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Colorado Members get Letter from First Presidency


Nofear

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2 hours ago, Nofear said:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865664777/LDS-leaders-ask-Mormons-to-oppose-legalization-of-assisted-suicide-recreational-marijuana.html

They are urged to oppose recreational marijuana and physician assisted suicide. Article has a dropbox link to the letter.

They were talking about this on the news.
Totally agree with them on suicide and recreational marijuana.  Personally I'm completely ok with medicinal marijuana use.

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35 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

 Personally I'm completely ok with medicinal marijuana use.

I was told about 5 years ago in a training conducted by a DOT official that 90% of medical marijuana prescriptions in California were issued to 20 to 30 year olds for "chronic pain."

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42 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

They were talking about this on the news.
Totally agree with them on suicide and recreational marijuana.  Personally I'm completely ok with medicinal marijuana use.

The more I read about it, I believe marijuana is a legitimate treatment for many ailments. I wish the church had added this notion, maybe they did. 

And I really see the need for assisted suicide also. They treat animals better than people, when they shoot a horse or put an animal to sleep so they won't suffer. Why not people? 

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3 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

And I really see the need for assisted suicide also. They treat animals better than people, when they shoot a horse or put an animal to sleep so they won't suffer. Why not people? 

Because that would be murder.  :huh:
You know, thou shalt not kill etc.

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2 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Because that would be murder.  :huh:
You know, thou shalt not kill etc.

Murder is the illegal killing of another human being.

You know that whole "Thou shalt utterly destroy" thing.

SEE Deuteronomy 20:17

But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:
 

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18 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

Murder is the illegal killing of another human being.

You know that whole "Thou shalt utterly destroy" thing.

SEE Deuteronomy 20:17

But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:
 

Murder is the killing of another human being in violation of GOD'S law, not man's.
So we are left to search out anything God might have said on suicide or assisted suicide.

Only God can authorize the ending of another's life.  Because he is the one that gave it.  And you are correct.  Sometimes God does direct or approve of killing but when he doesn't it is murder.

Edited by JLHPROF
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7 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

The more I read about it, I believe marijuana is a legitimate treatment for many ailments. I wish the church had added this notion, maybe they did. 

And I really see the need for assisted suicide also. They treat animals better than people, when they shoot a horse or put an animal to sleep so they won't suffer. Why not people? 

I think some of the reasons brought up for opposing the assisted suicide bill deserve discussion. 

Potential encouragement by relatives who could inherit money.  The less money spent on medical costs, the more money a relative could inherit.

Suicide contagion.  From the article:

"It sends the wrong message to young people. In Oregon, there is a correlation between assisted suicide and youth suicide."

Oregon's suicide rate, excluding physician-assisted suicides, has increased steadily since its law passed in 1997 to 42 percent above the national average in 2012. Suicide is the leading cause of death among 18- to 34-year-old Oregonians and is rising among older demographics in the state as well."

I also wonder how insurance companies will respond.  There is less cost/more profit for the insurance company if someone ends there life rather than racking up 6 more months of medical bills for the insurance company to pay.

There is also this, shared by Sister McConkie last conference

"As you pray to Heavenly Father in faith, “he will console you in your afflictions, … [and ye may] feast upon his love.”9 President Henry B. Eyring shared that his father’s prayers during a losing battle with cancer taught him the deeply personal relationship between God and His children:

“When the pain became intense, we found him in the morning on his knees by the bed. He had been too weak to get back into bed. He told us he had been praying to ask his Heavenly Father why he had to suffer so much when he had always tried to be good. He said a kindly answer came: ‘God needs brave sons.’

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2016/10/the-souls-sincere-desire?lang=eng

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28 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

The more I read about it, I believe marijuana is a legitimate treatment for many ailments. I wish the church had added this notion, maybe they did. 

I believe Colorado already has medical marijuana so there would be no need.

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President George Q. Cannon of the First Presidency made a clear statement about the seriousness of suicide when he said: “Man did not create himself. He did not furnish his spirit with a human dwelling place. It is God who created man, both body and spirit. Man has no right, therefore, to destroy that which he had no agency in creating. They who do so are guilty of murder, self-murder it is true; but they are no more justified in killing themselves than they are in killing others. What difference of punishment there is for the two crimes, I do not know; but it is clear that no one can destroy so precious a gift as that of life without incurring a severe penalty.” (Gospel Truth, 2 vols., Salt Lake City: Zion’s Book Store, 1957, 1:30; italics added.)

President Spencer W. Kimball made an equally strong statement in 1976. “It is a terrible criminal act for a person to go out and shorten his life by suicide,” he said. (Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, ed. Edward L. Kimball, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1982, p. 187.)

 “Suicide consists in the voluntary and intentional taking of one’s own life, particularly where the person involved is accountable and has a sound mind. … Persons subject to great stresses may lose control of themselves and become mentally clouded to the point that they are no longer accountable for their acts. Such are not to be condemned for taking their own lives. It should also be remembered that judgment is the Lord’s; he knows the thoughts, intents, and abilities of men; and he in his infinite wisdom will make all things right in due course.” (Bruce R. McConkie Mormon Doctrine, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966, p. 771;)

"Suicide is a sin—a very grievous one, yet the Lord will not judge the person who commits that sin strictly by the act itself. The Lord will look at that person’s circumstances and the degree of his accountability at the time of the act. Of course, this gives us no reason to excuse ourselves in committing sins, nor will the Lord excuse us, if I understand correctly." M. Russell Ballard

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57 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

The Law of Unintended Consequences has a habit of biting us on the rear end.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/02/21/from-colorado-glimpse-life-after-marijuana-legalization/rcccuzhMDWV74UC4IxXIYJ/story.html

"Jackson, former president of the Colorado Association of Chiefs of Police, and other police officials said legalization simply moved much faster than law enforcement officers’ ability to keep up with it.

Jackson, who sounded beleaguered in an interview, said a fallacy of legalization is that it would give law enforcement time back to focus on more serious, complicated criminal issues and bigger drug problems.

Two years and two months into full legalization, he said, “we’re not seeing that.”

Another problem with edible marijuana products, said Dr. Michael DiStefano, who directs emergency medicine clinical operations at Colorado’s only top-level pediatric trauma center: the inability of kids to distinguish between normal products and those infused with THC.

When marijuana is “handled responsibly, it’s not an issue for children’s health. The problem is a lot of these edibles,” he said. “They look like regular candy. . . . There’s no way to discern what is an edible gummy bear that has THC in it, versus a regular gummy bear. In fact, you cannot distinguish them unless they’re in the package.”

He said he’s seen an uptick in kids admitted to the ER at Children’s Hospital Colorado — to about 15 last year — ill from accidentally ingesting edible marijuana-infused foods since the drug became legal for recreational use in January 2014.

Indeed, the most grinding concerns and the biggest question marks focus on kids and young adults. But the effects of legalization on children remain effectively unknown with about two years of experience and lagging statistics...."

 

Edited by Calm
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http://dailycaller.com/2015/10/16/colorado-school-officials-marijuana-is-the-no-1-problem-in-schools-right-now/

"Public school teachers and officials in Colorado say they are immensely concerned that large numbers of students are using lots of marijuana now that the drug is legal across the state.

The growing problem of dazed and confused students was a widely discussed issue among the 350 or so school officials, teachers and law enforcement officials who gathered at a Safe Schools Summit conference this week in Thornton, Colo., The Denver Post reports.

The Colorado School Safety Resource Center, the conference sponsor, specifically scheduled a panel on how marijuana legalization is affecting schools because many attendees had specifically requested it.

“It’s the No. 1 problem in schools right now,” Lynn Riemer, president of ACT on Drugs, told the Post."

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http://kdvr.com/2016/05/24/prosecutors-colorado-sees-increase-in-murders-motivated-by-marijuana/

"DENVER -- Some prosecutors in Colorado say they're noticing a new trend: An increase in murders motivated by marijuana.

In Aurora, the last 10 of 15 drug-related homicide cases were connected to marijuana.

Arapahoe County District Attorney George Brauchler said it's not the big-time dealers who are involved. For the most part, it has been the small-time ones on the streets.

In Jefferson County, a burned-up car had a dead body inside, and investigators later determined the victim was harvesting marijuana nearly 100 miles away in Agate. When he was killed, he was stuffed into the trunk.

"There is increased crime, sometimes violent crime, associated with legalization of marijuana," Brauchler said. "That's not what you'd expect. You'd expect the harder-core drugs."

Man recent marijuana murder cases involve small-time street dealers getting killed for their marijuana and money.

"If cash is the only way to acquire marijuana, crime follows cash," Brauchler said.

Mark Chafant, 19, is one of many victims. He was allegedly trying to sell a bag of marijuana to some teenagers when he was shot and killed. Calvin Banks and two other juveniles were charged with the crime.

Other cases involve local dealers accused of killing tourists. Brauchler believes the legalization of marijuana is partly to blame for the rise in crime.

"It is easier for there to be black market in a legalized system than there was before," he said.

Brauchler said until law enforcement figures out a way to slow the flow of black market marijuana and the cash that comes with it, the marijuana-related death rate in the state will continue to grow."

-----

Unintended consequences indeed.

Edited by Calm
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17 minutes ago, Calm said:

I believe Colorado already has medical marijuana so there would be no need.

I was speaking about all places that don't currently have a law allowing medical marijuana. But understand this wasn't in the OP. It appears, that maybe the church was zeroing in on recreational use, just realised this.

Edited by Tacenda
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14 minutes ago, Calm said:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/02/21/from-colorado-glimpse-life-after-marijuana-legalization/rcccuzhMDWV74UC4IxXIYJ/story.html

"

Jackson, former president of the Colorado Association of Chiefs of Police, and other police officials said legalization simply moved much faster than law enforcement officers’ ability to keep up with it.

Jackson, who sounded beleaguered in an interview, said a fallacy of legalization is that it would give law enforcement time back to focus on more serious, complicated criminal issues and bigger drug problems.

Two years and two months into full legalization, he said, “we’re not seeing that.”

Another problem with edible marijuana products, said Dr. Michael DiStefano, who directs emergency medicine clinical operations at Colorado’s only top-level pediatric trauma center: the inability of kids to distinguish between normal products and those infused with THC.

When marijuana is “handled responsibly, it’s not an issue for children’s health. The problem is a lot of these edibles,” he said. “They look like regular candy. . . . There’s no way to discern what is an edible gummy bear that has THC in it, versus a regular gummy bear. In fact, you cannot distinguish them unless they’re in the package.”

He said he’s seen an uptick in kids admitted to the ER at Children’s Hospital Colorado — to about 15 last year — ill from accidentally ingesting edible marijuana-infused foods since the drug became legal for recreational use in January 2014.

Indeed, the most grinding concerns and the biggest question marks focus on kids and young adults. But the effects of legalization on children remain effectively unknown with about two years of experience and lagging statistics...."

 

It is illegal in every State for minors to purchase alcohol. Yet minors still get drunk.

You can get drunk off of alcohol filled candies.

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15 minutes ago, Calm said:

http://dailycaller.com/2015/10/16/colorado-school-officials-marijuana-is-the-no-1-problem-in-schools-right-now/

"Public school teachers and officials in Colorado say they are immensely concerned that large numbers of students are using lots of marijuana now that the drug is legal across the state.

The growing problem of dazed and confused students was a widely discussed issue among the 350 or so school officials, teachers and law enforcement officials who gathered at a Safe Schools Summit conference this week in Thornton, Colo., The Denver Post reports.

The Colorado School Safety Resource Center, the conference sponsor, specifically scheduled a panel on how marijuana legalization is affecting schools because many attendees had specifically requested it.

“It’s the No. 1 problem in schools right now,” Lynn Riemer, president of ACT on Drugs, told the Post."

I would hate...hate...any legalization of recreational use of marijuana in the state of Utah. Just wanted anyone to know that. I had a few friends that smoked pot daily in high school. It showed too. 

But can see that for medicinal reasons, like other herbs, that it helps tons better than a lot of other drugs on the market.

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_suicide

"Dignitas helps Swiss nationals and foreigners to commit suicide by providing advice and lethal drugs. The legal pre-requisites are that a person must have either a terminal illness, an unendurable incapacitating disability or unbearable and uncontrollable pain.[11] However, in practice they also accept mentally ill patients[12] or those without a medical diagnosis, for example the retired British art teacher who killed herself on 27 March 2014 "in part because she had become fed up with the modern world of emails, TVs, computers and supermarket ready meals."[13]"

I am not necessarily against it.  We should look at places with long term use and include their experience in evaluating it.  Errors due to perhaps a too causal attitude towards it after practicing it for more than 75 years might be showing up in Swizterland if the above anomalies are accurate.  

Dad could have survived his major organs shutting down by having dialysis three times a week, plus at minimum 6 months of aggressive care in a care facility in order to get back something more than a bedridden state.  We knew that would be hell for him (he was constantly moving and going on trips), so we removed him from life support as he had previously indicated he wished (no DNR, etc.).  It was essentially the same as assisted suicide in intent, if not in how it was done as he could have been kept alive, but what a cost.  I was recently looking for some info and found an old will that stated if Mom died first he was heading to Oregon.  Living alone without Mom not appealing, living with anyone else less appealing. (I got my disorder from him, but he had a crap doctor who had him on a dose 8 times too high, almost the level of Parkinson's patients where they have to take major drugs for side effects; it explains a lot of what was happening to him...mistakes, falls requiring hospitalization, losing things, passing out at 6 PM, throwing himself out of bed at 4 am, too many pain killers, too much pain, being unaware of Mom a lot...it could have been so much better if he was willing to accept being vulnerable in front of his kids and just talk to me and I could have hooked him up with someone who would make him quite comfortable... sigh).

Edited by Calm
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39 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

It is illegal in every State for minors to purchase alcohol. Yet minors still get drunk.

You can get drunk off of alcohol filled candies.

I'm not expert on marijuana or alcohol, but it seems that "infused" candies and other goods are much more prevalent with marijuana than booze. And alcohol has been regulated for many many years; marijuana is a recent phenomena. So it shouldn't be surprising that kids would be more likely to accidentally swallow a pot-gummy bear than some alcohol-infused candy.

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59 minutes ago, Buckeye said:

I'm not expert on marijuana or alcohol, but it seems that "infused" candies and other goods are much more prevalent with marijuana than booze. And alcohol has been regulated for many many years; marijuana is a recent phenomena. So it shouldn't be surprising that kids would be more likely to accidentally swallow a pot-gummy bear than some alcohol-infused candy.

Forbidden Fruit.

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1 hour ago, Calm said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_suicide

"Dignitas helps Swiss nationals and foreigners to commit suicide by providing advice and lethal drugs. The legal pre-requisites are that a person must have either a terminal illness, an unendurable incapacitating disability or unbearable and uncontrollable pain.[11] However, in practice they also accept mentally ill patients[12] or those without a medical diagnosis, for example the retired British art teacher who killed herself on 27 March 2014 "in part because she had become fed up with the modern world of emails, TVs, computers and supermarket ready meals."[13]"

I am not necessarily against it.  We should look at places with long term use and include their experience in evaluating it.  Errors due to perhaps a too causal attitude towards it after practicing it for more than 75 years might be showing up in Swizterland if the above anomalies are accurate.  

Dad could have survived his major organs shutting down by having dialysis three times a week, plus at minimum 6 months of aggressive care in a care facility in order to get back something more than a bedridden state.  We knew that would be hell for him (he was constantly moving and going on trips), so we removed him from life support as he had previously indicated he wished (no DNR, etc.).  It was essentially the same as assisted suicide in intent, if not in how it was done as he could have been kept alive, but what a cost.  I was recently looking for some info and found an old will that stated if Mom died first he was heading to Oregon.  Living alone without Mom not appealing, living with anyone else less appealing. (I got my disorder from him, but he had a crap doctor who had him on a dose 8 times too high, almost the level of Parkinson's patients where they have to take major drugs for side effects; it explains a lot of what was happening to him...mistakes, falls requiring hospitalization, losing things, passing out at 6 PM, throwing himself out of bed at 4 am, too many pain killers, too much pain, being unaware of Mom a lot...it could have been so much better if he was willing to accept being vulnerable in front of his kids and just talk to me and I could have hooked him up with someone who would make him quite comfortable... sigh).

What a sad situation.

I have a DNR for myself. I'm not suicidal and have no desire to die. But have even less of a desire to live life as a vegetable. Let me go to be with my parents and other loved ones who have passed on.

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3 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Murder is the killing of another human being in violation of GOD'S law, not man's.
So we are left to search out anything God might have said on suicide or assisted suicide.

Only God can authorize the ending of another's life.  Because he is the one that gave it.  And you are correct.  Sometimes God does direct or approve of killing but when he doesn't it is murder.

God has apparently approved of all kinds of reasons for ending human life that we would now, almost universally, consider repugnant.  But the voluntary termination of life of someone with a terminal illness who otherwise would be force to live shortly and miserably is something that the Church feels it needs to weigh in on.

If a man lies with another man as with a women, the punishment is death.  But if a man has a terminal illness and asks for assistance in a painless death, as opposed to a prolonged, painful and miserable death, well, we can't have that.

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3 hours ago, Calm said:

I believe Colorado already has medical marijuana so there would be no need.

Colorado also has recreational marijuana.  The First Presidency letter to Colorado members only dealt with the assisted suicide measure.  There was a separate letter to California, Arizona, and Nevada members, as those states all have recreational marijuana measures on the ballot.

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3 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

President George Q. Cannon of the First Presidency made a clear statement about the seriousness of suicide when he said: “Man did not create himself. He did not furnish his spirit with a human dwelling place. It is God who created man, both body and spirit. Man has no right, therefore, to destroy that which he had no agency in creating. They who do so are guilty of murder, self-murder it is true; but they are no more justified in killing themselves than they are in killing others. What difference of punishment there is for the two crimes, I do not know; but it is clear that no one can destroy so precious a gift as that of life without incurring a severe penalty.” (Gospel Truth, 2 vols., Salt Lake City: Zion’s Book Store, 1957, 1:30; italics added.)

President Spencer W. Kimball made an equally strong statement in 1976. “It is a terrible criminal act for a person to go out and shorten his life by suicide,” he said. (Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, ed. Edward L. Kimball, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1982, p. 187.)

 “Suicide consists in the voluntary and intentional taking of one’s own life, particularly where the person involved is accountable and has a sound mind. … Persons subject to great stresses may lose control of themselves and become mentally clouded to the point that they are no longer accountable for their acts. Such are not to be condemned for taking their own lives. It should also be remembered that judgment is the Lord’s; he knows the thoughts, intents, and abilities of men; and he in his infinite wisdom will make all things right in due course.” (Bruce R. McConkie Mormon Doctrine, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966, p. 771;)

"Suicide is a sin—a very grievous one, yet the Lord will not judge the person who commits that sin strictly by the act itself. The Lord will look at that person’s circumstances and the degree of his accountability at the time of the act. Of course, this gives us no reason to excuse ourselves in committing sins, nor will the Lord excuse us, if I understand correctly." M. Russell Ballard

So let people be judged.

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10 minutes ago, toon said:

God has apparently approved of all kinds of reasons for ending human life that we would now, almost universally, consider repugnant.  But the voluntary termination of life of someone with a terminal illness who otherwise would be force to live shortly and miserably is something that the Church feels it needs to weigh in on.

God's ways are not our ways.  Also, we belong to God, not the other way round.
 

Quote

If a man lies with another man as with a women, the punishment is death.  But if a man has a terminal illness and asks for assistance in a painless death, as opposed to a prolonged, painful and miserable death, well, we can't have that.

Two wrongs don't make a right.
Sin is sin.  Homosexual acts are sin.  Suicide is sin although there may be extenuating circumstances which makes it a sin only God can truly judge.

6 minutes ago, toon said:

So let people be judged.

Not sure what you mean in context here.  But we all will be judged eventually.

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