Pence confirms Romney under serious consideration for secretary of state

[Scott Lloyd]

My Trump-considers-Romney thread got shut down. I presume that's because it had morphed into a let's-bash/defend-Trump spectacle. That's not what i had intended for it.

This developing news -- Vice President-elect Pence goes on CBS's "Face the Nation" Sunday where he confirms that Romney is indeed still under consideration following Saturday's meeting with Trump -- is noteworthy enough to re-open the discussion with hopes that we can confine it to comments about the possibility of another prominent Mormon becoming part of the the U.S. presidential administration and the president being a man with whom he had had a bitter political divide during the campaign.

Edited to add:

Here's a direct quote from the transcript of that "Face the Nation" interview with Pence:

Quote

****ERSON: And Mitt Romney as a possible secretary of state, is that right?

PENCE: That’s absolutely right, John.

And I know the president-elect was very grateful that Governor Mitt Romney came here to New Jersey yesterday. We spent the better part of an hour together with him. And then I know that the two of them actually had some private time together.

I would tell you that it was not only a cordial meeting, but also it was a very substantive meeting. And I can say that Governor Romney is under active and serious consideration to serve as secretary of state of the United States.

 

Edited November 21, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[boblloyd91]

At the risk of getting political, I must say I hope he is made Secretary of State instead of someone else I heard is being considered...John Bolton who is always saying we need to invade Iran right now.

[Scott Lloyd]

Some here may wonder why I am so interested in the possibility that a member of the Church might become a part of the U.S. president's cabinet. Here is the broader picture: The more faithful Latter-day Saints we can have holding influential positions in government, the more it mitigates against the possibility that our people will be increasingly marginalized, given the political and social climate that has been developing over the past few years.

Furthermore, secretary of state might be the most influential cabinet post ever held by a member of the Church, more than secretary of agriculture (Ezra Taft Benson), secretary of HUD (George Romney), secretary of education (T.H. Bell), secretary of the treasury (David M. Kennedy) and secretary of Health and Human Services (Michael O. Leavitt).

And who knows? A stint as secretary of state might fortify Romney's political creds to the point he could take yet another stab at running for president and prevail this time.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[JLHPROF]

At the risk of being apolitical I hope that D&C 87:6 will put an end to all the politicizing and division and bring us all together.

• And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn; and with famine, and plague, and earthquake, and the thunder of heaven, and the fierce and vivid lightning also, shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full end of all nations;

Makes me long for the days when the Church goals was "Go ye out from among the nations, even from Babylon, from the midst of wickedness, which is spiritual Babylon."
(D&C 133:14)

Does it really matter which evil candidate gets us to this destination?  Trump or Clinton - either would have gotten us there.

[thesometimesaint]

16 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Some here may wonder why I am so interested in the possibility that a member of the Church might become a part of the U.S. president's cabinet. Here is the broader picture: The more faithful Latter-day saints we can have holding influential positions in government, the more it mitigates against the possibility that our people will be increasingly marginalized, given the political and social climate that has been developing over the past few years.

Furthermore, secretary of state might be the most influential cabinet post ever held by a member of the Church, more than secretary of agriculture (Ezra Taft Benson), secretary of HUD (George Romney), secretary of education (T.H. Bell), secretary of the treasury (David M. Kennedy) and secretary of Health and Human Services (Michael O. Leavitt).

And who knows? A stint as secretary of state might fortify Romney's political creds to the point he could take yet another stab at running for president and prevail this time.

Given Trumps statements about Muslims consider that throughout history there have been many leaders who came to power that others thought they could control. History shows that it didn't happen.

" I am bold to declare before Heaven that I am just as ready to die in defending the rights of a Presbyterian, a Baptist, or a good man of any other denomination; for the same principle which would trample upon the rights of the Latter-day Saints would trample upon the rights of the Roman Catholics, or of any other denomination who may be unpopular and too weak to defend themselves".

Joseph Smith

Edited November 21, 2016 by thesometimesaint

[Scott Lloyd]

12 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

At the risk of being apolitical I hope that D&C 87:6 will put an end to all the politicizing and division and bring us all together.

• And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn; and with famine, and plague, and earthquake, and the thunder of heaven, and the fierce and vivid lightning also, shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full end of all nations;

Makes me long for the days when the Church goals was "Go ye out from among the nations, even from Babylon, from the midst of wickedness, which is spiritual Babylon."
(D&C 133:14)

Does it really matter which evil candidate gets us to this destination?  Trump or Clinton - either would have gotten us there.

This is way too apocalyptic for my taste and is sounding eerily like the preppers and hobbyists who chatter about forming tent cities out in the desert.

There is still good reason to work within the system insofar as we can. And having able men and women among our people serving in government is one way to accomplish that.

For one thing, we can do what is within our power to safeguard the Constitutional guarantee of religious liberty. We can follow the example of the Brethren in that respect.

 

[Scott Lloyd]

7 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

Given Trumps statements about Muslims consider that throughout history there have been many leaders who came to power that others thought they could control. History shows that it didn't happen.

" I am bold to declare before Heaven that I am just as ready to die in defending the rights of a Presbyterian, a Baptist, or a good man of any other denomination; for the same principle which would trample upon the rights of the Latter-day Saints would trample upon the rights of the Roman Catholics, or of any other denomination who may be unpopular and too weak to defend themselves".

Joseph Smith

Better to live in defending the rights of ourselves and others than to die in defending those rights. Let's see what can be accomplished by having a good man in an influential post in the executive branch.

[Daniel2]

9 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Posted Saturday at 05:16 PM · Report post

What's your source that it's not going to happen? You posted this yesterday. A CNN report following the meeting this morning between the two men said nobody confirmed or denied anything. 

 

EDIT:  OK, I'm an idiot! LOL... I had confused Secretary of State with Attorney General.  My mistake!!!  So, the below isn't applicable.

It appears the first VP Debate won't be the last time that there's ongoing confusion between the respective positions taken between Pence and his running mate.  From Fortune Magazine three days ago:

Quote

Donald Trump Has Made His Pick for Attorney General

President-elect Donald Trump is moving ahead with filling key posts in his administration, picking Alabama Sen. Jeff Sessions for the job of attorney general and Rep. Mike Pompeo as head of the CIA.

The announcements came on the heels of Trump’s decision to tap former military intelligence chief Michael Flynn as national security adviser. A Trump official did not say whether Sessions or Flynn had accepted the job, leaving open the possibility that those two arrangements were not finalized.

Sessions and Pompeo would both require Senate confirmation before assuming their designated roles; Flynn would not.

There could be some hurdles for Sessions, even with Republicans in control of the chamber. When Sessions was nominated to be a federal judge in 1986, he was dogged by racist comments he was accused of making while serving as U.S. attorney in Alabama.

“Mr. Sessions is a throwback to a shameful era, which I know both black and white Americans thought was in our past,” the late Massachusetts Democrat, Sen. Edward Kennedy, said during the 1986 confirmation hearing. “It is inconceivable to me that a person of this attitude is qualified to be a U.S. attorney, let alone a U.S. federal judge.”

During the hearing, a former assistant U.S. attorney, Thomas Figures, who is black, said Sessions referred to him as “boy,” and told him to be careful what he said to “white folks.” Sessions said he never called Figures “boy,” but Kennedy produced a letter from an organization of black lawyers that said Figures made the allegation about Sessions to the organization’s investigators at least twice.

Sessions told the committee that he told Figures to be careful what he said to “folks.”

Sessions later withdrew from consideration, though he went on to become state attorney general and won election to the Senate in 1996.

Pompeo is a conservative Republican and a fierce critic of President Barack Obama’s nuclear deal with Iran.

Flynn was a fierce critic of President Barack Obama’s military and foreign policy long before he began advising Trump on national security issues during the presidential campaign. While the position of national security adviser doesn’t require Senate confirmation, Flynn would work in the West Wing and have frequent access to the president.

Flynn, who turns 58 next month, had built a reputation as an astute intelligence professional and straight talker when he became the director of the Defense Intelligence Agency in 2012. After retiring two years later, he made clear he took issue with the Obama administration’s approach to global affairs and fighting Islamic State militants.

Flynn has called for Washington to work more closely with Moscow, echoing similar statements from Trump. But his warmth toward Russia has worried some national security experts.

Flynn traveled last year to Moscow, where he joined Russian President Vladimir Putin and other officials in a celebration of RT, a television channel funded by the Russian government. He later explained that he had been paid for taking part in the event, but brushed aside concerns that he was aiding a Russian propaganda effort.

Trump is a foreign policy novice and his early moves on national security are being closely watched both in the U.S. and overseas. He’s said to be considering a range of officials with varying degrees of experience to lead the State Department and Pentagon.

Trump has also consulted with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger and sat down with South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley, a potential contender to lead the State Department.

In a separate gesture of reconciliation with establishment Republicans, Trump planned to meet with 2012 Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney, who lambasted Trump as a “con man” and a “fraud” in a stinging speech in March. Trump responded by repeatedly referring to Romney as a “loser.”

The two began mending fences after Trump’s victory when Romney called with congratulations. They are to meet this weekend, a transition official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because he wasn’t authorized to discuss Trump’s schedule publicly. Campaign manager Kellyanne Conway said they were still “working on” the meeting.

Trump’s actions Thursday aimed to show that he could soften his rhetoric, offer pragmatism in the White House and reaffirm longstanding American alliances. Since his stunning victory over Hillary Clinton last week, Trump has spoken with Russian President Vladimir Putin, British Prime Minister Theresa May and nearly three dozen other world leaders by telephone.

Ron Dermer, Israel’s ambassador to the United States, also visited the Trump Tower and called the billionaire businessman “a true friend of Israel.” He specifically cited as another “friend” Trump campaign CEO Steve Bannon, whose selection as a top White House adviser has created a backlash among Democrats. Bannon’s news website has peddled conspiracy theories, white nationalism and anti-Semitism.

“We look forward to working with the Trump administration, with all the members of the Trump administration, including Steve Bannon, in making the U.S.-Israel alliance stronger than ever,” Dermer said.

Trump, a reality television star, business mogul and political newcomer, also rolled out new teams that will interact with the State Department, Pentagon, Justice Department and other national security agencies as part of the government transition before his Jan. 20 inauguration.

This story has been updated with detail throughout.

It appears there's still ongoing consideration given to the selection process, as Fortune itself also mentions Pence's comments about Romney still being under consideration in a subsequent article.

Donald Trump Keeps Cabinet Picks Under Wraps

For the record and as I mentioned in my previous post, I'm very much hoping that Pence is right on this one and that Romney is chosen for the position, instead of Trump's reported pick, and that Jeff Sessions' consideration has been dropped.

ALSO added during EDIT:  I'm even MORE hopeful that Romney gets the Sec of State position, especially if Jeff Sessions IS confirmed as Attorney General... Romney would help provide some much-needed balance to an increasingly-concerning list of more alt-right radical picks for other positions (a.k.a. Sessions, as mentioned above).

 

Edited November 21, 2016 by Daniel2

[JLHPROF]

19 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

This is way too apocalyptic for my taste and is sounding eerily like the preppers and hobbyists who chatter about forming tent cities out in the desert.

There is still good reason to work within the system insofar as we can. And having able men and women among our people serving in government is one way to accomplish that.

For one thing, we can do what is within our power to safeguard the Constitutional guarantee of religious liberty. We can follow the example of the Brethren in that respect.

But the LDS religion IS an apocalyptic/millennialist religion.  What do we think "Latter Day" refers to?
I'm not talking about crazy sandwich board men here.  Talking about the words of God's authorized prophets.

I agree that fleeing into the desert isn't the right course.    3 Nephi 20 42 For ye shall not go out with haste nor go by flight; for the Lord will go before you, and the God of Israel shall be your rearward.
We should be led out by priesthood authority being guided by the Lord.

But personally I don't see how much more wicked the world can become.  I kind of chuckle when I read the statements of the prophets from the early 1900s about how wicked the world was.
And why would we have any reason to doubt that our current government and society could be the one to trigger the end of all nations?

Edited November 21, 2016 by JLHPROF

[bluebell]

4 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

But the LDS religion IS an apocalyptic/millennialist religion.  What do we think "Latter Day" refers to?
I'm not talking about crazy sandwich board men here.  Talking about the words of God's authorized prophets.

I agree that fleeing into the desert isn't the right course.    3 Nephi 20 42 For ye shall not go out with haste nor go by flight; for the Lord will go before you, and the God of Israel shall be your rearward.
We should be led out by priesthood authority being guided by the Lord.

But personally I don't see how much more wicked the world can become.  I kind of chuckle when I read the statements of the prophets from the early 1900s about how wicked the world was.
And why would we have any reason to doubt that our current government and society could be the one to trigger the end of all nations?

How do we judge the relative wickedness of the world?  

Rome was about as wicked as you could get in most respects (probably more wicked than we currently are in my opinion), for example, and in some ways parts of the world are more righteous than they've ever been (charity, service, and environmental responsibility is more important to people then they have been historically-not to mention the spread of righteous religious doctrine to every continent).  

[Scott Lloyd]

21 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

But the LDS religion IS an apocalyptic/millennialist religion.  What do we think "Latter Day" refers to?
 

"Latter-day" refers largely to our responsibility to prepare for the Second Coming by inviting all to come unto Christ and be perfected in Him. We have a lot of work left to do in that respect. We help maintain a suitable climate for doing that work by exercising our influence in the governmental sphere.

Quote

I agree that fleeing into the desert isn't the right course.    3 Nephi 20 42 For ye shall not go out with haste nor go by flight; for the Lord will go before you, and the God of Israel shall be your rearward.
 

Of course it isn't. Insularity and circle-the-wagons mentality are the diametric opposite of what we ought to be doing.

Quote

We should be led out by priesthood authority being guided by the Lord.

Currently, priesthood authority as guided by the Lord is instructing us to make our influence for good felt in the political realm.

 

Edited November 21, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

34 minutes ago, Daniel2 said:

EDIT:  OK, I'm an idiot! LOL... I had confused Secretary of State with Attorney General.  My mistake!!!  So, the below isn't applicable.

It appears the first VP Debate won't be the last time that there's ongoing confusion between the respective positions taken between Pence and his running mate.  From Fortune Magazine three days ago:

It appears there's still ongoing consideration given to the selection process, as Fortune itself also mentions Pence's comments about Romney still being under consideration in a subsequent article.

Donald Trump Keeps Cabinet Picks Under Wraps

For the record and as I mentioned in my previous post, I'm very much hoping that Pence is right on this one and that Romney is chosen for the position, instead of Trump's reported pick, and that Jeff Sessions' consideration has been dropped.

ALSO added during EDIT:  I'm even MORE hopeful that Romney gets the Sec of State position, especially if Jeff Sessions IS confirmed as Attorney General... Romney would help provide some much-needed balance to an increasingly-concerning list of more alt-right radical picks for other positions (a.k.a. Sessions, as mentioned above).

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[thesometimesaint]

When the Titanic hit that iceberg the band played on.

[Buckeye]

26 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

When the Titanic hit that iceberg the band played on.

Thanks to global warming we no longer need to worry about icebergs. ... 

[Scott Lloyd]

32 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

When the Titanic hit that iceberg the band played on.

 

5 minutes ago, Buckeye said:

Thanks to global warming we no longer need to worry about icebergs. ... 

You two are conspiring to get my thread shut down again. Stop it.

 

[Calm]

37 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

When the Titanic hit that iceberg the band played on.

And this means what to you?  Heroism or delusion?

(just trying to get your point, no need to argue it as that will take Scott's thread off course, just confirm whether you see it as a heroic act or delusional)

Edited November 21, 2016 by Calm

[bluebell]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

And this means what to you?

 

I think TSS sees Trump as the iceberg but maybe i'm misunderstanding him.

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

How do we judge the relative wickedness of the world?  

Rome was about as wicked as you could get in most respects (probably more wicked than we currently are in my opinion), for example, and in some ways parts of the world are more righteous than they've ever been (charity, service, and environmental responsibility is more important to people then they have been historically-not to mention the spread of righteous religious doctrine to every continent).  

I would argue that we can judge the world not by the sins that are committed but by the sins that are accepted and called good.

Many things that happened in the societies like  Rome (and Hitler's Germany) caused previous generations to be horrified but are now accepted by much of "civilized" society.
We may not have circuses and gladiators and concentration camps, but even in our society we call plenty of evil good on a daily basis.

Edited November 21, 2016 by JLHPROF

[smac97]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Furthermore, secretary of state might be the most influential cabinet post ever held by a member of the Church, more than secretary of agriculture (Ezra Taft Benson), secretary of HUD (George Romney), secretary of education (T.H. Bell), secretary of the treasury (David M. Kennedy) and secretary of Health and Human Services (Michael O. Leavitt).

And let's not forget Brent Scowcroft, who "was the United States National Security Advisor under U.S. Presidents Gerald Ford and George H. W. Bush. He also served as Military Assistant to President Richard Nixon and as Deputy Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs in the Nixon and Ford administrations. He served as Chairman of the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board under President George W. Bush from 2001 to 2005 and assisted President Barack Obama in choosing his national security team."

The Nat'l Scty Advisor is not a cabinet position, but still quite influential.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I think TSS sees Trump as the iceberg but maybe i'm misunderstanding him.

I don't care about what he thinks is the iceberg, I am wondering what he means by pointing out the band was playing while the tragedy occurred.

Some use the cliche to suggest hiding one's head in the sand behaviour.  I want to know if that was his intent.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Calm

[thesometimesaint]

5 minutes ago, Calm said:

And this means what to you?  Heroism or delusion?

(just trying to get your point, no need to argue it as that will take Scott's thread off course, just confirm whether you see it as a heroic act or delusional)

Denialism.

SEE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denialism

[thesometimesaint]

6 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I think TSS sees Trump as the iceberg but maybe i'm misunderstanding him.

Trump is the iceberg. Full speed ahead.

[Calm]

7 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

Denialism.

SEE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denialism

This is slandering heroic men who willingly gave their lives in an effort to help save others.  They continued to play knowing they were giving their lives, in full knowledge of what was happening in hopes of creating a less fearful, more effective lifesaving effort for others. We should be following their example of promoting calm and effectiveness in the face of disaster, not using them as a cliched, finger pointing dismissal.  You should be embarrassed by your slander.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musicians_of_the_RMS_Titanic

"After the Titanic hit an iceberg and began to sink, Hartley and his fellow band members started playing music to help keep the passengers calm as the crew loaded the lifeboats. Many of the survivors said that Hartley and the band continued to play until the very end. One second class passenger said:

Many brave things were done that night, but none were more brave than those done by men playing minute after minute as the ship settled quietly lower and lower in the sea. The music they played served alike as their own immortal requiem and their right to be recalled on the scrolls of undying fame.[3]"

Sorry, Scott, for going off topic, but these men deserve recognition as the heros they were, not to be used as cliched accusations.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Calm

[bluebell]

12 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

I would argue that we can judge the world not by the sins that are committed but by the sins that are accepted and called good.

Many things that happened in the societies like  Rome (and Hitler's Germany) caused previous generations to be horrified but are now accepted by much of "civilized" society.
We may not have circuses and gladiators and concentrations camps, but even in our society we call plenty of evil good on a daily basis.

A lot of it is perspective though.

For women, children, and minorities (the innocents and politically weak members of society) the world is a more charitable and just place than it ever has been (in some parts-others are still back in the stone age in that regard).

I agree that some sins are becoming more accepted.  Others are becoming less accepted though.   Because of that, i don't know how to gauge how wicked the world is as a whole.

[Calm]

Because we need more people like the musicians of the Titanic, not less:

https://atkinsbookshelf.wordpress.com/tag/phrase-origins-titanic/

"And the band played on: to continue to do something bravely in the face of hostile or life-threatening conditions. The phrase first appears as the title to a song, “The Band Played On” written in 1895 by John Palmer. The song includes the refrain “And the band played on.” The phrase, as we know it, was redefined by the ill-fated maiden journey of the Titanic. Survivors of the ship witnessed one of the greatest acts of selflessness and courage when Wallace Hartley and his string ensemble played music on the upper deck soon after the Titanic struck the iceberg in order to calm the passengers. One of their selections, “Nearer My God to Thee” was truly prescient and for many, the last song they would ever hear.  Passengers scrambled their way to the lifeboats, rushing past the band that never wavered in its performance. Harold Bride, the ship’s junior wireless operator, recalled that the last song the musicians played was Francois Barthelemon’s “Autumn.” Eventually the mighty ship tilted and the waves swept the band into an icy tomb. Witnesses recall that Hartley’s last words were: “Gentlemen, I bid you farewell.”  Hartley’s body was recovered weeks later and was honored at a funeral with over 1,000 people attending and another 40,000 people lined up along the funeral procession."

Edited November 21, 2016 by Calm