strappinglad Posted October 15, 2016 Posted October 15, 2016 I was listening to a radio program that discussed assisted dying. It said that there is a growth industry of seniors homes built in Germany near the border with the Netherlands . Apparently ,many seniors from the Netherlands , where assisted dying is legal, have moved to Germany , where it is not, so as to block attempts by relatives to ASSIST a bit too much and too soon. It really isn't a big step from " the right to die " to " the obligation to die " . That said, there should be a commensurate " right to be made free from never ending pain " Medical restrictions which dole out pain killers so sparingly need to be removed when terminal illness pain is involved. We have the technology. As for marijuana, I find myself still in the camp that says all drugs should be legal and regulated. Resources currently spent on the war on drugs would be better used for prevention, education, and rehabilitation. Anyone then still trying to operate outside that system of drug regulation should be subject to assisted dying. 2
thesometimesaint Posted October 15, 2016 Posted October 15, 2016 10 hours ago, JLHPROF said: Murder is the killing of another human being in violation of GOD'S law, not man's. So we are left to search out anything God might have said on suicide or assisted suicide. Only God can authorize the ending of another's life. Because he is the one that gave it. And you are correct. Sometimes God does direct or approve of killing but when he doesn't it is murder. Last time I checked the Penal Code; Murder is illegal. Suicide is illegal if you don't succeed. Believe me if I'm in a persistent vegetative state and some fool tries to keep me technically alive. When she/he gets on the other side. I'll kick their lower back side. We have any number of despots and jerks that claim God told them to utterly destroy. It is a common thread throughout human history. 1
Tacenda Posted October 15, 2016 Posted October 15, 2016 40 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said: Last time I checked the Penal Code; Murder is illegal. Suicide is illegal if you don't succeed. Believe me if I'm in a persistent vegetative state and some fool tries to keep me technically alive. When she/he gets on the other side. I'll kick their lower back side. We have any number of despots and jerks that claim God told them to utterly destroy. It is a common thread throughout human history. My mother suffered from early onset Alzheimer's for 10 years. I had to watch her go through so many situations that no human should have to. She was a brave soul for enduring it, but I'm not her. I will probably choose to end my life if I'm at a later stage with it. I feel it's better for everyone involved. I hope I can do it with some kind of accuracy and dignity vs. somehow lousing it up, or having someone have to clean up a bloody mess, or have to find me looking grotesque after doing it another horrible way.
Calm Posted October 15, 2016 Posted October 15, 2016 11 hours ago, thesometimesaint said: It is illegal in every State for minors to purchase alcohol. Yet minors still get drunk. You can get drunk off of alcohol filled candies. But in some places the law is better enforced and in others access to alcohol of the drinking kind is easier simply because it is much more available, such as sitting on the sideboard of the family home.
Calm Posted October 15, 2016 Posted October 15, 2016 (edited) 11 hours ago, thesometimesaint said: It is illegal in every State for minors to purchase alcohol. Yet minors still get drunk. You can get drunk off of alcohol filled candies. What does this have to do with any of my posts? I hope you aren't claiming that it is random chance that Colorado is having more problems with youth using marijuana since it was legalized and it would have happened the same way in the same amount if it hadn't been legalized. Edited October 15, 2016 by Calm
strappinglad Posted October 15, 2016 Posted October 15, 2016 I'd be curious to know if States/cities close to the Colorado border have noticed an uptick in marijuana related crimes/incidents. 1
cacheman Posted October 15, 2016 Posted October 15, 2016 6 hours ago, Calm said: What does this have to do with any of my posts? I hope you aren't claiming that it is random chance that Colorado is having more problems with youth using marijuana since it was legalized and it would have happened the same way in the same amount if it hadn't been legalized. Hi calm, Could you share the statistics showing this increase? The statistics that I'm aware of are the state commissioned study posted on the government website. Those numbers show a decrease in teen cannabis use compared to usage rates before legalization. Also the usage rate remains below the national average You posted an article referencing issues with children and gummy bears. It might be worth noting that gummy bears and other candies are not legal in Colorado anymore. There are also new laws limiting the amount of thc in edibles as well as new packaging and labeling restrictions. Many in the industry adopted these more stringent practices voluntarily...well before the law was drafted. The industry's response to this could serve as a good example to the alcohol industry which is increasingly producing and marketing alcoholic beverages enticing to young people (ie. Hard sodas, rootbeers, and energy drinks). Unfortunately, despite their much more detrimental effect on children, they seemingly elicit less of a public outcry. cacheman
thesometimesaint Posted October 15, 2016 Posted October 15, 2016 10 hours ago, Calm said: But in some places the law is better enforced and in others access to alcohol of the drinking kind is easier simply because it is much more available, such as sitting on the sideboard of the family home. True. It is up to their presumably adult parents to set and enforce firm standards. I'm not in favor of prohibition on adults.
The Nehor Posted October 15, 2016 Posted October 15, 2016 On 10/14/2016 at 0:33 PM, ksfisher said: I was told about 5 years ago in a training conducted by a DOT official that 90% of medical marijuana prescriptions in California were issued to 20 to 30 year olds for "chronic pain." Yeah, and wait until the currently burgeoning technologies for quickly detecting drug use get out to patrol officers. Drugged driving is going to be found to be responsible for a lot of accidents. DOT is already looking into it. Proviso: Yes, marijuana use IS generally safer for use by drivers then alcohol use but both are dangerous. 1
The Nehor Posted October 15, 2016 Posted October 15, 2016 19 hours ago, strappinglad said: I was listening to a radio program that discussed assisted dying. It said that there is a growth industry of seniors homes built in Germany near the border with the Netherlands . Apparently ,many seniors from the Netherlands , where assisted dying is legal, have moved to Germany , where it is not, so as to block attempts by relatives to ASSIST a bit too much and too soon. It really isn't a big step from " the right to die " to " the obligation to die " . That said, there should be a commensurate " right to be made free from never ending pain " Medical restrictions which dole out pain killers so sparingly need to be removed when terminal illness pain is involved. We have the technology. This. While I have no personal moral objections to assisted euthanasia I worry about the ramifications. The court battles with people eager to get mom or dad's money and insisting their parents told them they want to die or, more sypathetically, exhausted with caregiving, believe it is time. The competency hearings if they do want to die, the fights over inheritance getting more complex, etc. 1
The Nehor Posted October 15, 2016 Posted October 15, 2016 22 hours ago, toon said: God has apparently approved of all kinds of reasons for ending human life that we would now, almost universally, consider repugnant. But the voluntary termination of life of someone with a terminal illness who otherwise would be force to live shortly and miserably is something that the Church feels it needs to weigh in on. If a man lies with another man as with a women, the punishment is death. But if a man has a terminal illness and asks for assistance in a painless death, as opposed to a prolonged, painful and miserable death, well, we can't have that. You should point out God's mistake to Him. I am sure He will appreciate it. 1
Nofear Posted October 15, 2016 Author Posted October 15, 2016 As a note, while the Church opposes medically assisted suicide neither does Church policy advocate undue prolonging of life. We are not opposed to death and even on occasion give priesthood blessings releasing individuals from mortality. On the other hand sometimes seemingly hopeless medical scenarios and suffering are for the trial and blessing of the individual and loved ones. Yet such judgements are ultimately for the Lord to make. 2
VideoGameJunkie Posted October 15, 2016 Posted October 15, 2016 I hope I never have to suffer end of life extreme pain. My prayer is to go peacefully when the time is right and my life mission is over. I hate that people suffer at the end of life after having already gone through a tough life already.
Calm Posted October 15, 2016 Posted October 15, 2016 9 hours ago, cacheman said: Hi calm, Could you share the statistics showing this increase? The statistics that I'm aware of are the state commissioned study posted on the government website. Those numbers show a decrease in teen cannabis use compared to usage rates before legalization. Also the usage rate remains below the national average You posted an article referencing issues with children and gummy bears. It might be worth noting that gummy bears and other candies are not legal in Colorado anymore. There are also new laws limiting the amount of thc in edibles as well as new packaging and labeling restrictions. Many in the industry adopted these more stringent practices voluntarily...well before the law was drafted. The industry's response to this could serve as a good example to the alcohol industry which is increasingly producing and marketing alcoholic beverages enticing to young people (ie. Hard sodas, rootbeers, and energy drinks). Unfortunately, despite their much more detrimental effect on children, they seemingly elicit less of a public outcry. cacheman I linked to the articles with the people claiming it. I really don't know if those are accurate or up to date, there may have been a surge and then subsiding; just there are people living the situation, some in positions of authority that are expressing some concerns. My own position is to legalize for medical use and proceed with caution. And I agree that alcohol is a more dangerous drug and hopefully will learn.
ksfisher Posted October 15, 2016 Posted October 15, 2016 1 hour ago, Calm said: My own position is to legalize for medical use and proceed with caution. I worry that this would open doors to the same kind of abuse that we see with other painkillers.
Calm Posted October 16, 2016 Posted October 16, 2016 (edited) Yeah, as a major victim of the over restriction of painkillers, I tend to worry about the suffering of people who need them and are refused and then treated as criminals by their doctors. I would be having a relatively normal life (and maybe I could have prevented my daughter from having such horrible depression and anxiety if I had been able to care for her physical needs better) if I hadn't been refused drugs that caused no side effects or worsening of my disorder because of other people's addictions issues. Doctors often don't want to have to spend time with patients, working with them and thus we end up with those unnecessarily suffering and those who get addicted. Edited October 16, 2016 by Calm
thesometimesaint Posted October 16, 2016 Posted October 16, 2016 7 hours ago, The Nehor said: This. While I have no personal moral objections to assisted euthanasia I worry about the ramifications. The court battles with people eager to get mom or dad's money and insisting their parents told them they want to die or, more sypathetically, exhausted with caregiving, believe it is time. The competency hearings if they do want to die, the fights over inheritance getting more complex, etc. The best solution is to have a DNR on file with your doctor before needing it.
Nofear Posted October 16, 2016 Author Posted October 16, 2016 The Church has no quibbles with a DNR. I personally quite agree it a good thing to have. I once read (not sure where) that doctors of terminally ill patients almost always have one themselves.
thesometimesaint Posted October 16, 2016 Posted October 16, 2016 2 minutes ago, Nofear said: The Church has no quibbles with a DNR. I personally quite agree it a good thing to have. I once read (not sure where) that doctors of terminally ill patients almost always have one themselves. I have one.
The Nehor Posted October 16, 2016 Posted October 16, 2016 2 hours ago, thesometimesaint said: The best solution is to have a DNR on file with your doctor before needing it. A DNR order is not the same as assisted suicide. That is cutting off care to let someone die which the church takes no position on. They object to taking direct action to end a life. Allowing it to happen is not in the same category. 2
Calm Posted October 16, 2016 Posted October 16, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, The Nehor said: A DNR order is not the same as assisted suicide. That is cutting off care to let someone die which the church takes no position on. They object to taking direct action to end a life. Allowing it to happen is not in the same category. And it certainly does not help prevent pushing of termination on those who don't want it. Nor is a DNR legally binding. Edited October 16, 2016 by Calm
thesometimesaint Posted October 16, 2016 Posted October 16, 2016 10 hours ago, The Nehor said: A DNR order is not the same as assisted suicide. That is cutting off care to let someone die which the church takes no position on. They object to taking direct action to end a life. Allowing it to happen is not in the same category. Never said it was.
The Nehor Posted October 16, 2016 Posted October 16, 2016 23 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said: Never said it was. Yet you responded to my post about euthanasia as if it were a solution to the difficulties. 1
thesometimesaint Posted October 16, 2016 Posted October 16, 2016 7 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Yet you responded to my post about euthanasia as if it were a solution to the difficulties. I haven't made up my own mind on euthanasia. It would have to self initiated, no signs of serious mental health issues(Other than the fact that they are dying), within 6 months of projected death, incurable/intractable pain, able to give legal consent. Even then I have serious reservations about it.
Tacenda Posted October 16, 2016 Posted October 16, 2016 13 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said: I haven't made up my own mind on euthanasia. It would have to self initiated, no signs of serious mental health issues(Other than the fact that they are dying), within 6 months of projected death, incurable/intractable pain, able to give legal consent. Even then I have serious reservations about it. What do you feel about Alzheimers? 1
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