stemelbow Posted May 25, 2016 Posted May 25, 2016 I gots me a question that I can't answer. Who is more uncomfortable with the other? The member towards he/she who once believed but no longer does or has voluntarily left the Church? Or The average once believer or former member towards the average member? I can't tell. Both seem awfully suspicious of each other. I think of myself somewhere in between so I seek comfort in each crews arms, if you will.
jkwilliams Posted May 25, 2016 Posted May 25, 2016 32 minutes ago, stemelbow said: I gots me a question that I can't answer. Who is more uncomfortable with the other? The member towards he/she who once believed but no longer does or has voluntarily left the Church? Or The average once believer or former member towards the average member? I can't tell. Both seem awfully suspicious of each other. I think of myself somewhere in between so I seek comfort in each crews arms, if you will. Depends on the person. I get along just fine with most members. A few people consider me evil, but I can think of a very few people I absolutely don't trust. Oddly enough some of them are ex-Mormons.
The Nehor Posted May 25, 2016 Posted May 25, 2016 I am most comfortable with the two people I have met in my life (one supposedly Mormon and one ex-Mormon) who I think are the only two people I have known in life who might qualify for eternal Outer Darkness.
Kenngo1969 Posted May 25, 2016 Posted May 25, 2016 32 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: Depends on the person. I get along just fine with most members. A few people consider me evil, but I can think of a very few people I absolutely don't trust. Oddly enough some of them are ex-Mormons. Consider you evil? Are you kidding? There's no consideration involved! You're plainly, unmistakably, self-evidently, irrefutably, incontrovertably one of the sorriest excuses for a human being who's ever walked the face of the earth, John! (In fact, to be considered human, you'd have to come up a few evolutionary steps!) I understand that even mere weeds refuse to grow within a five-mile radius of your home, and I also have it on good authority that, while you once had a pet maggot, even he found your company distasteful! Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, the Devil Himself? All mere amateurs in the game of evil compared to you, John! (In fact, doesn't the Devil have you on speed-dial?) (Can I have a teensy, weensy, itty-bitty little hint of a hint what your new book is about, John?) 2
Kenngo1969 Posted May 25, 2016 Posted May 25, 2016 17 minutes ago, The Nehor said: I am most comfortable with the two people I have met in my life (one supposedly Mormon and one ex-Mormon) who I think are the only two people I have known in life who might qualify for eternal Outer Darkness. Well, then ... You and John should get along famously!
Popular Post The Nehor Posted May 25, 2016 Popular Post Posted May 25, 2016 Did anyone else think from the thread title that it was about cheating or adultery? 6
The Nehor Posted May 25, 2016 Posted May 25, 2016 3 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said: Well, then ... You and John should get along famously! For good or ill he is not one of them. 1
jkwilliams Posted May 25, 2016 Posted May 25, 2016 23 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said: Consider you evil? Are you kidding? There's no consideration involved! You're plainly, unmistakably, self-evidently, irrefutably, incontrovertably one of the sorriest excuses for a human being who's ever walked the face of the earth, John! (In fact, to be considered human, you'd have to come up a few evolutionary steps!) I understand that even mere weeds refuse to grow within a five-mile radius of your home, and I also have it on good authority that, while you once had a pet maggot, even he found your company distasteful! Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, the Devil Himself? All mere amateurs in the game of evil compared to you, John! (In fact, doesn't the Devil have you on speed-dial?) (Can I have a teensy, weensy, itty-bitty little hint of a hint what your new book is about, John?) What can I say? I suck. I am writing a novel about the conflict between the outward persona and what's inside--and what happens when the two unexpectedly come together. 1
Guest Posted May 25, 2016 Posted May 25, 2016 I do a lot of public speaking...so I am great with crowds (to more the better), but one on one takes me out of that comfort zone. I have met via the Internet a few friends who once were members, other who still are members but no longer believe. To me all are still brothers to me, and I would do anything I could to keep that friendship. Other than family, it is... Bill (me) Theron and Keith...in a boat, on the lake fishing. The two guys that I have been friends with since the third grade. We can talk about anything at anytime, and we do. They know I am Mormon, even though we all attended Church together until two of us went into the Army. We are currently planning our day on the lake together...and we laugh together, pray together and love each other without conditions.
jkwilliams Posted May 25, 2016 Posted May 25, 2016 1 hour ago, The Nehor said: I am most comfortable with the two people I have met in my life (one supposedly Mormon and one ex-Mormon) who I think are the only two people I have known in life who might qualify for eternal Outer Darkness. I really only have 2 very close friends. One is a believing church member who works at the church office building. The other is an ex-temple worker who doesn't think very highly of the church. I love them both like brothers, and I would trust either with my life.
Stargazer Posted May 26, 2016 Posted May 26, 2016 2 hours ago, jkwilliams said: What can I say? I suck. I am writing a novel about the conflict between the outward persona and what's inside--and what happens when the two unexpectedly come together. What? The Incidental Prophet? You're giving quite a bit of it away, to start with. You write well, John, there's no question of that. I found the story and its premise too painful to keep reading, however. Perhaps I'm cheating myself out of an ultimate good read.
Jeanne Posted May 26, 2016 Posted May 26, 2016 4 hours ago, The Nehor said: Did anyone else think from the thread title that it was about cheating or adultery? I did. Thought I had stumbled on a forum called Mormon Discussions in Peyton Place! 2
rodheadlee Posted May 26, 2016 Posted May 26, 2016 6 hours ago, stemelbow said: I gots me a question that I can't answer. Who is more uncomfortable with the other? The member towards he/she who once believed but no longer does or has voluntarily left the Church? Or The average once believer or former member towards the average member? I can't tell. Both seem awfully suspicious of each other. I think of myself somewhere in between so I seek comfort in each crews arms, if you will. Neither. It varies person to person. My best friend is an anti-Mo. My other best friends are athiest, my favorite customer is Jewish. The only thing I require out of a friend is honesty. I don't discriminate other than that.
The Nehor Posted May 26, 2016 Posted May 26, 2016 4 hours ago, jkwilliams said: I really only have 2 very close friends. One is a believing church member who works at the church office building. The other is an ex-temple worker who doesn't think very highly of the church. I love them both like brothers, and I would trust either with my life. You know both of my sons of perdition?!!?!?! 1
Damien the Leper Posted May 26, 2016 Posted May 26, 2016 5 hours ago, jkwilliams said: What can I say? I suck. I am writing a novel about the conflict between the outward persona and what's inside--and what happens when the two unexpectedly come together. Ugh...I hate psychology. 1
BlueDreams Posted May 26, 2016 Posted May 26, 2016 Depends the person. The person I've experienced the most unease around was an excommunicated Mormon. But it had nothing to do with him being ex-Mormon and everything to do why he was ex'd in the first place. I've met once-Mormons that I've liked/love (my 2 cousins come to mind) and ones that I don't. I know Mormons that's I like and ones that I'm not comfortable with. It's not really about their belief structure (unless that belief is marked with rigidity, bitterness, pushiness, etc...from either side) and more to do with their character as human beings. With luv, BD 2
Johnnie Cake Posted May 26, 2016 Posted May 26, 2016 19 hours ago, stemelbow said: I gots me a question that I can't answer. Who is more uncomfortable with the other? The member towards he/she who once believed but no longer does or has voluntarily left the Church? Or The average once believer or former member towards the average member? I can't tell. Both seem awfully suspicious of each other. I think of myself somewhere in between so I seek comfort in each crews arms, if you will. It's impossible to paint with such a board brush...I've encountered Believers and ex-Mormon's who are the most wonderful people on earth. Are loving compassionate, respectful and who claim me as their friend irrespective of who I am or what I believe...and on the other hand I have encountered believers who have literally turned and walked the other way when they've seen me, are judgmental, pompous asses. And I've encountered exmormon's of the same ilk, who are boorish and caustic. So there is good and evil among both camps...just find those that love you for who you are...and stay away from the rest... 1
stemelbow Posted May 26, 2016 Author Posted May 26, 2016 6 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: It's impossible to paint with such a board brush...I've encountered Believers and ex-Mormon's who are the most wonderful people on earth. Are loving compassionate, respectful and who claim me as their friend irrespective of who I am or what I believe...and on the other hand I have encountered believers who have literally turned and walked the other way when they've seen me, are judgmental, pompous asses. And I've encountered exmormon's of the same ilk, who are boorish and caustic. So there is good and evil among both camps...just find those that love you for who you are...and stay away from the rest... I agree it's all individual. I guess that's why I started it feels like there has been some sentiment from both sides that the other side is void of seeing the obvious on this. But I wanted to add, I dont' stay away from the rest. most times those who struggle to accept me for who I am change and learn to love even me. I wonder how I'm often considered the one who others want to stay away from. Oops. Where id they get that impression? I'm the sweetest you can find.
Johnnie Cake Posted May 26, 2016 Posted May 26, 2016 (edited) 7 minutes ago, stemelbow said: I agree it's all individual. I guess that's why I started it feels like there has been some sentiment from both sides that the other side is void of seeing the obvious on this. But I wanted to add, I dont' stay away from the rest. most times those who struggle to accept me for who I am change and learn to love even me. I wonder how I'm often considered the one who others want to stay away from. Oops. Where id they get that impression? I'm the sweetest you can find. We should do lunch some time "D" unless you're afraid of me... :-) Edited May 26, 2016 by Johnnie Cake
stemelbow Posted May 26, 2016 Author Posted May 26, 2016 13 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: We should do lunch some time "D" unless you're afraid of me... :-) You mean to say this offer is rescinded if I am afraid of you? Can't we lunch even if I'm afraid? I'm all for it either way. Curious if I could still recognize you in a lineup of strangers.
The Nehor Posted May 26, 2016 Posted May 26, 2016 12 hours ago, Valentinus said: Ugh...I hate psychology. So what did your mother do to you that makes you hate psychology? 2
Jeanne Posted May 26, 2016 Posted May 26, 2016 i get a long with pretty much everybody that will still include me in their lives. Overall, I haven't changed. I don't push and I want whatever makes a person happy in their lives and if that is the church. Hooray!! My friendships and relationships with some family don't totally revolve around religion. We share so many things..memories that are still true and loving. There are some who distance me but I understand. Sometimes judgement hurts. I know that they are really not judging me on a personal level but are judging me on a spiritual level..I try to take that as that they just care about me. I love my heritage ..and I love my life now. I find myself only uncomfortable when I know that they are uncomfortable. Still trying to fix that. 2
smac97 Posted May 26, 2016 Posted May 26, 2016 (edited) I have no qualms with people who leave the Church. While I hope they return, I do not begrudge them their personal choices. But as the saying goes, some can leave the Church, but they can't leave it alone. And although some lip service is paid to "mutual respect," this concept is apparently easier said than done. For example, Kate Kelly has recently made public statements that people who leave the Church should interact with Church members with "mutual respect." But she then proceeds to accuse the Church of all sorts of horrible things. She says that the women on the stand during General Conference are "completely sexualized objects which are only for reproduction," and that their appearance during General Conference "is porn{ography}." She relates a story about how she heard someone once characterize Heavenly Mother as "a jerk" who "totally abandoned all of her children." And she suggests that if she ever gets married again, she might have a service where there is someone at the door who is checking for people with temple recommends and turning them away and not allowed in because they are not "worthy." She then said that this behavior would be "sociopathic," and that "all Mormons" do it, so she wants to reciprocate. These are all statements she has made publicly. To the world. About us. Perhaps you can conceive of why faithful Latter-day Saints might be a bit uncomfortable with someone who publicly says such intentionally profane and offensive things about their sacred beliefs? Thanks, -Smac Edited May 26, 2016 by smac97 2
stemelbow Posted May 26, 2016 Author Posted May 26, 2016 1 hour ago, smac97 said: I have no qualms with people who leave the Church. While I hope they return, I do not begrudge them their personal choices. But as the saying goes, some can leave the Church, but they can't leave it alone. And although some lip service is paid to "mutual respect," this concept is apparently easier said than done. For example, Kate Kelly has recently made public statements that people who leave the Church should interact with Church members with "mutual respect." But she then proceeds to accuse the Church of all sorts of horrible things. She says that the women on the stand during General Conference are "completely sexualized objects which are only for reproduction," and that their appearance during General Conference "is porn{ography}." She relates a story about how she heard someone once characterize Heavenly Mother as "a jerk" who "totally abandoned all of her children." And she suggests that if she ever gets married again, she might have a service where there is someone at the door who is checking for people with temple recommends and turning them away and not allowed in because they are not "worthy." She then said that this behavior would be "sociopathic," and that "all Mormons" do it, so she wants to reciprocate. These are all statements she has made publicly. To the world. About us. Perhaps you can conceive of why faithful Latter-day Saints might be a bit uncomfortable with someone who publicly says such intentionally profane and offensive things about their sacred beliefs? Thanks, -Smac Oh I certainly do get that. I haven't followed ms. Kelly as much so I can't confirm what you say she has said, but if she said these things it mostly comes off as laughable. I would probably just view her as a little crazy and probably not worth taking her seriously about this stuff, which I guess would introduce discomfort. Anyway, thanks for the thoughts.
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