Popular Post Scott Lloyd Posted August 10, 2016 Popular Post Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) Exclusive op-ed piece written for Deseret News by Hillary Clinton is online now. She pushes the right buttons: religious freedom, dastardly Lilburn Boggs and his Extermination Order, etc. I'm thinking she surely had help -- from a culturally if not a locally indigenous person. Still, it's a well-crafted piece for its purpose. Edited August 10, 2016 by Scott Lloyd 6
bluebell Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 She's smart to address Utah in this way. So many republicans are terrified of trump that I think she actually has a chance to win the state. 3
hope_for_things Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 Thanks for sharing this article. Fascinating dynamics going on here within Utah and Mormon culture.
waveslider Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 With her opening statement, " I’m running for president to make sure our country continues to live up to our founding principles." I'm sure that the Utah people who fall for her hypocrisy will be complaining pretty bad when she comes after the 2nd amendment. Hopefully they see how she has twisted Trumps views to make them look far worse than they are. 3
Mark Beesley Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 17 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Exclusive op-ed piece written for Deseret News by Hillary Clinton is online now. She pushes the right buttons: religious freedom, dastardly Liburn Boggs and his Extermination Order, etc. I'm thinking she surely had help -- from a culturally if not a locally indigenous person. Still, it's a well-crafted piece for its purpose. Anybody else feel the Spirit as they read the piece? 😉 (I am fortunate not living in Utah where my vote might make a difference. In California I can vote Green without worrying about the donald winning the State.) 2
Popular Post juliann Posted August 10, 2016 Popular Post Posted August 10, 2016 I'm impressed at the effort. No other candidate has done that, usually they are saying off the cuff offensive things. It doesn't sound at all like her and I was very interested in what it said about her....but then it went into Trump bashing. I want to hear about her not Trump. Quoting our leaders....awesome. The only um moment was using "Sister." We don't even call each other that outside of Mormon circles. So it screams outsider pretending to be insider. It would certainly be nice if women had real titles for situations like this. Can't blame Hillary. Very nice effort and I appreciate it as a Mormon. 7
UtahTexan Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 If the FBI had not called her a liar, we might not know she is. Oh wait...yes, we did. 3
juliann Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 1 minute ago, CountryBoy said: If the FBI had not called her a liar, we might not know she is. Oh wait...yes, we did. Can we PLEASE discuss the content of a short newspaper article without derailing it into personal attacks about the writer and our own political leanings? Sheesh! 3
UtahTexan Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, juliann said: Can we PLEASE discuss the content of a short newspaper article without derailing it into personal attacks about the writer and our own political leanings? Sheesh! The writer is the issue. People have mentioned Trump, the Green Party, etc. What was it about my comment that was suddenly wrong? Edited August 10, 2016 by CountryBoy 1
carbon dioxide Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, waveslider said: With her opening statement, " I’m running for president to make sure our country continues to live up to our founding principles." I'm sure that the Utah people who fall for her hypocrisy will be complaining pretty bad when she comes after the 2nd amendment. Hopefully they see how she has twisted Trumps views to make them look far worse than they are. Exactly. One of the founding principles the founders spoke about over and over again is that the citizens needed to be armed. A founding principle is that the government (not Muslims or even foreign nations) at the biggest threat to liberty and the only way to keep our government from taking our freedoms away is that an armed population could rise up against the armies controlled by the government and defend themselves. That is the true militia. It has always been a truth that wherever you see a population oppressed or in bondage, its usually the government behind it. Edited August 10, 2016 by carbon dioxide 2
Buckeye Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 37 minutes ago, juliann said: I'm impressed at the effort. No other candidate has done that, usually they are saying off the cuff offensive things. It doesn't sound at all like her and I was very interested in what it said about her....but then it went into Trump bashing. I want to hear about her not Trump. Quoting our leaders....awesome. The only um moment was using "Sister." We don't even call each other that outside of Mormon circles. So it screams outsider pretending to be insider. It would certainly be nice if women had real titles for situations like this. Can't blame Hillary. Very nice effort and I appreciate it as a Mormon. I'm with you there. This felt odd at first but then I asked myself, what title should she have used for Sister Wixom? I would say 'President' would be most appropriate but that's not how the target audiences culture works. If she's called Sister Wixom by the presiding authority at general conference, why wouldn't Hillary think that was appropriate? Maybe the best course would be to use no title, but that would raise questions about diminishing Sister Wixoms official position in the church. Considering that the church itself can't even decide on what title to use for mission presidents wives, I hope people cut Hillary some slack here. 4
Scott Lloyd Posted August 10, 2016 Author Posted August 10, 2016 51 minutes ago, juliann said: I'm impressed at the effort. No other candidate has done that, usually they are saying off the cuff offensive things. It doesn't sound at all like her and I was very interested in what it said about her....but then it went into Trump bashing. I want to hear about her not Trump. Quoting our leaders....awesome. The only um moment was using "Sister." We don't even call each other that outside of Mormon circles. So it screams outsider pretending to be insider. It would certainly be nice if women had real titles for situations like this. Can't blame Hillary. Very nice effort and I appreciate it as a Mormon. At the Church News, we are instructed to use the courtesy title Sister on all references for members of female auxiliary presidencies and for the wives of General Authority and Area Seventies. It is thus the female counterpart in our church to the ecclesiastical title Elder (or Bishop). I think it was quite appropriate for Mrs. Clinton to use that title as a matter of courtesy, as I might use Reverend or some other clerical title for the leader of a church to which I did not belong. It showed good preparation and consideration by the candidate and/or her aids. Quote I'm impressed at the effort. No other candidate has done that, usually they are saying off the cuff offensive things. Actually according to the "editor's note," an op-ed piece was published last week by the LIbertarian candidate Gary Johnson. Presumably, according to the note, Donald Trump has been invited to do so as well. 4
Scott Lloyd Posted August 10, 2016 Author Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Buckeye said: I'm with you there. This felt odd at first but then I asked myself, what title should she have used for Sister Wixom? I would say 'President' would be most appropriate but that's not how the target audiences culture works. If she's called Sister Wixom by the presiding authority at general conference, why wouldn't Hillary think that was appropriate? Maybe the best course would be to use no title, but that would raise questions about diminishing Sister Wixoms official position in the church. Considering that the church itself can't even decide on what title to use for mission presidents wives, I hope people cut Hillary some slack here. See my above post. Sister is the designated title to use for members of female auxiliary presidencies and for the wives of General Authority and Area Seventies. In using that title for Sister Wixom, Mrs. Clinton showed that she had been well-briefed. And I disagree that "the Church itself can't even decide on what title to use for mission presidents' wives." It is Sister for them as well. Edited August 10, 2016 by Scott Lloyd 3
salgare Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 3 hours ago, bluebell said: She's smart to address Utah in this way. So many republicans are terrified of trump that I think she actually has a chance to win the state. agreed!
salgare Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 14 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: At the Church News, we are instructed to use the courtesy title Sister on all references for members of female auxiliary presidencies and for the wives of General Authority and Area Seventies. It is thus the female counterpart in our church to the ecclesiastical title Elder (or Bishop). I think it was quite appropriate for Mrs. Clinton to use that title as a matter of courtesy, as I might use Reverend or some other clerical title for the leader of a church to which I did not belong. It showed good preparation and consideration by the candidate and/or her aids. Actually according to the "editor's note," an op-ed piece was published last week by the LIbertarian candidate Gary Johnson. Presumably, according to the note, Donald Trump has been invited to do so as well. agreed as well (wish I could simply thumbs up)
Calm Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 1 hour ago, juliann said: I'm impressed at the effort. No other candidate has done that, usually they are saying off the cuff offensive things. It doesn't sound at all like her and I was very interested in what it said about her....but then it went into Trump bashing. I want to hear about her not Trump. Quoting our leaders....awesome. The only um moment was using "Sister." We don't even call each other that outside of Mormon circles. So it screams outsider pretending to be insider. It would certainly be nice if women had real titles for situations like this. Can't blame Hillary. Very nice effort and I appreciate it as a Mormon. It certainly shows the most caring about our opinions that I have ever seen from a nonMormon politician. I felt like it was written to Mormons though, not Utahns, but perhaps it was a valid assumption given it was Deseret News which may have a low readership of nonmembers, would be interesting to find out. It would be cool if this was the first sign of nonLDS national politicians putting effort into courting our vote and support (and perhaps even acting on commitments made) and not the last. I get tired of Utah (not Mormons) being ignored because both parties assume their votes are given to Reps on the national stage no matter what. It would be a wake up call if it didn't happen this year. 2
Calm Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) Johnson's op-ed: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865659254/EXCLUSIVE-Gary-Johnson-Religious-freedom-and-non-discrimination-laws.html?pg=all Clinton's was better at connecting, imo. Johnson is too verbose or meandering...too easy to lose the train of thought, imo. Edited August 10, 2016 by Calm
Buckeye Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: See my above post. Sister is the designated title to use for members of female auxiliary presidencies and for the wives of General Authority and Area Seventies. In using that title for Sister Wixom, Mrs. Clinton showed that she had been well-briefed. And I disagree that "the Church itself can't even decide on what title to use for mission presidents' wives." It is Sister for them as well. That may be the current practice but I've heard credible reports that the church has a committee tasked with coming up with a better title. Here's hoping they succeed. Sister is not a title that makes sense for a designation of authority, particularly when all women are given the same title just by showing up. 1
Duncan Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 I just say "Mission Presidents" as a they were or are Mission Presidents, because the wife works hard as well and hears a lot of the mission monkeybusiness
Jeanne Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 We forget that maybe her emails were the reason our board shut down.
Scott Lloyd Posted August 10, 2016 Author Posted August 10, 2016 53 minutes ago, Calm said: It certainly shows the most caring about our opinions that I have ever seen from a nonMormon politician. I felt like it was written to Mormons though, not Utahns, but perhaps it was a valid assumption given it was Deseret News which may have a low readership of nonmembers, would be interesting to find out. It would be cool if this was the first sign of nonLDS national politicians putting effort into courting our vote and support (and perhaps even acting on commitments made) and not the last. I get tired of Utah (not Mormons) being ignored because both parties assume their votes are given to Reps on the national stage no matter what. It would be a wake up call if it didn't happen this year. The Deseret News readership is still overwhelmingly LDS, though there has been some effort at outreach in recent years with the national edition. 1
bluebell Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: It is thus the female counterpart in our church to the ecclesiastical title Elder (or Bishop). If sister is the female counterpart to an ecclesiastical title such as Bishop or Elder, then what is the female counterpart for brother?
JLHPROF Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 4 hours ago, bluebell said: She's smart to address Utah in this way. So many republicans are terrified of trump that I think she actually has a chance to win the state. Nah...3rd party will be the spoiler in Utah. Johnson is upwards of 15% now and climbing. Utah is REALLY unhappy with the two main choices.
Scott Lloyd Posted August 10, 2016 Author Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) 39 minutes ago, bluebell said: If sister is the female counterpart to an ecclesiastical title such as Bishop or Elder, then what is the female counterpart for brother? In text, we don't use the title on first reference -- for males or females -- unless it's a Church leader as opposed to a rank-and-file member. For erxample, we would write "Elder M. Russell Ballard" on first reference and "Elder Ballard" on subsequent references. But I would merely be "Scott Lloyd" on first reference and "Brother Lloyd" on subsequent references. Similarly, it would be "Sister Bonnie L.. Oscarson" on first reference and "Sister Oscarson" on second reference. But a woman not in a general leadership calling or not the wife of a General Authority or mission president would not have the "Sister" in front of her name on first reference but would in subsequent references. In that sense, it's a functional counterpart, though admittedly not a perfect one. Incidentally, male members of auxiliary presidencies who are not General Authority or Area Seventies are to be addressed with the title "Brother" on all references including first references. Thus, we used to say "Elder Tad R. Callister" when he was a General Authority Seventy, but now he is "Brother Tad R. Callister" on first reference and "Brother Callister" on subsequent references. So in this sense, "Brother" and "Sister" are counterparts as pertaining to general Church auxiliary leadership. Edited August 11, 2016 by Scott Lloyd 2
bluebell Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 5 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: In text, we don't use the title on first reference -- for males or females -- unless it's a Church leader as opposed to a rank-and-file member. For erxample, we would write "Elder M. Russell Ballard" on first reference and "Elder Ballard" on subsequent references. But I would merely be "Scott Lloyd" on first reference and "Brother Lloyd" on subsequent references. Similarly, it would be "Sister Bonnie L.. Oscarson" on first reference and "Sister Oscarson" on second reference. But a woman not in a general leadership calling or not the wife of a General Authority or mission president would not have the "Sister" in front of her name on first reference but would in subsequent references. In that sense, it's a functional counterpart, though admittedly not a perfect one. Incidentally, male members of auxiliary presidencies are to be addressed with the title "Brother" on all references including first references. Thus, we used to say "Elder Tad R. Callister" when he was a General Authority Seventy, but now he is "Brother Tad R. Callister" on first reference and "Brother Callister" on subsequent references. So in this sense, "Brother" and "Sister" are counterparts as pertaining to general Church leadership. So when you said that sister was the counterpart to Elder or Bishop you meant in regards to journalism and not as far as church usage? That makes more sense.
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