Guitar in the chapel

[rongo]

I have a wonderful music chair who is kind of overbearing and heavy-handed. She is convinced that guitar in any capacity is strictly forbidden in the chapel, and I told her that there is nothing in the handbooks along these lines (as long as it is reverent and appropriate, of course). She said that this is in the music handbook, or something like that. 

Can anyone set me straight on this? With sources and actual language would be helpful. 

Thanks!

[Gray]

4 minutes ago, rongo said:

I have a wonderful music chair who is kind of overbearing and heavy-handed. She is convinced that guitar in any capacity is strictly forbidden in the chapel, and I told her that there is nothing in the handbooks along these lines (as long as it is reverent and appropriate, of course). She said that this is in the music handbook, or something like that. 

Can anyone set me straight on this? With sources and actual language would be helpful. 

Thanks!

It used to be in the rule book, but there is no longer any policy against guitars. 

[rongo]

2 minutes ago, Gray said:

It used to be in the rule book, but there is no longer any policy against guitars. 

I know that it isn't now. I think that her understanding stems from memory of past policy. 

Do we know how long ago the policy was changed to omit a proscription on guitar?

[Gray]

1 minute ago, rongo said:

I know that it isn't now. I think that her understanding stems from memory of past policy. 

Do we know how long ago the policy was changed to omit a proscription on guitar?

I know it existed for sure in the 90s, and I think at least a good part of the 00s. I want to say that the policy was changed at least 6 or 7 years ago, but that's going off my foggy memory. 

[Nevo]

9 minutes ago, rongo said:

Can anyone set me straight on this? With sources and actual language would be helpful. 

Here is a FAQ from LDS.org:

Quote

May we use classical music for prelude and postlude music in sacrament meetings?
“In addition [to the hymns], other appropriate selections may be used for prelude and postlude music, choir music, and special musical presentations. … Much sacred music that is suitable for concerts and recitals is not appropriate for a Latter-day Saint worship service” (Handbook 2, 14.4.2).

May the guitar be used in sacrament meeting?
“Organs and pianos, or their electronic equivalents, are the standard instruments used in Church meetings. If other instruments are used, their use should be in keeping with the spirit of the meeting” (Handbook 2, 14.4.2).

May brass instruments be used in sacrament meeting?
“Instruments with a prominent or less worshipful sound, such as most brass and percussion, are not appropriate for sacrament meeting” (Handbook 2, 14.4.2). “Music that is carefully selected and properly presented can greatly enhance the spirit of worship” (Handbook 2, 14.4).

 

[rongo]

That would be the 2010 CHI, the most current iteration. 

Anyone have access to the music handbook? I assume that there isn't anything in it beyond the CHI.

[Calm]

Are there music handbooks anymore?  Once everything was online, I understand the individual calling booklets were discontinued, but I could be wrong.

As far as I can tell, everything refers to Handbook 2 or nothing at all.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Calm

[Rain]

Lol. I was googling to find it and find This has been discussed here before in 2013, but no reference was found.

 

ETA So far I'm finding that it hasn't been banned as far back as 2008, now 2002. Though there are SPs who have banned them in their stake.  Gotta do something else now, but no rule so far. 

Edited November 14, 2016 by Rain

[hagoth7]

22 minutes ago, Nevo said:

Here is a FAQ from LDS.org:

 

What of sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal? Especially when accompanied by something more substantial?

 

[Jeanne]

39 minutes ago, rongo said:

I have a wonderful music chair who is kind of overbearing and heavy-handed. She is convinced that guitar in any capacity is strictly forbidden in the chapel, and I told her that there is nothing in the handbooks along these lines (as long as it is reverent and appropriate, of course). She said that this is in the music handbook, or something like that. 

Can anyone set me straight on this? With sources and actual language would be helpful. 

Thanks!

Oh..that could not be true!  Many times my family and I sang in church with all of our instruments.  Guitar, mandolin and bass fiddle..every now and again we would add the piano.  My brother still sings with the guitar at everyone's funerals. This is in two different stakes with multiple bishops for all those years.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Jeanne

[ksfisher]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

That would be the 2010 CHI, the most current iteration. 

Anyone have access to the music handbook? I assume that there isn't anything in it beyond the CHI.

Handbook 2 is the most current.  It would take precedence over any previously issued instruction. 

The first sentance from 14.2.1 would also seem to have application:

"The bishop and his counselors oversee ward music."

[rpn]

I would see a material difference between an acoustical guitar and an electric guitar.

Why don't you show her the lds.org link, and then tell her that unless she can find something current which you haven't seen, acoustic guitars are not forbidden.

Edited November 15, 2016 by rpn

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Are there music handbooks anymore?  Once everything was online, I understand the individual calling booklets were discontinued, but I could be wrong.

As far as I can tell, everything refers to Handbook 2 or nothing at all.

If I recall correctly, Handbook 2 did supercede the Music Handbook and other such handbooks. 

[Scott Lloyd]

32 minutes ago, rpn said:

I would see a material difference between an acoustical guitar and an electric guitar.

Why don't you show her the lds.org link, and then tell her that unless she can find something current which you haven't seen, acoustic guitars are not forbidden.

Not all music played on acoustic guitar would be appropriate for worship services. 

For example, I'm learning how to play the opening Chuck Berry riff to "Johnny B. Goode" on my acoustic. 

[UtahTexan]

I often sing songs I have written as special music during Sacrament.......I use a guitar

[Calm]

21 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

If I recall correctly, Handbook 2 did supercede the Music Handbook and other such handbooks. 

In the past, the individual handbooks were often just sections of Handbook 2.  As a ward librarian, I had all of them collected into one massive notebook and spent a number of Wednesday evenings in the library reading (the idea was teachers would come then to get stuff for Sunday, but no one ever did).  I can't remember the music specifically, but I probably have an old catalog somewhere I could check.

[VideoGameJunkie]

I played the trumpet in sacrament meeting a couple of times for the Christmas program for the song Come all ye Faithful.

[Jeanne]

22 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Not all music played on acoustic guitar would be appropriate for worship services. 

For example, I'm learning how to play the opening Chuck Berry riff to "Johnny B. Goode" on my acoustic. 

My oldest brother wanted to do Wipeout!!

[Bernard Gui]

I have played violin and viola in orchestras for the services of a number of local congregations....not LDS.

One of the most memorable was for a Korean Presbyterian church. We performed parts of a Mozart mass.

The warm up group was their in-house praise band. During their opening the young people in the congregation were grooving out,

but the older members just stared gloomily at the floor. I hope and pray we do not go the route of the praise band.

Some things that would be great in a music program, fireside, concert, recital, or jam session just aren't right for sacrament meeting.

[Marmonboy]

3 hours ago, hagoth7 said:

What of sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal? Especially when accompanied by something more substantial?

 

Doesn't that generally come from the pulpit? (j/k-don't ban me!)

[Scott Lloyd]

6 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

I played the trumpet in sacrament meeting a couple of times for the Christmas program for the song Come all ye Faithful.

I love arrangements involving brass instruments for sacred literature, as for example what the Orchestra at Temple Square does with the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.

But what you did for the sacrament meeting program was bending the rules a bit.

Just sayin'.

 

Edited November 15, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

6 hours ago, Jeanne said:

My oldest brother wanted to do Wipeout!!

The guitar parts for "Wipeout!" (rhythm and lead) are easy. It's the drum part that tests your mettle.

 

You really need an electric guitar for "Johnny B. Goode."

I have an electric guitar and an amp. But my family won't stand for my playing them. I can barely get them to tolerate my acoustic.

Not that I'm a terrible player. They just don't like my music.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

6 hours ago, Calm said:

In the past, the individual handbooks were often just sections of Handbook 2.  As a ward librarian, I had all of them collected into one massive notebook and spent a number of Wednesday evenings in the library reading (the idea was teachers would come then to get stuff for Sunday, but no one ever did).  I can't remember the music specifically, but I probably have an old catalog somewhere I could check.

I rather clearly remember the Music Handbook and that its content was condensed for inclusion in Handbook 2 prior to it being discontinued.

There is a music conducting course published by the Church, however, that is still in circulation. As a ward choir director and sacrament meeting music director, I find it quite useful.

The online version of this course is even better, as it is interactive.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

6 hours ago, UtahTexan said:

I often sing songs I have written as special music during Sacrament.......I use a guitar

Good for you.

As ward choir director, I do my own arranging quite frequently and even composed a song for one occasion.

[Scott Lloyd]

16 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

I have played violin and viola in orchestras for the services of a number of local congregations....not LDS.

One of the most memorable was for a Korean Presbyterian church. We performed parts of a Mozart mass.

The warm up group was their in-house praise band. During their opening the young people in the congregation were grooving out,

but the older members just stared gloomily at the floor. I hope and pray we do not go the route of the praise band.

Some things that would be great in a music program, fireside, concert, recital, or jam session just aren't right for sacrament meeting.

There is a lot of good worship music from outside the LDS tradition. Much of it would be very appropriate for performance in LDS services. A lot of it can be acquired for free on line.

For our sacrament meeting this Sunday, going into Thanksgiving week, I have my ward choir singing "We Plow the Fields and Scatter." It is an older hymn, a translation from a German song, with a pleasing melody and chord sequence. The words are appropriate too. With the English translation I found online, I only had to change a few to fit the LDS milieu. (Checking just now, I found an alternate English translation I could have used without changing anything.)

I have combined it with "Father, Thy Children to Thee Now Raise," from our own hymnbook for a Thanksgiving medley. I transposed it up a half-step (you can easily do that these days on the Church's music website) to make it easier to modulate from that into the key signature of "We Plow the Fields and Scatter."

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2016 by Scott Lloyd