Pence confirms Romney under serious consideration for secretary of state

[bluebell]

15 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

Trump is the iceberg. Full speed ahead.

But the band members did not play on because they were in denial.  It was specifically their lack of denial that allowed them to see the bigger picture and make a gallant choice to use the time they had left to try to give peace and comfort to those around them instead of frantically focusing only only themselves.

[thesometimesaint]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Better to live in defending the rights of ourselves and others than to die in defending those rights. Let's see what can be accomplished by having a good man in an influential post in the executive branch.

That by definition is Denialism. Keep on sailing down that river. The Sec. of State has little to no control/influence on domestic affairs. He/she works at the discretion on the President.

Poster removed. 

[Scott Lloyd]

16 minutes ago, Calm said:

Because we need more people like the musicians of the Titanic, not less:

https://atkinsbookshelf.wordpress.com/tag/phrase-origins-titanic/

"And the band played on: to continue to do something bravely in the face of hostile or life-threatening conditions. The phrase first appears as the title to a song, “The Band Played On” written in 1895 by John Palmer. The song includes the refrain “And the band played on.” The phrase, as we know it, was redefined by the ill-fated maiden journey of the Titanic. Survivors of the ship witnessed one of the greatest acts of selflessness and courage when Wallace Hartley and his string ensemble played music on the upper deck soon after the Titanic struck the iceberg in order to calm the passengers. One of their selections, “Nearer My God to Thee” was truly prescient and for many, the last song they would ever hear.  Passengers scrambled their way to the lifeboats, rushing past the band that never wavered in its performance. Harold Bride, the ship’s junior wireless operator, recalled that the last song the musicians played was Francois Barthelemon’s “Autumn.” Eventually the mighty ship tilted and the waves swept the band into an icy tomb. Witnesses recall that Hartley’s last words were: “Gentlemen, I bid you farewell.”  Hartley’s body was recovered weeks later and was honored at a funeral with over 1,000 people attending and another 40,000 people lined up along the funeral procession."

What a wonderful analogy for what we as Latter-day Saints are called to do as the world sinks ever deeper into the abyss of wickedness.

Analogies apply in only limited respects, however. I think we do more than just provide comfort and requiem -- as the band on the Titanic did. In meaningful ways, we are providing life preservers and lifeboats.

[pogi]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

The more faithful Latter-day Saints we can have holding influential positions in government, the more it mitigates against the possibility that our people will be increasingly marginalized, given the political and social climate that has been developing over the past few years.

On the other hand, it might have the opposite effect.  The public doesn't necessarily hold political officers in high regard right now, and trust is extremely low.  With such extreme polarization and discontent with political affairs, this could be a very risky situation for Romney and the Church.  The eye of scrutiny will be heavily upon him and people may use this as an opportunity to further marginalize the church with their unpopular social positions on gay marriage, etc.  What I am trying to say is, if your goal is to be liked...stay out of politics! 

JLHPROF is right, these are the last days, and we cannot avoid prophecy.  I am not saying that we should not strive to preserve righteousness in our nation and do all that we can to preserve a positive image of the church, but I am saying that no matter how hard we strive (as we should), persecution will increase and we will become more and more hated as a people in the last days.  You are right that we should strive to mitigate this as much as possible, but I personally feel that a Mormon holding such a visible office in such a highly reactive political arena may be the beginning of the end for the relatively positive PR we have held as a church for quite a while now.  We know that the persecution will come, the question is how and why?  Could this possibly be one of a variable of triggers?    

Quote

And who knows? A stint as secretary of state might fortify Romney's political creds to the point he could take yet another stab at running for president and prevail this time

I doubt it, not with his wife's current state of health. 

Edited November 21, 2016 by pogi

[Scott Lloyd]

8 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

That by definition is Denialism. Keep on sailing down that river. The Sec. of State has little to no control/influence on domestic affairs. He/she works at the discretion on the President.

But the secretary of state has considerable influence over foreign affairs as adviser to the president, who is still seen by many as the leader of the free world. That's why some in other countries were so pissed off about the election of Trump: They feel they have a stake in the choice that we make as the U.S. electorate.

 

[Calm]

6 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

But the secretary of state has considerable influence over foreign affairs as adviser to the president, who is still seen by many as the leader of the free world. That's why some in other countries were so pissed off about the election of Trump: They feel they have a stake in the choice that we make as the U.S. electorate.

 

They have a huge stake in it given the government's choice to involve itself in other countries and even if the US had been hands off in dictating to other countries how they should be doing things as well as giving aid in humanitarian, economic, and military ways, there is still the huge impact the US economy has on the world.

[BlueDreams]

1 hour ago, Buckeye said:

Thanks to global warming we no longer need to worry about icebergs. ... 

nope....

You can go back to your regularly broadcasted apocalypse.... you're welcome!

 

With luv and inevitable doom,

BD

[Scott Lloyd]

52 minutes ago, pogi said:

On the other hand, it might have the opposite effect.  The public doesn't necessarily hold political officers in high regard right now, and trust is extremely low.  With such extreme polarization and discontent with political affairs, this could be a very risky situation for Romney and the Church.  The eye of scrutiny will be heavily upon him and people may use this as an opportunity to further marginalize the church with their unpopular social positions on gay marriage, etc.  What I am trying to say is, if your goal is to be liked...stay out of politics! 

 

 

Gainsay all you like; you can be more effective on the inside having the ear of those with power than you are on the outside pounding on the gates.

And trying "to be liked" by placating those who oppose us for our adherence to principles of truth and morality is probably not a productive means to accomplish our goals in any event. If some are trying to abridge our religious liberties, we need to have our people on the inside of the power structure so they can do what they can to prevent that from happening, whether it be in the executive, judicial or legislative branch of government.

Bear in mind that a single Supreme Court justice's vote made the difference in last year's redefinition of marriage.

Quote

JLHPROF is right, these are the last days, and we cannot avoid prophecy.  I am not saying that we should not strive to preserve righteousness in our nation and do all that we can to preserve a positive image of the church, but I am saying that no matter how hard we strive (as we should), persecution will increase and we will become more and more hated as a people in the last days.  You are right that we should strive to mitigate this as much as possible, but I personally feel that a Mormon holding such a visible office in such a highly reactive political arena may be the beginning of the end for the relatively positive PR we have held as a church for quite a while now.  We know that the persecution will come, the question is how and why.  Could this possibly be one of a variable of triggers?

JLHPROF is wrong to the extent that he advocates insularity and circle-the-wagons mentality.

Today's prophets and apostles are right in that they urge us to make our influence for good felt in the political and governmental sphere. We have to try to preserve the optimal climate for performing the work we have been called to do, which is to prepare the world for the Second Coming by inviting all to come unto Christ and be perfected in Him (and that includes the dead as well as the living, by the way).

 

Edited November 21, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[Anijen]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

This is way too apocalyptic for my taste and is sounding eerily like the preppers and hobbyists who chatter about forming tent cities out in the desert.

Are not members of the Church considered "preppers." Why the derogatory implication?

Many of us "preppers" are not fanatical. I just have followed the counsel of being prepared. When has being prepared (that is what "preppers" are) become label worthy and one that is demeaning?

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Anijen said:

Are not members of the Church considered "preppers." Why the derogatory implication?

Many of us "preppers" are not fanatical. I just have followed the counsel of being prepared. When has being prepared (that is what "preppers" are) become label worthy and one that is demeaning?

Many self-styled "preppers" go beyond the mark and advocate fanatical behavior that has been warned against recently by Church leaders (see here, for example). I think the term is  generally seen as applying to this more fanatical fringe.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[strappinglad]

I link to this video as a way to reinforce what Scott has said regarding influence. It is NOT a political speech,  even if some references connect to politics. It deserves to by widely viewed. That said, I also have worries similar to Pogi.

 

[stemelbow]

47 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

What a wonderful analogy for what we as Latter-day Saints are called to do as the world sinks ever deeper into the abyss of wickedness.

Analogies apply in only limited respects, however. I think we do more than just provide comfort and requiem -- as the band on the Titanic did. In meaningful ways, we are providing life preservers and lifeboats.

Sadly, in my experience LDS folks are as much those who contribute to the panic and commotion as anyone. 

[Jeanne]

Strappinglad, that video was very powerful.

[Anijen]

13 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Many self-styled "preppers" go beyond the mark and advocate fanatical behavior that has been warned against recently by Church leaders. I thing the term is  generally seen as applying to this more fanatical fringe.

I consider myself a prepper. I have never advocated any fanatical behavior. I took it personally and felt like the disparaging comment was uncalled for.

[Calm]

Are you okay with "doomsday prepper" being used as a label to describe the group Scott is referring to?

[Scott Lloyd]

55 minutes ago, Calm said:

They have a huge stake in it given the government's choice to involve itself in other countries and even if the US had been hands off in dictating to other countries how they should be doing things as well as giving aid in humanitarian, economic, and military ways, there is still the huge impact the US economy has on the world.

It goes both ways.

In an indirect sense, involvement by the executive branch in foreign affairs affects our domestic well-being. It pertains to fighting against and preventing global terrorism, which has a considerable domestic impact, as anyone who has flown on international or domestic commercial airline flights in recent years and had to deal with TSA security can well attest.

Furthermore, there is the matter of foreign trade, which is under the purview of the secetary of state and obviously has an impact on our domestic economy.

 

[Scott Lloyd]

31 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

I link to this video as a way to reinforce what Scott has said regarding influence. It is NOT a political speech,  even if some references connect to politics. It deserves to by widely viewed. That said, I also have worries similar to Pogi.

 

I watched a portion of this last night.

If the guy had not chosen to go into law or politics, he would have been a very effective preacher.

[Anijen]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

Are you okay with "doomsday prepper" being used as a label to describe the group Scott is referring to?

I consider Scott a very great guy. I am sure he never meant any insult or offense. I do not want to derail this fine topic so I have started another thread with this topic. I will answer your question there.

[Scott Lloyd]

35 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Sadly, in my experience LDS folks are as much those who contribute to the panic and commotion as anyone. 

I was referring to what we are called to do.

That said, I don't share your observation. I think righteous and faithful Latter-day Saints are very much a leavening influence globally.

 

[Scott Lloyd]

2 minutes ago, Anijen said:

I consider Scott a very great guy. I am sure he never meant any insult or offense. I do not want to derail this fine topic so I have started another thread with this topic. I will answer your question there.

Thank you.

And you're right in that I meant no offense.

 

[stemelbow]

6 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I was referring to what we are called to do.

That said, I don't share your observation. I think righteous and faithful Latter-day Saints are very much a leavening influence globally.

 

Fair enough.

[Calm]

11 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

It goes both ways.

In an indirect sense, involvement by the executive branch in foreign affairs affects our domestic well-being. It pertains to fighting against and preventing global terrorism, which has a considerable domestic impact, as anyone who has flown on international or domestic commercial airline flights in recent years and had to deal with TSA security can well attest.

Furthermore, there is the matter of foreign trade, which is under the purview of the secetary of state and obviously has an impact on our domestic economy.

 

It is unfortunate IMO that there are so many Americans who aren't interested in what is happening in other countries, especially our neighbors and high trade partners and those we are giving much aid to, especially military, and the intimate interaction is only registered as frustration at long lines at airports and such.

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Today's prophets and apostles are right in that they urge us to make our influence for good felt in the political and governmental sphere. We have to try to preserve the optimal climate for performing the work we have been called to do, which is to prepare the world for the Second Coming by inviting all to come unto Christ and be perfected in Him (and that includes the dead as well as the living, by the way).

And I don't disagree with that.  I personally hope he is offered and accepts the position.  All I am saying is that if your concern is about our people being "marginalized", than this may hasten rather then delay or mitigate that effect.  I am not saying it will happen, but you can't deny the possibility.   

[BlueDreams]

4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Some here may wonder why I am so interested in the possibility that a member of the Church might become a part of the U.S. president's cabinet. Here is the broader picture: The more faithful Latter-day Saints we can have holding influential positions in government, the more it mitigates against the possibility that our people will be increasingly marginalized, given the political and social climate that has been developing over the past few years.

Furthermore, secretary of state might be the most influential cabinet post ever held by a member of the Church, more than secretary of agriculture (Ezra Taft Benson), secretary of HUD (George Romney), secretary of education (T.H. Bell), secretary of the treasury (David M. Kennedy) and secretary of Health and Human Services (Michael O. Leavitt).

And who knows? A stint as secretary of state might fortify Romney's political creds to the point he could take yet another stab at running for president and prevail this time.

A good chunk of this is dependent  on how Romney's role in said office is viewed by the general public as well as how Trump's presidency in general  is viewed at the end of this. Though, as Daniel pointed out, this is a better pick than the others were hearing being floated/chosen, it doesn't garuntee a better political climate for Mormons outright. 

 

With luv, 

BD 

[Scott Lloyd]

12 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

A good chunk of this is dependent  on how Romney's role in said office is viewed by the general public as well as how Trump's presidency in general  is viewed at the end of this. Though, as Daniel pointed out, this is a better pick than the others were hearing being floated/chosen, it doesn't garuntee a better political climate for Mormons outright. 

 

Point well taken.

But at the end of the day, we need to recognize that having detractors is pretty much part of the package one signs up for when entering the rough-and-tumble of politics, and that making enemies does not necessarily mean one has not been successful or has not done good work. I think we would hamstring ourselves as a people if all good Church members refused to run for political office because they were too squeamish about drawing fire and criticism.

As for guaranteeing a better political climate for Mormons, I'm tempted to settle at this point in time for curbing the worsening of the political climate. But hope springs eternal, and I do hope things get better.

 

Edited November 22, 2016 by Scott Lloyd