Did your sacrament meeting avoid mentioning Easter too?

[Tacenda]

1 minute ago, Okrahomer said:

Where does one learn about Jesus?  How would you change the current LDS Sunday School curriculum to achieve your goal of helping Mormons learn more about His life?  Does it involve the Bible at all?

Sure, what do think?  

[Bobbieaware]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

This makes me want to attend several LDS Easter services next year and see if it's just my ward, of course this year they may have done marvelously, I wasn't in attendance.  Next year I should go to the three usual times in most stakes in Utah, 9, 11, and 1 time slots.  Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.  What I really think is needed, is more Sunday School classes on His life.  There are so many details being left out when our course of study has to be spread out to include much more than just study of Him.  

I hope you're joking. But if not, I find it really odd that you seem to be actually contemplating taking the extraordinary step of attending three separate sacrament meetings (when -- apparently -- you weren't at all motivated to attend even one Easter Sunday sacrament service this year). And all this just to see if you can "catch" the three bishops in the act of not being sure to sufficiently honor Christ's resurrection on Easter Sunday. Please tell me you were only being silly?

 

Edited March 29, 2016 by Bobbieaware

[Okrahomer]

50 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Sure, what do think?  

I don't know if you caught this part from the Pew study, so I'll repeat it here:

"On questions about Christianity – including a battery of questions about the Bible – Mormons (7.9 out of 12 right on average) and white evangelical Protestants (7.3 correct on average) show the highest levels of knowledge."

So I guess, I'm puzzled by your claim that LDS Sunday Schools need to change in order to teach more about  the Life of Jesus.  Why do you say they are failing, when the only metrics we have seem to indicate they do a better job of educating than other Christian systems?  I'm wanting to understand how you would change the current curriculum.  For me, the current curriculum is fine.  Perhaps sometimes teaching methods could be better, but I don't understand what you would change about the curriculum.  Would you only teach from the Bible and forget about the other standard works, or would you take a new approach?  I'm a Primary teacher.  We teach directly from the life of the Savior every week.  So, how would you change that?

2 Nephi 25:26  "And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins."

Edited March 29, 2016 by Okrahomer
grammar

[3DOP]

17 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

Hello Rory, 

I think it is worth letting this one go and ignore the situation.  It is not helpful to you or anyone else.

I am quite fond of your contributions on this Board and have always enjoyed them.  It is my prayer and hope that your Easter celebration was a spiritual feast for you and your family.  There are so many different things that we can each learn from other faith traditions and cultures.  I always appreciated the concept of the Holy Season of Lent prior to Easter as celebrated by Catholics (Eastern and Western traditions).  This is something I would like to see our church expand or grow into.  

When there are such ample number of negative examples in the world, we should do as Brigham Young encouraged us - to seek out all truth and claim it as our own.  Culture and celebrations are not the equal of truth, but we can still learn a great deal from them.

May his Spirit abide with you always,

Michael

Sigh...I appreciate the friendly persuasion Michael. Your advice is well taken.

My apologies to everyone and especially to videogamejunkie to whom my antagonism was primarily directed.

Scott, thanks for your defense of my position again below. I don't think Storm Rider disagrees with you and I. But I think he perceived that my heart wasn't in the right place last night. If truth is proclaimed with a mean spirit, falsehood is the winner.

Regards to all,

Rory

[Scott Lloyd]

44 minutes ago, 3DOP said:

Sigh...I appreciate the friendly persuasion Michael. Your advice is well taken.

My apologies to everyone and especially to videogamejunkie to whom my antagonism was primarily directed.

Scott, thanks for your defense of my position again below. I don't think Storm Rider disagrees with you and I. But I think he perceived that my heart wasn't in the right place last night. If truth is proclaimed with a mean spirit, falsehood is the winner.

Regards to all,

Rory

I hadn't perceived you as being mean-spirited, but, of course, you know your own heart better than I.

 

[Scott Lloyd]

5 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I've heard many stories from this past Sunday of people disappointed in the lack of Easter focus. I've heard of talks about keeping the Sabbath day holy. I heard one friend share about talks on tithing. It would be foolish to think this thread represents the entire church. I merely shared my experience and things I've heard from friends in the past couple of days. That also doesn't represent the entire church.

What is irritating is people who act like it is unfathomable that many wards across the church had little to no Easter focus. It would be equally foolish to say that no ward had an easter focus. Our experiences are all limited and it seems safest to me to accept that there are many wards in which Easter was a focus while simultaneously accepting that there are many wards in which Easter was NOT a focus.

BTW- "A common occurrence" does not mean "THE" singular experience of the entire church. There can be multiple "common occurrences."

 

Frame of reference and expectations make a great deal of difference. Some who are antipathetic to uniquely LDS doctrines might be apt to be disgusted by promulgation of such doctrines on Easter Sunday, thinking the fare that is served up on that day ought to be generically Christian. Such folks, I suppose, would be those who would be more apt to complain about lack of an Easter focus.

Of course, in an LDS paradigm, any doctrine taught, revealed or inspired by Christ is inseparable from the gospel of Christ, be it tithing, sabbath observance or whatever.

[Tacenda]

4 hours ago, Okrahomer said:

I don't know if you caught this part from the Pew study, so I'll repeat it here:

"On questions about Christianity – including a battery of questions about the Bible – Mormons (7.9 out of 12 right on average) and white evangelical Protestants (7.3 correct on average) show the highest levels of knowledge."

So I guess, I'm puzzled by your claim that LDS Sunday Schools need to change in order to teach more about  the Life of Jesus.  Why do you say they are failing, when the only metrics we have seem to indicate they do a better job of educating than other Christian systems?  I'm wanting to understand how you would change the current curriculum.  For me, the current curriculum is fine.  Perhaps sometimes teaching methods could be better, but I don't understand what you would change about the curriculum.  Would you only teach from the Bible and forget about the other standard works, or would you take a new approach?  I'm a Primary teacher.  We teach directly from the life of the Savior every week.  So, how would you change that?

2 Nephi 25:26  "And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins."

Because it seems we jump all over the Bible scriptures during the NT and OT years.  But I'm not a Bible scholar, but hear often that we don't know certain details.  I wish I had a set of the questions asked in the poll.  But I've been out of the loop for several years now, being in the Primary so it's hopefully better.  Sorry to have even brought it up.  

[Okrahomer]

5 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Because it seems we jump all over the Bible scriptures during the NT and OT years.  But I'm not a Bible scholar, but hear often that we don't know certain details.  I wish I had a set of the questions asked in the poll.  But I've been out of the loop for several years now, being in the Primary so it's hopefully better.  Sorry to have even brought it up.  

I hope it doesn't seem that I'm attacking--I'm not.  I'm trying to understand what you think is lacking.  I guess what you mean is that switching from one standard work to the next destroys continuity?  Fair enough; although, Pew data (as noted) indicates the LDS approach actually yields better results.

[danielwoods]

5 hours ago, Okrahomer said:

I don't know if you caught this part from the Pew study, so I'll repeat it here:

"On questions about Christianity – including a battery of questions about the Bible – Mormons (7.9 out of 12 right on average) and white evangelical Protestants (7.3 correct on average) show the highest levels of knowledge."

So I guess, I'm puzzled by your claim that LDS Sunday Schools need to change in order to teach more about  the Life of Jesus.  Why do you say they are failing, when the only metrics we have seem to indicate they do a better job of educating than other Christian systems?  I'm wanting to understand how you would change the current curriculum.  For me, the current curriculum is fine.  Perhaps sometimes teaching methods could be better, but I don't understand what you would change about the curriculum.  Would you only teach from the Bible and forget about the other standard works, or would you take a new approach?  I'm a Primary teacher.  We teach directly from the life of the Savior every week.  So, how would you change that?

2 Nephi 25:26  "And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins."

There is a total of 5 questions about the Bible. As a survey of Bible knowledge this survey isn't that. Rather, it's a survey of "U.S. Religious Knowledge" and that's it. 

To take the quiz and see where you fall, and how deep those bible questions are:  Quiz: U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey

To read all the questions (page 21 starts with bible questions): http://www.pewforum.org/files/2010/09/religious-knowledge-questionnaire.pdf

 

Edited to ad, I found it strange that they only wanted to speak to the youngest adult of a household... 

"For the landline sample, half of the time interviewers asked to speak with the youngest adult male currently at home and the other half of the time asked to speak with the youngest adult female currently at home. "

 

Edited March 29, 2016 by danielwoods

[Okrahomer]

1 hour ago, danielwoods said:

There is a total of 5 questions about the Bible. As a survey of Bible knowledge this survey isn't that. Rather, it's a survey of "U.S. Religious Knowledge" and that's it. 

To take the quiz and see where you fall, and how deep those bible questions are:  Quiz: U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey

To read all the questions (page 21 starts with bible questions): http://www.pewforum.org/files/2010/09/religious-knowledge-questionnaire.pdf

 

Edited to ad, I found it strange that they only wanted to speak to the youngest adult of a household... 

"For the landline sample, half of the time interviewers asked to speak with the youngest adult male currently at home and the other half of the time asked to speak with the youngest adult female currently at home. "

 

I've actually spoken with the folks at Pew. They know their stuff, and take their jobs very seriously.  They don't make these extrapolations without solid statistical logic.

Regarding the survey going through the youngest adult in the home, I guess this just means that the LDS young adults are a little more knowledgeable than the other groups.  As I said:. The evidence indicates that the LDS curriculum yields better results.

[Tacenda]

9 hours ago, Bobbieaware said:

I hope you're joking. But if not, I find it really odd that you seem to be actually contemplating taking the extraordinary step of attending three separate sacrament meetings (when -- apparently -- you weren't at all motivated to attend even one Easter Sunday sacrament service this year). And all this just to see if you can "catch" the three bishops in the act of not being sure to sufficiently honor Christ's resurrection on Easter Sunday. Please tell me you were only being silly?

 

No, not silly just mentally unstable sometimes. 

[danielwoods]

3 hours ago, Okrahomer said:

I've actually spoken with the folks at Pew. They know their stuff, and take their jobs very seriously.  They don't make these extrapolations without solid statistical logic.

Regarding the survey going through the youngest adult in the home, I guess this just means that the LDS young adults are a little more knowledgeable than the other groups.  As I said:. The evidence indicates that the LDS curriculum yields better results.

Indeed about general religious knowledge that is true. Not necessarily so about bible knowledge, because the survey certainly didn't test for that. 

[Stargazer]

On 3/28/2016 at 6:44 PM, 3DOP said:

I don't understand how a Mormon can be upset with their leadership for failing to follow the leadership of the Roman Church or any of the other Unrestored Churches on when or how to celebrate the Lord's Birth, Death,or Resurrection. There is no universal agreement regarding the correct dates for any of the events. I do not think I have heard of a man more universally disliked by Mormons than Constantine. But he is the one of the main authorities who attempted to arrive at uniformity about the date for Easter observance. What makes you inclined to follow Constantine on the question of the date for Easter observance? Why don't you just follow the living Apostles in Salt Lake City you say you believe in, and celebrate what, and how, and when they say to celebrate?

Interesting points!  But they don't dictate any particular form of celebration.

What I want for "Easter" is a meeting heavy with the love of Christ, His resurrection, and His atonement.  

But there is nothing in scripture that requires or even suggests "celebrating" Easter.  The Church itself does not dictate any kind of program of celebration.  As you can see, there is quite a diversity of practice as to Easter in the LDS congregations.  But what VideoGameJunkie is referring to has nothing to do with following Constantine's dictates, and everything to do with remembering the Lord and what He did for us, and at what great pain and sacrifice!  

Now, the LDS Church did provide a concert consisting of Handel's Messiah -- it was performed on March 24 and 25 in the Mormon Tabernacle!  It is currently available online for listening until midnight on April 4.  I'm not actually sure if it's the entire Messiah, or just a selection, but I think it's the whole shebang.  Here's the link: http://www.mormontabernaclechoir.org/messiah.html?cid-Motab.org/messiahHP_FR_3-25-2016_dMOTAB_fMOTAB_xLIDyL2-2_  Note that it will go away at midnight on April 4.

 

[Stargazer]

On 3/28/2016 at 6:44 PM, 3DOP said:

I don't understand how a Mormon can be upset with their leadership for failing to follow the leadership of the Roman Church or any of the other Unrestored Churches on when or how to celebrate the Lord's Birth, Death,or Resurrection. There is no universal agreement regarding the correct dates for any of the events. I do not think I have heard of a man more universally disliked by Mormons than Constantine. But he is the one of the main authorities who attempted to arrive at uniformity about the date for Easter observance. What makes you inclined to follow Constantine on the question of the date for Easter observance? Why don't you just follow the living Apostles in Salt Lake City you say you believe in, and celebrate what, and how, and when they say to celebrate?

LOL!  Just to make you feel better about it, Rory, I do have no small degree of ill-will concerning the Emperor Constantine!  I may be in a singularly small class on that score, however!  

[Stargazer]

On 3/28/2016 at 9:55 PM, VideoGameJunkie said:

Happy Easter everyone! Sorry for the offensive photo.

No, that was funny!  It might be a tad off-kilter, but funny nevertheless!

[Bobbieaware]

42 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

No, not silly just mentally unstable sometimes. 

LOL! At least you're honest. And believe me, I can relate.

[HappyJackWagon]

17 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Frame of reference and expectations make a great deal of difference. Some who are antipathetic to uniquely LDS doctrines might be apt to be disgusted by promulgation of such doctrines on Easter Sunday, thinking the fare that is served up on that day ought to be generically Christian. Such folks, I suppose, would be those who would be more apt to complain about lack of an Easter focus.

Of course, in an LDS paradigm, any doctrine taught, revealed or inspired by Christ is inseparable from the gospel of Christ, be it tithing, sabbath observance or whatever.

And this is why the church sometimes struggles with Easter. There is a very specific event being celebrated on Easter. There are specific doctrines, like the resurrection, that is a core tenet of the faith and is based on the Easter story. So taking Easter and talking about tithing instead of the crucifixion and resurrection is a missed opportunity to focus on core doctrines on a day when the rest of the Christian world recognizes the significance of Jesus and this particular story. Is it reasonable for the church to teach about keeping the Sabbath day holy, tithing, priesthood, temples, word of wisdom etc? Of course it is. But there is 1 Sunday a year (EASTER) when the focus should absolutely be on the death, resurrection and atonement of Jesus. When we go to Easter worship and don't get that...well...it's disappointing. But I guess desiring more talk about the fundamental principles of the gospel and Jesus Christ makes me a complainer.

Quote

The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it.

History of the Church, 3:30.

 

[Tacenda]

7 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

And this is why the church sometimes struggles with Easter. There is a very specific event being celebrated on Easter. There are specific doctrines, like the resurrection, that is a core tenet of the faith and is based on the Easter story. So taking Easter and talking about tithing instead of the crucifixion and resurrection is a missed opportunity to focus on core doctrines on a day when the rest of the Christian world recognizes the significance of Jesus and this particular story. Is it reasonable for the church to teach about keeping the Sabbath day holy, tithing, priesthood, temples, word of wisdom etc? Of course it is. But there is 1 Sunday a year (EASTER) when the focus should absolutely be on the death, resurrection and atonement of Jesus. When we go to Easter worship and don't get that...well...it's disappointing. But I guess desiring more talk about the fundamental principles of the gospel and Jesus Christ makes me a complainer.

 

How come I fail at putting into words how I feel, you did it so eloquently here!!