has been ) reinforced daily if not hourly by twitter, facebook, and much of the media .These actions may bare fruit. They may have the exact opposite effect. All this before Trump has actually been sworn in. " He may figure out it is in his best interest to act 'presidential', but I would not be surprised if he thinks post office he can just return to business as usual. " Let's all hope he never thinks ' post office ' All kinds of bad scenarios arise. I wonder if anyone has a timetable for when they expect Trump to have turned into Hitler. I'd like to track this thing if I can. 2
Scott Lloyd Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 37 minutes ago, Sleeper Cell said: More “MTC hysteria.” 1. Hasn’t been peaceful? I must have overslept and missed the military coup. After all, it is not like Pres Obama has personally met with Pres-elect Trump to help facilitate the transfer of power. Nor has he offered him security briefings … Oh, wait. 2. CFR that the president “swearing in on the Bible” violates the constitution. (By which I mean the US constitution, not that of some other country, and certainly not someone’s paraphrase of it,) George Washington didn’t think so (he began the tradition of the president “swearing in on the Bible,” and concluded his oath with the words “so help me God.”). Apparently, neither did any of the various Supreme Court Chief Justices who, over the years, have sworn in most of our presidents. 3. With all due respect, I don’t think you have any idea of what “politically neutral” means. The Church is politically neutral in this matter precisely because it doesn’t turn down presidential invitations on the grounds it disapproves of the president. 4. So now you are comparing the choir robes of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir to the robes of the KKK? ... Sad. I spent three weeks with the Tabernacle Choir last summer traveling through Europe. I don't recall ever seeing them wearing robes. I wonder how acquainted Duncan is with the choir. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Duncan said: I think people understand him all to well and that's what terrifying and mind numbing. PUSA have had scandals in the past but why repeat them? why not learn from them? of all the people in the US why elect Trump? He picked up politics as a hobby last year and now he's, I think, got called on his own bluff and got elected and has clue what to do He knows how to surround himself with able people. Successful businessmen do. If anything, that should be cause for hope. 1
Duncan Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 Just now, Scott Lloyd said: I spent three weeks with the Tabernacle Choir last summer traveling through Europe. I don't recall ever seeing them wearing robes. I wonder how acquainted Duncan is with the choir. ha ha ha i'll give you the men don't wear robes but the women are! I want to say something else about this but i'll refrain
Duncan Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 Just now, Scott Lloyd said: He knows how to surround himself with able people. Successful businessmen do. If anything, that should be cause for hope. the WWE? yes, it's successful as much as beer is successful-are Americans going to get free hulkamania posters now?
Scott Lloyd Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Duncan said: ha ha ha i'll give you the men don't wear robes but the women are! I want to say something else about this but i'll refrain Um, the women aren't wearing robes. Do you mean the dancers? They're not wearing robes either. Edited January 3, 2017 by Scott Lloyd
Scott Lloyd Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Duncan said: the WWE? yes, it's successful as much as beer is successful-are Americans going to get free hulkamania posters now? Your posts are becoming increasingly unintelligible. In trying to be clever, you are succeeding only in being opaque. Edited January 3, 2017 by Scott Lloyd 1
Duncan Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) Just now, Scott Lloyd said: Your posts are becoming increasingly unintelligible. Look what the subject matter is though. Trump got that lady from the WWE to be the small business person, like, seriously? the WWE? is KFC not available?! Edited January 3, 2017 by Duncan
Duncan Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 Just now, Scott Lloyd said: Um, the women aren't wearing robes. what do you call them then?
Scott Lloyd Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 2 minutes ago, Duncan said: what do you call them then? Dresses.
bluebell Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 1 minute ago, Duncan said: what do you call them then? It's just a dress. They don't wear other clothes under them. My friend said they are much form fitting than she thought they'd be. She said they get the dresses tailored to their measurements and if you outgrow them you can't be in the choir anymore. She's a slim lady but she said her's probably wouldn't fit anymore if she gained more than 10 lbs. 1
Jeanne Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 Just now, bluebell said: It's just a dress. They don't wear other clothes under them. My friend said they are much form fitting than she thought they'd be. She said they get the dresses tailored to their measurements and if you outgrow them you can't be in the choir anymore. She's a slim lady but she said her's probably wouldn't fit anymore if she gained more than 10 lbs. Really??? I ought to see if I could just get in the choir to keep my weight down.. 2
bluebell Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 5 minutes ago, Jeanne said: Really??? I ought to see if I could just get in the choir to keep my weight down.. I know, right?!? She said there's a kind of sheath underneath the more flowing outer part (but it's all connected together). They look pretty loose on tv but I guess they aren't.
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