Meldrum Takes it Up a Notch - Revolutionizes Science Itself

[waveslider]

3 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

North shore?  You know you are not helping my envy any at all.  Now you have it bordering on covetousness and it's all your fault.

Well at least I would have some clean sand to pound.

I could swap you some from Venice beach with who knows what in it, including the possibility of human bits of bone from the ashes of cremated bodies that get scattered off shore, and maybe even a little blood from those who get murdered there regularly, not to mention other bodily fluids.    

That's funny because my family were some of the original settlers in the Venice Beach area, Mar Vista to be exact. There is a Venice Beach tour bus that actually stops in front of my grandparents old house and talks about them. I have had my fair share of Venice sand as a kid. Though I don't have an extra room here on the North shore, there might be some room on the couch, or perhaps in a ward member's house who does have an extra room.

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, cinepro said:

Most people don't use "natural science" at all in their lives, so unless she decided she wanted to become a biologist or geologist, I suspect she'll be able to easily go through the rest of her life without ever having to face contradictory info.

Agreed, I have a friend whose grandma asked him about what he was studying (chemistry) and he started explaining about atoms and how most of matter is empty space and then she shushed him and suggested he was being taught crazy nonsense at the school. You can make it through life pretty ignorant if you want or if you just never have to run against reality for whatever reason.

[mfbukowski]

4 hours ago, cinepro said:

Most people don't use "natural science" at all in their lives, so unless she decided she wanted to become a biologist or geologist, I suspect she'll be able to easily go through the rest of her life without ever having to face contradictory info.

I can't imagine that.  I read about science all the time just out of general interest.

[mfbukowski]

3 hours ago, waveslider said:

That's funny because my family were some of the original settlers in the Venice Beach area, Mar Vista to be exact. There is a Venice Beach tour bus that actually stops in front of my grandparents old house and talks about them. I have had my fair share of Venice sand as a kid. Though I don't have an extra room here on the North shore, there might be some room on the couch, or perhaps in a ward member's house who does have an extra room.

Venice is now known as "silicon beach".  Google has a campus there and virtually all the available office space throughout the area is occupied by snapchat.  Property values are through the roof!  We may have a mutual acquaintance named Allen S from "dogtown".    I have lived in both Mar Vista and Venice.

Edited December 7, 2016 by mfbukowski

[waveslider]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

Venice is now known as "silicon beach".  Google has a campus there and virtually all the available office space throughout the area is occupied by snapchat.  Property values are through the roof!  We may have a mutual acquaintance named Allen S from "dogtown".    I have lived in both Mar Vista and Venice.

I didn't know Allen Sarlo, but I knew Jay Adams (I was sad when he died a couple of years ago, or so) and I skateboarded with Tony Alva a few times as well, but I didn't grow up there because my two older brothers were constantly getting in trouble in the L.A. school system, so we moved the next county up when I turned 5. My Grand Parents were Melvin and Serena Smith, in Mar Vista, and My dad was Melvin Jr. Just in case you ever met, or heard, of any of them. My second cousin also was from Mar Vista, but moved to Australia when I was just a baby. His name is Bob Cooper.

Sorry for the side track of the thread.... again. Now hopefully back to the UM stuff.

[mfbukowski]

9 hours ago, waveslider said:

I didn't know Allen Sarlo, but I knew Jay Adams (I was sad when he died a couple of years ago, or so) and I skateboarded with Tony Alva a few times as well, but I didn't grow up there because my two older brothers were constantly getting in trouble in the L.A. school system, so we moved the next county up when I turned 5. My Grand Parents were Melvin and Serena Smith, in Mar Vista, and My dad was Melvin Jr. Just in case you ever met, or heard, of any of them. My second cousin also was from Mar Vista, but moved to Australia when I was just a baby. His name is Bob Cooper.

Sorry for the side track of the thread.... again. Now hopefully back to the UM stuff.

Wow! Patriarch Smith sealed us, and Cindy was one of my wife's friends! PM me and we can take this farther!

[thesometimesaint]

All she has to do is throw out some 4 Centuries of actual science.  Water on the sun. Ohhh boy. 

[waveslider]

1 hour ago, thesometimesaint said:

All she has to do is throw out some 4 Centuries of actual science.  Water on the sun. Ohhh boy. 

Actually, that isn't so far fetched as you might think: http://www.pnas.org/content/111/5/1732.abstract

[thesometimesaint]

26 minutes ago, waveslider said:

Actually, that isn't so far fetched as you might think: http://www.pnas.org/content/111/5/1732.abstract

All due deference, but on the sun isn't the solar wind's effect on silicates. Our sun can't produce oxygen.

Edited December 7, 2016 by thesometimesaint

[waveslider]

12 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

All due deference, but on the sun isn't the solar wind's effect on silicates. Our sun can't produce oxygen.

I know that. I'm not defending UM by any means. But you have to admit it is pretty interesting that the sun's energy is directly turned into water, so in essence the water comes directly from the Sun, not so much from comets or any of the other hypothesis' that science has been wrong about for the last 4 centuries.

[bcuzbcuz]

21 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

I have often noticed that rocks typically float so it makes total sense that an entire continent would also float.

 I mean it's not like all when I do dishes and the dishes sink and if there is too much water in the basin the water overflows or anything like that because..........  Uh....... why was that again?   

Wait a minute....floating rocks....floating dishes....I´m feeling dizzy.

[waveslider]

12 minutes ago, bcuzbcuz said:

Wait a minute....floating rocks....floating dishes....I´m feeling dizzy.

What will really make you dizzy is that there are Iron Wood trees here in Hawaii that are so dense they sink, and if you find volcanic pumice stones they actually do float.

[bcuzbcuz]

19 hours ago, cinepro said:

Most people don't use "natural science" at all in their lives, so unless she decided she wanted to become a biologist or geologist, I suspect she'll be able to easily go through the rest of her life without ever having to face contradictory info.

I agree 100%. Merely being surrounded by something like electricity or science, doesn´t mean that a person will understand it.  It is quite easy to ignore ideas that conflict with preconceptions. 

In my wife´s pre-school class, a group of 4 year olds were discussing whether the earth had two moons, one that is whole and the other that is a half. They finally agreed that there are three moons, one that is whole, one that is half and one that looks like a crooked smile. That makes more sense than the idea that the earth spins at a thousand kilometers an hour, and the moon shows only one face. 

I  like the three moon idea better that what I was taught in school?

[cinepro]

5 minutes ago, bcuzbcuz said:

I agree 100%. Merely being surrounded by something like electricity or science, doesn´t mean that a person will understand it.  It is quite easy to ignore ideas that conflict with preconceptions. 

In my wife´s pre-school class, a group of 4 year olds were discussing whether the earth had two moons, one that is whole and the other that is a half. They finally agreed that there are three moons, one that is whole, one that is half and one that looks like a crooked smile. That makes more sense than the idea that the earth spins at a thousand kilometers an hour, and the moon shows only one face. 

I  like the three moon idea better that what I was taught in school?

Wait, how old is your wife..?

Edited December 7, 2016 by cinepro

[bcuzbcuz]

1 hour ago, cinepro said:

Wait, how old is your wife..?

Did I somehow imply she was 4 years old? I will admit that she is younger than me, but not that young. I omitted to convey a teacher to student status. I meant to show the brilliance of the 4 year old´s deductive powers, not my  creepiness.

[Jeanne]

1 hour ago, bcuzbcuz said:

Did I somehow imply she was 4 years old? I will admit that she is younger than me, but not that young. I omitted to convey a teacher to student status. I meant to show the brilliance of the 4 year old´s deductive powers, not my  creepiness.

Personally, I love the idea of learning from a 4 year old.  I used to tutor kindergarten kids and man..you can learn a lot from a four year old!!  So scientists...here is a question that was asked of me...what do caterpillars do in the dark???

[mfbukowski]

5 hours ago, bcuzbcuz said:

I agree 100%. Merely being surrounded by something like electricity or science, doesn´t mean that a person will understand it.  It is quite easy to ignore ideas that conflict with preconceptions. 

In my wife´s pre-school class, a group of 4 year olds were discussing whether the earth had two moons, one that is whole and the other that is a half. They finally agreed that there are three moons, one that is whole, one that is half and one that looks like a crooked smile. That makes more sense than the idea that the earth spins at a thousand kilometers an hour, and the moon shows only one face. 

I  like the three moon idea better that what I was taught in school?

This is actually a pretty good example of the correspondence theory and how it causes problems.  The kids are actually perfectly right in making observations and coming up with their theory- simple observation would seem to confirm their theory of the world "as it is"

But we take those observations and construct a different view of "reality" based not on simple observation but on another theory which takes into account other data not available to the kids.  The final one moon theory is actually a construction of different observations, some of which are pretty complex to comprehend at first, as you point out.

This is the basis of "social constructivism"- the idea that truth and reality as we know it is often not made up from what we directly observe but what we can construct socially as a theory which takes account for the observations of others and ultimately works better for things like trips to the moon.  We do not have to make three trips when one will do.

Edited December 8, 2016 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Jeanne said:

Personally, I love the idea of learning from a 4 year old.  I used to tutor kindergarten kids and man..you can learn a lot from a four year old!!  So scientists...here is a question that was asked of me...what do caterpillars do in the dark???

I once owned a basset hound and those dogs are kid magnets.

One little girl was petting him and she said "If a lady had ears this long, she'd be a Queen!!"

I have been contemplating that quote for probably 40 years and I still have absolutely NO CLUE where that could possibly come from......   anyone??

[Marmonboy]

6 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

All due deference, but on the sun isn't the solar wind's effect on silicates. Our sun can't produce oxygen.

So THAT'S why sand is all the same--it's from the sun!

[waveslider]

6 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

All due deference, but on the sun isn't the solar wind's effect on silicates. Our sun can't produce oxygen.

I read your post a little too quickly and didn't realize that you said Oxygen instead of Water. Actually the Sun does produce Oxygen:

http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/about-us/53-our-solar-system/the-sun/composition/200-what-happens-to-the-helium-formed-in-the-sun-beginner

[Marmonboy]

It doesn't yet, but someday it will.

[thesometimesaint]

20 hours ago, waveslider said:

I know that. I'm not defending UM by any means. But you have to admit it is pretty interesting that the sun's energy is directly turned into water, so in essence the water comes directly from the Sun, not so much from comets or any of the other hypothesis' that science has been wrong about for the last 4 centuries.

The suns energy can't be turned directly into water. It has to have something to work on. Chemically silicates are Silica and Oxygen. The moon has a little hydrogen bound into its some parts of its subsurface geography. It is not a surprise that the sun's energy can release some of trapped water.

[Jeanne]

15 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

I once owned a basset hound and those dogs are kid magnets.

One little girl was petting him and she said "If a lady had ears this long, she'd be a Queen!!"

I have been contemplating that quote for probably 40 years and I still have absolutely NO CLUE where that could possibly come from......   anyone??

No matter....what a hoot!

[bcuzbcuz]

15 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

I once owned a basset hound and those dogs are kid magnets.

One little girl was petting him and she said "If a lady had ears this long, she'd be a Queen!!"

I have been contemplating that quote for probably 40 years and I still have absolutely NO CLUE where that could possibly come from......   anyone??

[thesometimesaint]

On 12/7/2016 at 6:47 PM, waveslider said:

I read your post a little too quickly and didn't realize that you said Oxygen instead of Water. Actually the Sun does produce Oxygen:

http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/about-us/53-our-solar-system/the-sun/composition/200-what-happens-to-the-helium-formed-in-the-sun-beginner

SEE http://astronomy.stackexchange.com/questions/12381/what-happens-to-oxygen-produced-on-the-sun-or-other-stars