Guitar in the chapel

[Scott Lloyd]

10 hours ago, rongo said:

I have a wonderful music chair who is kind of overbearing and heavy-handed. She is convinced that guitar in any capacity is strictly forbidden in the chapel, and I told her that there is nothing in the handbooks along these lines (as long as it is reverent and appropriate, of course). She said that this is in the music handbook, or something like that. 

Can anyone set me straight on this? With sources and actual language would be helpful. 

Thanks!

While there is no longer a Church Music Handbook (just a section in Handbook 2) there is a Church Music website with which you and your ward music chairman ought to be acquainted if you are not already. For "Guidelines" it links back to Handbook 2.

 

[Buckeye]

I agree with other comments about CHI 2 superseding prior instructions. While my ward has not had a guitar musical number in sacrament meeting, we routinely have numbers that include violins, cellos, bassoons, flutes and clarinets.

[Gray]

2 hours ago, Buckeye said:

I agree with other comments about CHI 2 superseding prior instructions. While my ward has not had a guitar musical number in sacrament meeting, we routinely have numbers that include violins, cellos, bassoons, flutes and clarinets.

I've played guitar a few times in sacrament since the rules were changed, and so have a couple of other guys in my ward. 

[HappyJackWagon]

I've had these kinds of discussions before but I have to admit I find it rather pharisaical. Are we so concerned about what a handbook says that we cannot use our best judgment? Is God going to strike Rongo down for allowing tasteful guitar in Sacrament Meeting? What about a trumpet or saxophone done tastefully with the right music at Christmas? I think there's a lesson to be learned about a church tendency of upholding pharisaical culture.

[smac97]

4 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I've had these kinds of discussions before but I have to admit I find it rather pharisaical. Are we so concerned about what a handbook says that we cannot use our best judgment?

I don't understand.  Doesn't the handbook pretty much allow for "our best judgment" ("If other instruments are used, their use should be in keeping with the spirit of the meeting”)?

4 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Is God going to strike Rongo down for allowing tasteful guitar in Sacrament Meeting?

I'm not sure snide hyperbole is necessary or helpful to the discussion.

4 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

What about a trumpet or saxophone done tastefully with the right music at Christmas?

“Instruments with a prominent or less worshipful sound, such as most brass and percussion, are not appropriate for sacrament meeting."

That sounds rather reasonable.

4 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I think there's a lesson to be learned about a church tendency of upholding pharisaical culture.

Good grief.  The Church has promulgated a loosened-up-but-still-somewhat-constrained set of guidelines for music that is eminently reasonable, and you not only find fault with it, you publicly denigrate and accuse the Church ("pharisaical: practicing or advocating strict observance of external forms and ceremonies of religion or conduct without regard to the spirit; self-righteous; hypocritical").

It sure would be nice to see some measure of tolerance for diversity of views on such things.  Instead, we get faultfinding, inflammatory rhetoric and vicious slurs.  That is the lesson we are learning from you.

-Smac

[HappyJackWagon]

9 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I don't understand.  Doesn't the handbook pretty much allow for "our best judgment" ("If other instruments are used, their use should be in keeping with the spirit of the meeting”)?

Yes. That's a change and that's a really good thing. Yet we see how many members, like the music chair, are conditioned to a pharisaical bent.

I'm not sure snide hyperbole is necessary or helpful to the discussion.

Lighten up a little. Smile. It's going to be ok.   Come on, admit it. Isn't it a little bit absurd to fret over what type of instrument may be played in a sacrament meeting as is happening in this thread?

“Instruments with a prominent or less worshipful sound, such as most brass and percussion, are not appropriate for sacrament meeting."

That sounds rather reasonable.

Could you please define for me what a "worshipful sound" sounds is and what constitutes an non-worshipful sound? And why? Could you share some doctrinal or scriptural reasons why some instruments make sounds that are not as worshipful as others.

Good grief.  The Church has promulgated a loosened-up-but-still-somewhat-constrained set of guidelines for music that is eminently reasonable, and you not only find fault with it, you publicly denigrate and accuse the Church ("pharisaical: practicing or advocating strict observance of external forms and ceremonies of religion or conduct without regard to the spirit; self-righteous; hypocritical").

Actually, in this case I was referring to the "lower c church" made up of individuals of a pharisaical bent. And lets be honest, they did learn that somewhere...like past handbooks.

It sure would be nice to see some measure of tolerance for diversity of views on such things.  Instead, we get faultfinding, inflammatory rhetoric and vicious slurs.  That is the lesson we are learning from you.

The irony of calling for diversity and tolerance of views while ripping on mine   IMO the church has created a culture of extreme rule keeping. They may have loosened up on this one...for now...but that doesn't mean they are totally innocent of perpetuating a pharisaical culture.

-Smac

 

[pogi]

What exactly is a "less worshipful sound"?  As in:

Quote

Instruments with a prominent or less worshipful sound, such as most brass and percussion, are not appropriate for sacrament meeting

I am of the personal opinion that the natural timbre of any instrument can evoke worship when done correctly.  Doesn't the organ have a "prominent sound"?  It is interesting to me that brass and percussion are specifically mentioned as potentially non-worshipful instruments, yet God commanded David to use the cymbal, tambourine, and horn for use in Levite worship (Psa 150).  We obviously don't know what those instruments might have been like in David's time, but they are clearly percussive and horn sounding instruments.

Edited November 15, 2016 by pogi

[mnn727]

16 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

If I recall correctly, Handbook 2 did supercede the Music Handbook and other such handbooks. 

You recall correctly, I was Ward Exec Secretary when CH 2 came out. Each organizations presidency got a copy of it with instruction to return their old handbooks for disposal.

[Guest]

21 hours ago, rongo said:

I have a wonderful music chair who is kind of overbearing and heavy-handed. She is convinced that guitar in any capacity is strictly forbidden in the chapel, and I told her that there is nothing in the handbooks along these lines (as long as it is reverent and appropriate, of course). She said that this is in the music handbook, or something like that. 

Can anyone set me straight on this? With sources and actual language would be helpful. 

Thanks!

I have been in many meeting with other instruments, including the violin, alone and with other instruments. I grew up in a Church were a singing group, which included family (even the Pastor's family) who were turned away unless they got rid of the guitar and the bass guitar, because string instruments were banned. I leaned over and asked my dad if I should remind the pastor that the piano was a string instrument? Needless to say, my dad snapped me into place very quickly. 

[Scott Lloyd]

6 hours ago, Buckeye said:

I agree with other comments about CHI 2 superseding prior instructions. While my ward has not had a guitar musical number in sacrament meeting, we routinely have numbers that include violins, cellos, bassoons, flutes and clarinets.

Nothing wrong with that.

And nothing wrong with a guitar if it is played worshipfully. Nor do the Church's guidelines preclude it.

[Scott Lloyd]

3 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

I have been in many meeting with other instruments, including the violin, alone and with other instruments. I grew up in a Church were a singing group, which included family (even the Pastor's family) who were turned away unless they got rid of the guitar and the bass guitar, because string instruments were banned. I leaned over and asked my dad if I should remind the pastor that the piano was a string instrument? Needless to say, my dad snapped me into place very quickly. 

Well, technically a piano is a percussion instrument (hammers striking the strings).

A harpsichord, on the other hand, is a string instrument (the strings are plucked as the keyboard is used).

 

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, mnn727 said:

You recall correctly, I was Ward Exec Secretary when CH 2 came out. Each organizations presidency got a copy of it with instruction to return their old handbooks for disposal.

I have a similar memory (I was stake Sunday School president then).

[Jeanne]

12 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

The guitar parts for "Wipeout!" (rhythm and lead) are easy. It's the drum part that tests your mettle.

 

You really need an electric guitar for "Johnny B. Goode."

I have an electric guitar and an amp. But my family won't stand for my playing them. I can barely get them to tolerate my acoustic.

Not that I'm a terrible player. They just don't like my music.

My Dad gave me this old..old antique amp...if you ever want to have it ..let me know.  It is just sitting in my attic.  My bro has a new one. 

[Scott Lloyd]

8 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

My Dad gave me this old..old antique amp...if you ever want to have it ..let me know.  It is just sitting in my attic.  My bro has a new one. 

When I bought my first electric guitar, a co-worker gave me an old amp he had found in a pawn shop. I came close to being electrocuted by it a time or two.

Needless to say, I bought a new one when I could afford it.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Well, technically a piano is a percussion instrument (hammers striking the strings).

A harpsichord, on the other hand, is a string instrument (the strings are plucked as the keyboard is used).

 

True, I was being a typical teenager, because my cousin and best friend was the bass player. Anyway, my uncle (also in the group)  played the piano, as he did already in the group. Oddly enough the Pastor who invited them was a second cousin to all in the Lee Family, and he knew whom he was inviting. The Church I grew up in was strict, but nothing like The Church of Christ, who allow no musical instruments in any meeting ever. 

[Jeanne]

An organ and a flute together..is to die for. 

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Well, technically a piano is a percussion instrument (hammers striking the strings).

A harpsichord, on the other hand, is a string instrument (the strings are plucked as the keyboard is used).

 

That means a bass guitar is a string instrument when it is picked or plucked and a percussion instrument when it is slapped (hammered) with the thumb.

[osteotome]

My wife has played her acoustic guitar a few times in Sacrament  generally it's for the primary choir (primary kids love it when she plays the guitar for them in primary)  she has played Away in the Manger on her acoustic guitar for primary kids in the Christmas Sacrament program a few times and never had any complaints     First time I was bishop and s little worried and a little nervous but found nothing in handbook forbidding it.  It seems like it was against brass and percussion though?