Let us talk Pride Cycle

[stemelbow]

whose ever been a more proud and even more blessed people than our current LDS membership?  I don't know there's ever been such.  The pride of being one among many millions who have been blessed to live at such a time, in such a circumstance to be a part of the kingdom of God on earth?  I'm not intending to condemn us, but scripture seems to.  We learn the BoM is for our day and one main recurring theme in that book is the pride cycle, as we like to say.  A humbled people, start to receive blessings from above, due to their humility.  They then, as blessings amass, grow in pride, find themselves living in luxury.  And then finding themselves in such a blessed state they are defeated, struck down, in some way in order to be humbled again.  And then it goes again. 

Applying this on an individual level, it's hard to work out.  It's perhaps possible the most humble of individual people could be stuck in the midst of the generation of people who are generally speaking the most proud.  These process of one cycle seems to span a number of generations.  Yet, the very humblest could be faced with all kinds of tragedy and could have to suffer extremely due to the pride of their generation.  Today we may have some humble among us, I'm guessing (how the hell would I know since I'm surely amongst the proud?)...maybe if we counted up the humble it'd be a huge number.  But to our great God we are probably a pretty proud people--a people ripe for destruction.  Sure, as our prediction of the future goes, we'll find some spared to some extent, but its coming, we're told. 

It's a weird cycle of human's existence, isn't it?  Supposedly having recurred many times over the course of human existence.  It kind of makes sense to me.  Particularly today--today more than ever we should be seeing ourselves as part of a human race, brother and sister to anyone else who lives.  yet in luxury we seem to forget that.  We proudly live in ease while millions suffer seemingly needlessly.  I tend to think most of us our proud of that.  We earned it, somehow.  "We work hard" blah blah blah... The world we live is a bit cut throat in that sense.  And many of us excel in it.  Capitalism is successful because it feeds off the desire of humans who want luxury.  Our society and culture is such that the gap between those who are living in luxury and those who aren't is widening.  I wonder if that gap is larger than it's ever been.  Probably so, I can't imagine a more rich and more luxurious lifestyle. 

Sometimes I feel like a crazy guy on the street corner.  I feel like such a person has it right. I get that spirit in me.  Where I want to drop everything I'm doing and preach loudly against development and progress at the expense of the millions of others who take no part.  Other times I realize I'm just here, with everyone else, living in this crazy world.  one proud in a generation that is destined to be destroyed.  I'm probably off.  I'll probably live the rest of my life in relative ease and the destruction will come when the world is even more ripe.  I guess what I've come to conclude is there's really no escaping the outcome.  I can wiggle and whine.  I can go barefoot, leave my family and yelp into space.  It doesn't matter.  There's no stopping the coming doom.  If it comes and I'm spared, I think I'll hate myself.  Maybe that's intended.  Maybe I'm just a loon who can't figure anything out. 

How are we even living?  We're just pretending when/if we ever think we've figured it out, it seems.

[RevTestament]

50 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

whose ever been a more proud and even more blessed people than our current LDS membership?  I don't know there's ever been such.  The pride of being one among many millions who have been blessed to live at such a time, in such a circumstance to be a part of the kingdom of God on earth?  I'm not intending to condemn us, but scripture seems to.  We learn the BoM is for our day and one main recurring theme in that book is the pride cycle, as we like to say.  A humbled people, start to receive blessings from above, due to their humility.  They then, as blessings amass, grow in pride, find themselves living in luxury.  And then finding themselves in such a blessed state they are defeated, struck down, in some way in order to be humbled again.  And then it goes again. 

Applying this on an individual level, it's hard to work out.  It's perhaps possible the most humble of individual people could be stuck in the midst of the generation of people who are generally speaking the most proud.  These process of one cycle seems to span a number of generations.  Yet, the very humblest could be faced with all kinds of tragedy and could have to suffer extremely due to the pride of their generation.  Today we may have some humble among us, I'm guessing (how the hell would I know since I'm surely amongst the proud?)...maybe if we counted up the humble it'd be a huge number.  But to our great God we are probably a pretty proud people--a people ripe for destruction.  Sure, as our prediction of the future goes, we'll find some spared to some extent, but its coming, we're told. 

It's a weird cycle of human's existence, isn't it?  Supposedly having recurred many times over the course of human existence.  It kind of makes sense to me.  Particularly today--today more than ever we should be seeing ourselves as part of a human race, brother and sister to anyone else who lives.  yet in luxury we seem to forget that.  We proudly live in ease while millions suffer seemingly needlessly.  I tend to think most of us our proud of that.  We earned it, somehow.  "We work hard" blah blah blah... The world we live is a bit cut throat in that sense.  And many of us excel in it.  Capitalism is successful because it feeds off the desire of humans who want luxury.  Our society and culture is such that the gap between those who are living in luxury and those who aren't is widening.  I wonder if that gap is larger than it's ever been.  Probably so, I can't imagine a more rich and more luxurious lifestyle. 

Sometimes I feel like a crazy guy on the street corner.  I feel like such a person has it right. I get that spirit in me.  Where I want to drop everything I'm doing and preach loudly against development and progress at the expense of the millions of others who take no part.  Other times I realize I'm just here, with everyone else, living in this crazy world.  one proud in a generation that is destined to be destroyed.  I'm probably off.  I'll probably live the rest of my life in relative ease and the destruction will come when the world is even more ripe.  I guess what I've come to conclude is there's really no escaping the outcome.  I can wiggle and whine.  I can go barefoot, leave my family and yelp into space.  It doesn't matter.  There's no stopping the coming doom.  If it comes and I'm spared, I think I'll hate myself.  Maybe that's intended.  Maybe I'm just a loon who can't figure anything out. 

How are we even living?  We're just pretending when/if we ever think we've figured it out, it seems.

I gave you a RP for being brave to bring up this subject. In the sense you are talking about pride it is a relative thing. Because even the poorest in our society, are rich by world standards. So although you seem to be saying they are not prideful in their poverty, they usually have it well off by world standards but just don't feel it since they don't live in say Africa or India or Indonesia. I think the thing to remember about pride is that it is really an attitude. There are some who have a lot of money, but don't fling it about - Warren Buffet comes to mind - he still lives in the same house he did when he got married, and looks to give away most of his wealth. When I listen to him talk, I don't get the impression of a prideful person at all. He doesn't dress ostentatiously. He seems like a regular Joe. He is just filthy stinking rich. But I don't think he has let that make him filthy. He is still the same nice guy who is not out to make a quick buck at the expense of others. In fact he disdains that. 

Lest any of us think we are God's gift to the world, are special because we were born at the right time and place, etc, I think it behooves us to remember that the greatest among us will be the least. We still have yet to defeat the beast, and those who will not worship the beast will not be able to buy or sell. I think that will put an end to being prideful about position in society and stuff like that in order to follow the Lamb. So batten down the hatches if you believe the United States will continue in its present status of relative ease and freedom...but as for this generation, those who are faithful have a place stored up for them in helping the Lord build His kingdom. Amen.

[Atheist Mormon]

1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

 

How are we even living?  We're just pretending when/if we ever think we've figured it out, it seems.

I don't know what you mean by "feeling proud?". What is the alternative of "feeling proud"? I know LDS culture well, lived in Utah over 25 years. Mostly people live normal lives...What is the alternative? Feeling like a "Sheep" and "needy"? 

If the religion anyone believes, (not only Mormons) makes them exceedingly meek and subservient, is that a good thing? 

 

[stemelbow]

22 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

I gave you a RP for being brave to bring up this subject. In the sense you are talking about pride it is a relative thing. Because even the poorest in our society, are rich by world standards. So although you seem to be saying they are not prideful in their poverty, they usually have it well off by world standards but just don't feel it since they don't live in say Africa or India or Indonesia. I think the thing to remember about pride is that it is really an attitude. There are some who have a lot of money, but don't fling it about - Warren Buffet comes to mind - he still lives in the same house he did when he got married, and looks to give away most of his wealth. When I listen to him talk, I don't get the impression of a prideful person at all. He doesn't dress ostentatiously. He seems like a regular Joe. He is just filthy stinking rich. But I don't think he has let that make him filthy. He is still the same nice guy who is not out to make a quick buck at the expense of others. In fact he disdains that. 

Lest any of us think we are God's gift to the world, are special because we were born at the right time and place, etc, I think it behooves us to remember that the greatest among us will be the least. We still have yet to defeat the beast, and those who will not worship the beast will not be able to buy or sell. I think that will put an end to being prideful about position in society and stuff like that in order to follow the Lamb. So batten down the hatches if you believe the United States will continue in its present status of relative ease and freedom...but as for this generation, those who are faithful have a place stored up for them in helping the Lord build His kingdom. Amen.

That's all fair.  My big concern is even today some of the least rich live a life of luxury compared to many who once lived.  Sure the variation between the rich and poor today is pretty bad, but our generation on earth are pretty rich compared to past ones, exceptions of course exist.

[stemelbow]

14 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said:

I don't know what you mean by "feeling proud?". What is the alternative of "feeling proud"? I know LDS culture well, lived in Utah over 25 years. Mostly people live normal lives...What is the alternative? Feeling like a "Sheep" and "needy"? 

If the religion anyone believes, (not only Mormons) makes them exceedingly meek and subservient, is that a good thing? 

Even beyond the LDS world our generation is living in extreme luxury compared to those of past eras.  The scriptural message seems to be, those who live during the time are extreme luxury are proud, and that's probably human nature.  I see the pride in our day amongst the western world as much as anyone.  We are rich, by and large, even if there are varying levels of that.  We move forward in pride, forgetting the poor and needy among us, for the most part (of course I'm speaking in general terms, but so does scripture on this issue). 

By feeling proud, I mean having feelings of pride for self.  We all have that and I don't know that we escape it. 

[ksfisher]

1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

whose ever been a more proud and even more blessed people than our current LDS membership?

This would seem to be a pretty bold (and grammatically incorrect) sentence. 

How do you know this?

How do you measure how proud one culture is versus another? 

How do you measure this against the pride of past societies?

Your basic premise seems to be entirely subjective and based on your own, limited experiences.

I do think that many people today need to take a long, hard look at how they are living versus the other 90% of the world.

[stemelbow]

11 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

This would seem to be a pretty bold (and grammatically incorrect) sentence. 

How do you know this?

How do you measure how proud one culture is versus another? 

How do you measure this against the pride of past societies?

Your basic premise seems to be entirely subjective and based on your own, limited experiences.

I do think that many people today need to take a long, hard look at how they are living versus the other 90% of the world.

I'm not sure of it.  But it surely seems like.  I'm not sure how to classify a people as proud, really, though.  I'm just guessing based off what I read in scripture, like the BoM.  Every time the people got rich in the book of Mormon, they were considered proud.  We're far more rich than they ever were, and it feels likely the gap between rich and poor is greater than it ever has been. 

[Avatar4321]

in my work among the saints I find some of the humblest people in our society. Constantly willing to sacrifice and serve to minister to the needs of others.

are we perfect? Hardly. I constantly need work. But I think you are being unfair in your judgment of the saints. I think the Lord is well pleased with the body of the saints.

[ksfisher]

25 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I'm not sure of it.  But it surely seems like.  I'm not sure how to classify a people as proud, really, though.  I'm just guessing based off what I read in scripture, like the BoM.  Every time the people got rich in the book of Mormon, they were considered proud.  We're far more rich than they ever were, and it feels likely the gap between rich and poor is greater than it ever has been. 

I agree with you last sentence.  We as children of God (and not just LDS church members) need do more to take care of each other. 

I did have an interesting conversation with a coworker of mine of few weeks ago.  He was saying that the happiest times in his life were when he was living in Kenya (where he's from) and his family had nothing.  I guess that it just goes to show that material wealth is not linked to happiness.  I think that what is far more important is feeling loved, secure, and cared for.  So a loving family, shelter, and knowing where your next meal is coming from makes a happy life.  Unfortunately, too many people in the world do not have these things. 

[Rain]

53 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I'm not sure of it.  But it surely seems like.  I'm not sure how to classify a people as proud, really, though.  I'm just guessing based off what I read in scripture, like the BoM.  Every time the people got rich in the book of Mormon, they were considered proud.  We're far more rich than they ever were, and it feels likely the gap between rich and poor is greater than it ever has been. 

No. Sometimes they were considered rigteous and blessed.  However, every time they got rich they became prideful as a people, though not necessarily as individuals. 

I find that in the scriptures it usually says things like easier for a camel...than a rich man to heaven.  It doesn't say the rich man won't get to heaven. 

It is easier for a rich man to become prideful,  but a man can be rich and not prideful. 

I've also seen some pretty prideful poor people, "those rich people are all prideful.  Not like us poor who live on this side of town and keep the things of the Lord first. "

The great thing about seeing the pride cycle in the BoM is that it can remind us as we start to be financially blessed to watch ourselves so we can keep ourselves humble while rich.  

[stemelbow]

1 hour ago, Avatar4321 said:

in my work among the saints I find some of the humblest people in our society. Constantly willing to sacrifice and serve to minister to the needs of others.

are we perfect? Hardly. I constantly need work. But I think you are being unfair in your judgment of the saints. I think the Lord is well pleased with the body of the saints.

Fair enough.  Thanks for your input.

[stemelbow]

5 minutes ago, Rain said:

No. Sometimes they were considered rigteous and blessed.  However, every time they got rich they became prideful as a people, though not necessarily as individuals. 

Yep.  That's what I'm trying to say. 

5 minutes ago, Rain said:

I find that in the scriptures it usually says things like easier for a camel...than a rich man to heaven.  It doesn't say the rich man won't get to heaven. 

I'm sure that's true too. 

5 minutes ago, Rain said:

It is easier for a rich man to become prideful,  but a man can be rich and not prideful. 

I've also seen some pretty prideful poor people, "those rich people are all prideful.  Not like us poor who live on this side of town and keep the things of the Lord first. "

The great thing about seeing the pride cycle in the BoM is that it can remind us as we start to be financially blessed to watch ourselves so we can keep ourselves humble while rich.  

hm...and I'm not so sure we can do much to keep ourselves, as a people, from being proud.  As I indicated I'm not sure there's ever been a more proud people than modern day LDS.  The notion of being chosen for this era, an era in which far less than 1 percent of the world is LDS, seems to make it's mark on the hearts.  But pride is hard to identify in people, quite often. 

I'm curious if the inevitable doom that is acoming is coming precisely because we are rich and thus proud.  We humans can't seem to shake it, even if some of us seem to get it from time to time on an individual level.  As for me, I can be quite proud and times and others not so much. 

[Rain]

8 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Yep.  That's what I'm trying to say. 

I'm sure that's true too. 

hm...and I'm not so sure we can do much to keep ourselves, as a people, from being proud.  As I indicated I'm not sure there's ever been a more proud people than modern day LDS.  The notion of being chosen for this era, an era in which far less than 1 percent of the world is LDS, seems to make it's mark on the hearts.  But pride is hard to identify in people, quite often. 

I'm curious if the inevitable doom that is acoming is coming precisely because we are rich and thus proud.  We humans can't seem to shake it, even if some of us seem to get it from time to time on an individual level.  As for me, I can be quite proud and times and others not so much. 

I do think the idea of "chosen" can be a problem for some. Some of the ones that don't realize that many if not all people were chosen for a time and place throughout earthly existance. 

I think we only differ on two things. 1.  I think add a people we can live with wealth and humility, though as imperfect maybe not for long. The 200 years after Christ came to America give me inkljngs of that. 

2. I'm not so sure that modern LDS are the most prideful of people. Maybe they are,  but Ive heard so pretty prideful things from history and from not LDS. 

As I read your thread I keep coming back to reading this morning about Ammon boasting. I've always wondered why he was accused of it.  This morning I started to see him how the others might have seen him.  How they could have missed that he was praising God. I do think some get prideful about being chosen, but I think sometimes we think they are prideful because we don't catch that people are praiding the plan God has for all his people.

As individuals the only thing we can do is become humble ourselves and how that spreads before we are compelled to be humble.

[stemelbow]

20 minutes ago, Rain said:

I do think the idea of "chosen" can be a problem for some. Some of the ones that don't realize that many if not all people were chosen for a time and place throughout earthly existance. 

I think we only differ on two things. 1.  I think add a people we can live with wealth and humility, though as imperfect maybe not for long. The 200 years after Christ came to America give me inkljngs of that. 

2. I'm not so sure that modern LDS are the most prideful of people. Maybe they are,  but Ive heard so pretty prideful things from history and from not LDS. 

As I read your thread I keep coming back to reading this morning about Ammon boasting. I've always wondered why he was accused of it.  This morning I started to see him how the others might have seen him.  How they could have missed that he was praising God. I do think some get prideful about being chosen, but I think sometimes we think they are prideful because we don't catch that people are praiding the plan God has for all his people.

As individuals the only thing we can do is become humble ourselves and how that spreads before we are compelled to be humble.

I don't find myself necessarily disagreeing with what you are saying.  Thanks for the comments.  i'm curious how prideful the Nephites and Lamanites thought of themselves.  I think pride is hard enough to gauge it's really God deciding what is prideful.  I'm not sure we escape it though.  It feels like we're as rich as people ever have been (both LDS and non LDS I mean).  Of course the contrast between the rich and poor today gives us quite a wealth gap. 

I would think those who are prideful don't necessarily see themselves as such.  I'm proud in a lot of ways, but I also don't feel like I'm that proud.  Maybe I am, though.  Maybe I'm the worse of offenders.

[Rain]

3 hours ago, stemelbow said:

I don't find myself necessarily disagreeing with what you are saying.  Thanks for the comments.  i'm curious how prideful the Nephites and Lamanites thought of themselves.  I think pride is hard enough to gauge it's really God deciding what is prideful.  I'm not sure we escape it though.  It feels like we're as rich as people ever have been (both LDS and non LDS I mean).  Of course the contrast between the rich and poor today gives us quite a wealth gap. 

I would think those who are prideful don't necessarily see themselves as such.  I'm proud in a lot of ways, but I also don't feel like I'm that proud.  Maybe I am, though.  Maybe I'm the worse of offenders.

I do think knowing you are prideful is counter to being prideful at its height. Afterall, if you have the utmost pride you won't hear the Spirit letting you know you are prideful,  but I think if you are not to that point sometimes the Spirit will be able to squeeze in and let you know you have something to repent of.  I also think you can be humble enough to ask if you are prideful, and may find you are generally prideful or not. 

So do most of our people listen to the Spirit in regards to pride? 

Edited August 12, 2016 by Rain

[stemelbow]

2 minutes ago, Rain said:

I do think knowing you are prideful is counter to being prideful at its height. Afterall, if you have the utmost outside you won't hear the Spirit letting you know you are prideful,  but I think if you are not to that point sometimes the Spirit will be able to squeeze in and let you know you have something to repent of.  I also think you can be humble enough to ask if you are prideful, and may find you are generally prideful or not. 

So do most of our people listen to the Spirit in regards to pride? 

I don't know.  I'm sticking by my assessment to this point though--we're as prideful a people as there has ever been.  if so, the end of times, Jesus' second coming and prophesied destructions seem to fit.  It doesn't seem like we can stop the upcoming destruction.  Either we're not prideful enough, or we haven't done good enough work to make it come as yet. 

 

[waveslider]

I think a good gauge of how prideful we are, is if we would be willing to give up our houses and jobs, pool all our collective resources as wards and stakes, making tent city type of camps to escape a coming civil unrest, all before that unrest materialized and is therefore not expected, if the prophet were to ask us to do that tomorrow. How many would be like Nephi and follow his father/prophet's warning, or would we be more like Laman and Lemuel, just wanting to stay in our houses and enjoying our material wealth, while doubting that it could happen to such a great society as theirs?

[Gray]

3 minutes ago, waveslider said:

I think a good gauge of how prideful we are, is if we would be willing to give up our houses and jobs, pool all our collective resources as wards and stakes, making tent city type of camps to escape a coming civil unrest, all before that unrest materialized and is therefore not expected, if the prophet were to ask us to do that tomorrow. How many would be like Nephi and follow his father/prophet's warning, or would we be more like Laman and Lemuel, just wanting to stay in our houses and enjoying our material wealth, while doubting that it could happen to such a great society as theirs?

I think of prideful like this:

" a high or inordinate opinion of one's own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in bearing, conduct, etc."

I don't think it's a mark of humility that someone would be willing to pull up stakes based on faith in the prophet. It's not a mark of being prideful that I don't wire money the Nigerian Prince who has emailed me promising to repay with interest. It's a mark of trust or distrust, but I don't think pride plays into it. 

[waveslider]

2 minutes ago, Gray said:

I think of prideful like this:

" a high or inordinate opinion of one's own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in bearing, conduct, etc."

I don't think it's a mark of humility that someone would be willing to pull up stakes based on faith in the prophet. It's not a mark of being prideful that I don't wire money the Nigerian Prince who has emailed me promising to repay with interest. It's a mark of trust or distrust, but I don't think pride plays into it. 

regardless of how you believe, this could be a very real scenario in the not too distant future, with the way things are heading.

[rodheadlee]

7 hours ago, stemelbow said:

whose ever been a more proud and even more blessed people than our current LDS membership?  I don't know there's ever been such.  The pride of being one among many millions who have been blessed to live at such a time, in such a circumstance to be a part of the kingdom of God on earth?  I'm not intending to condemn us, but scripture seems to.  We learn the BoM is for our day and one main recurring theme in that book is the pride cycle, as we like to say.  A humbled people, start to receive blessings from above, due to their humility.  They then, as blessings amass, grow in pride, find themselves living in luxury.  And then finding themselves in such a blessed state they are defeated, struck down, in some way in order to be humbled again.  And then it goes again. 

Applying this on an individual level, it's hard to work out.  It's perhaps possible the most humble of individual people could be stuck in the midst of the generation of people who are generally speaking the most proud.  These process of one cycle seems to span a number of generations.  Yet, the very humblest could be faced with all kinds of tragedy and could have to suffer extremely due to the pride of their generation.  Today we may have some humble among us, I'm guessing (how the hell would I know since I'm surely amongst the proud?)...maybe if we counted up the humble it'd be a huge number.  But to our great God we are probably a pretty proud people--a people ripe for destruction.  Sure, as our prediction of the future goes, we'll find some spared to some extent, but its coming, we're told. 

It's a weird cycle of human's existence, isn't it?  Supposedly having recurred many times over the course of human existence.  It kind of makes sense to me.  Particularly today--today more than ever we should be seeing ourselves as part of a human race, brother and sister to anyone else who lives.  yet in luxury we seem to forget that.  We proudly live in ease while millions suffer seemingly needlessly.  I tend to think most of us our proud of that.  We earned it, somehow.  "We work hard" blah blah blah... The world we live is a bit cut throat in that sense.  And many of us excel in it.  Capitalism is successful because it feeds off the desire of humans who want luxury.  Our society and culture is such that the gap between those who are living in luxury and those who aren't is widening.  I wonder if that gap is larger than it's ever been.  Probably so, I can't imagine a more rich and more luxurious lifestyle. 

Sometimes I feel like a crazy guy on the street corner.  I feel like such a person has it right. I get that spirit in me.  Where I want to drop everything I'm doing and preach loudly against development and progress at the expense of the millions of others who take no part.  Other times I realize I'm just here, with everyone else, living in this crazy world.  one proud in a generation that is destined to be destroyed.  I'm probably off.  I'll probably live the rest of my life in relative ease and the destruction will come when the world is even more ripe.  I guess what I've come to conclude is there's really no escaping the outcome.  I can wiggle and whine.  I can go barefoot, leave my family and yelp into space.  It doesn't matter.  There's no stopping the coming doom.  If it comes and I'm spared, I think I'll hate myself.  Maybe that's intended.  Maybe I'm just a loon who can't figure anything out. 

How are we even living?  We're just pretending when/if we ever think we've figured it out, it seems.

I  think you have tunnel vision. The scope of your pride cycle should include the entire USA. I think if you visit some wards in Samoa, Guatemala or even Stockton, CA you will find a humble people.

Edited August 12, 2016 by rodheadlee

[Avatar4321]

4 hours ago, Rain said:

I do think the idea of "chosen" can be a problem for some. Some of the ones that don't realize that many if not all people were chosen for a time and place throughout earthly existance. 

I think we only differ on two things. 1.  I think add a people we can live with wealth and humility, though as imperfect maybe not for long. The 200 years after Christ came to America give me inkljngs of that. 

2. I'm not so sure that modern LDS are the most prideful of people. Maybe they are,  but Ive heard so pretty prideful things from history and from not LDS. 

As I read your thread I keep coming back to reading this morning about Ammon boasting. I've always wondered why he was accused of it.  This morning I started to see him how the others might have seen him.  How they could have missed that he was praising God. I do think some get prideful about being chosen, but I think sometimes we think they are prideful because we don't catch that people are praiding the plan God has for all his people.

As individuals the only thing we can do is become humble ourselves and how that spreads before we are compelled to be humble.

a few points

there are many in our society (see any political message board for example) who have more pride than the saints. That isn't to say we can't do better. But if we look at a side by side comparison, we do well as a people.

also, are we a chosen people? Or are we just a called people? Have we learned the principles of D&C 121? Do we have priesthood power as we should? I know I can do better.

[Avatar4321]

54 minutes ago, Gray said:

I think of prideful like this:

" a high or inordinate opinion of one's own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in bearing, conduct, etc."

I don't think it's a mark of humility that someone would be willing to pull up stakes based on faith in the prophet. It's not a mark of being prideful that I don't wire money the Nigerian Prince who has emailed me promising to repay with interest. It's a mark of trust or distrust, but I don't think pride plays into it. 

it is a mark of humility to give up what we have in service to the Lord. If we are more attached to things than serving God and our fellow man there is pride

[thatjimguy]

The things about the Pride Cycle is that it doesn't come around as the "red faced devil", the obvious one.

Instead, it comes about like Satan did in the Council in Heaven. I never seen him as the obvious bad guy in that meeting. Instead, like all villains, he justified his actions with believable arguments.

Our people can fall to pride, false doctrine, and all sorts of mishaps, even though they will see what they do as righteous.

I think it starts when people start to say "We can do no wrong." and stop being vigilant.

[Jeanne]

To me ..in all the corners of my world, humility is to be most admired. 

[Calm]

On August 12, 28 Heisei at 5:26 PM, thatjimguy said:

The things about the Pride Cycle is that it doesn't come around as the "red faced devil", the obvious one.

Instead, it comes about like Satan did in the Council in Heaven. I never seen him as the obvious bad guy in that meeting. Instead, like all villains, he justified his actions with believable arguments.

Our people can fall to pride, false doctrine, and all sorts of mishaps, even though they will see what they do as righteous.

I think it starts when people start to say "We can do no wrong." and stop being vigilant.

I agree with all of this save the last line.  I think there are actually few people who would assume "We can do no wrong" though there may be variations that apply that are used to justify putting the individual or group (but if group, it is usually as means for the individual to justify putting him/herself as 'always first') as completely paramount.