Avatar4321 Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 So it's pride to believe we are joint heirs with Christ? It's pride to believe the scriptures which clearly teach we existed before we were born? It's pride to believe the Holy Spirit? And BTW you still aren't answering a single CFR.
savedwheat Posted January 24, 2016 Author Posted January 24, 2016 It's pride to think you always existed alongside God when in reality you were created by God from whence you did not exist before. Nothing in Scripture says you existed before you were born; that would explain why you can't remember. You call the spirit you follow holy, but I see it as evil since it teaches you that Jesus didn't create all things; so you have a lesser Jesus atonement, thus keeps you unsaved.
Avatar4321 Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 So you aren't going to address anything... Disappointing
mikegriffith1 Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) Mormons teach that Christ created all things except when it came time to create Adam and Eve. The Father created Adam and Eve, but Christ created everything before that. Which Father do you think is more admirable: one who wants his children to enjoy all the powers and blessings that he has and who has arranged a way for those who never heard of him to have a chance to hear about him and accept or reject him, or, one who created us to worship him, who has no intention of having us every attain his status, and who consigns to hell people who never even knew he existed? I find the LDS doctrine of God and man's potential to be like him uplifting and logical. What father doesn't want his children to have all that he has? Do you want your kids to have less than you have? Edited January 24, 2016 by mikegriffith1 1
BlueDreams Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) 9 hours ago, savedwheat said: 1 Tim. 6.16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen. Alone only same dif. Neh. 9.5 everlasting to everlasting. Most versions agree. KJV got it wrong. Your interpretation of immorality and alone make no sense. First off immortality is mentioned 5 Times In the NT. the other 4 also refer to us (mankind) receiving immortality and eternal life through Christ. In the context of these, Him having immortality alone would point to the fundamental doctrine that only through Christ are we saved... It does not lend credence to your interpretation. Because if it did and having immortality meant living forever without beginning or end then it means that Christ can give us this gift of living forever without beginning or end. Which would mean we can somehow obtain no beginning. Ie. Some part of us had to exist without end for that to happen. Ergo it's not pride to believe so, it's written in the bible itself...you've just chosen a different lens to interpret it. The 4 other verses include: Romans 2:7, 1 Cor 15:43-54, 1 Tim 1:16-17, 2 Timothy 1:10. the only thing that feels like pride here is the audacity of asserting what we LDS believe or don't even after we have stated that we don't. Kinda prideful to assume you know enough about us as a group to label our individual hearts/souls as prideful, compare us to God-usurpers, and deny our most basic belief which is that we are saved only through the merits and being that is Christ. With luv, bd Edited January 24, 2016 by BlueDreams 3
thesometimesaint Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 11 hours ago, savedwheat said: Jesus created all things the Bible says so there can't be something beside God before time and space. In Christianity "little flock "(Luke 12.32) are saved only. I feel pride thinking I always existed. I think that's what Satan wants people to believe they always existed to feed their pride. Obsession or idol. Did Jesus create God?
busybee Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 16 hours ago, savedwheat said: Nothing beside God so God alone. Since Jesus is God and Father is God they are one being. Jesus created all things so completely alone. First time God created, first time time began. It's irrelevant if He created another timeline for something else as that would be meaningless speculation. I see no scriptural references here. You cannot just quote your own gibberish when called on for references!! This is like debating with... never mind!!
busybee Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 16 hours ago, savedwheat said: Yes the BofM is wrong sometimes and right other times. For example what was suppose to be written in 600 BC is directly quoting the KJV which is impossible timewise. So why don't you believe the BofM when it says Jesus created all things? Will someone please come and put me out of my misery!!!
busybee Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 16 hours ago, savedwheat said: Actually Smith is caught quoting Peter quoting Moses not quoting Moses. There is about 30 examples of this fraud in various quotes that could not have been known in 600 BC. The Bible says Jesus created all things; BofM says Jesus created all things, so why do you reject it? Do you think that by making the same unsubstantiated claims over and over and over ad nauseum, that you Are eventually going to wear us down and make us agree with you. Is that your aim. Let me say this slowly... WE BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS THE CREATOR OF ALL THINGS. Hope that cleared it up for you.
Calm Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 1 hour ago, busybee said: Will someone please come and put me out of my misery!!! Wouldn't that make your misery eternal?
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 9 hours ago, BlueDreams said: Your interpretation of immorality and alone make no sense. First off immortality is mentioned 5 Times In the NT. the other 4 also refer to us (mankind) receiving immortality and eternal life through Christ. In the context of these, Him having immortality alone would point to the fundamental doctrine that only through Christ are we saved... It does not lend credence to your interpretation. Because if it did and having immortality meant living forever without beginning or end then it means that Christ can give us this gift of living forever without beginning or end. Which would mean we can somehow obtain no beginning. Ie. Some part of us had to exist without end for that to happen. Ergo it's not pride to believe so, it's written in the bible itself...you've just chosen a different lens to interpret it. The 4 other verses include: Romans 2:7, 1 Cor 15:43-54, 1 Tim 1:16-17, 2 Timothy 1:10. the only thing that feels like pride here is the audacity of asserting what we LDS believe or don't even after we have stated that we don't. Kinda prideful to assume you know enough about us as a group to label our individual hearts/souls as prideful, compare us to God-usurpers, and deny our most basic belief which is that we are saved only through the merits and being that is Christ. With luv, bd In the beginning only God had immortality so none beside Him. Thus, He was alone from everlasting.
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 12 hours ago, mikegriffith1 said: Mormons teach that Christ created all things except when it came time to create Adam and Eve. The Father created Adam and Eve, but Christ created everything before that. Which Father do you think is more admirable: one who wants his children to enjoy all the powers and blessings that he has and who has arranged a way for those who never heard of him to have a chance to hear about him and accept or reject him, or, one who created us to worship him, who has no intention of having us every attain his status, and who consigns to hell people who never even knew he existed? I find the LDS doctrine of God and man's potential to be like him uplifting and logical. What father doesn't want his children to have all that he has? Do you want your kids to have less than you have? No exceptions. Jesus created ALL THINGS
JLHPROF Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 14 minutes ago, savedwheat said: No exceptions. Jesus created ALL THINGS Nonsensical.
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 "For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him" (Col. 1.16). So let me walk you through this. You die. Let's say the end of the Tribulation + 1000 years takes us to the year 3030. You will be resurrected 3030. You come before the GWT. Jesus will be standing before you since the Father is invisible. Jesus say "I never knew you because I told you that I created all things and you would not listen." You respond, "You must be an imposter, I reject you". Then Jesus shows you the hallway to Hell. You walk down that hallway of your own accord, open the door, go through and lock it from the inside so you can't get out. You know you will never change your mind.
busybee Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 38 minutes ago, Calm said: Wouldn't that make your misery eternal? Oh!! Ooops
Raingirl Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 18 minutes ago, savedwheat said: "For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him" (Col. 1.16). So let me walk you through this. You die. Let's say the end of the Tribulation + 1000 years takes us to the year 3030. You will be resurrected 3030. You come before the GWT. Jesus will be standing before you since the Father is invisible. Jesus say "I never knew you because I told you that I created all things and you would not listen." You respond, "You must be an imposter, I reject you". Then Jesus shows you the hallway to Hell. You walk down that hallway of your own accord, open the door, go through and lock it from the inside so you can't get out. You know you will never change your mind. How does that work, exactly? Does he borrow Harry Potter's invisibility cloak?
JLHPROF Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 6 minutes ago, savedwheat said: "For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him" (Col. 1.16). And the things outside of the heavens and earth? The universe is infinite after all. Seems like a pretty good waste of space if this earth is the only creation God ever bothered with. Quote So let me walk you through this. You die. Let's say the end of the Tribulation + 1000 years takes us to the year 3030. You will be resurrected 3030. You come before the GWT. Jesus will be standing before you since the Father is invisible. Jesus say "I never knew you because I told you that I created all things and you would not listen." Abraham saw the Father, at least twice - Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. Gen 18:1 And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; Stephen believed this - Acts 7:2 And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran, And as a result also saw the Father and Son together - Acts 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. God himself confirmed that he appeared to man - Exodus 6 - 2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord: 3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them. Quote You respond, "You must be an imposter, I reject you". Then Jesus shows you the hallway to Hell. You walk down that hallway of your own accord, open the door, go through and lock it from the inside so you can't get out. You know you will never change your mind. I could ask you the same thing when you stand before Christ and his Father and are judged, and Christ says "I gave you knowledge of the restored gospel and the path back into my presence, and you rejected it in favor of the false creeds and traditions of wicked men." At least in our theology you can achieve Terrestrial glory if you live an honorable life...
Zakuska Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 51 minutes ago, savedwheat said: No exceptions. Jesus created ALL THINGS God created Jesus. So ALL things isn't really ALL things.
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 The universe did not always exist. It was created remember. What Abraham saw was the pre incarnate Christ. "No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known" (John 1.18). Only God can see God the Father. Hence, the Trinity. Proves the Trinity then. The gospel is in the word of God. There is nothing to restore. Jesus is only 1/3 God, fullness of the Godhead bodily. So when Jesus created all things, it is the Godhead creating all things. Jesus doesn't create the other 2/3 of God.
Zakuska Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 29 minutes ago, savedwheat said: Jesus will be standing before you since the Father is invisible. If the Father is invisible... how was Jesus able to See him? John 6 46Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
JLHPROF Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 4 minutes ago, savedwheat said: The universe did not always exist. It was created remember. What makes you think there's only one universe? There are multiple star systems within multiple galaxies within multiple universes. What Abraham saw was the pre incarnate Christ. "No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known" (John 1.18). Only God can see God the Father. Hence, the Trinity. And Stephen who saw them both side by side as clearly recorded in the Bible? The gospel is in the word of God. There is nothing to restore. So God has nothing else to say to his creations?
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 1 hour ago, Zakuska said: If the Father is invisible... how was Jesus able to See him? John 6 46Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Because Jesus is the 2nd Person of the Trinity.
Anakin7 Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Yes the 2nd person of The Anchient Monarch/Eastern/EconomicSocial Godhead Trinity. Thank you. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 It's not monarchial. Before time and space the Trinity was alone from everlasting, nothing beside, and each Person co-equal. There is no Father or Son before time and space. These were manifested four benefit.
Zakuska Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) 14 minutes ago, savedwheat said: Because Jesus is the 2nd Person of the Trinity. Yes he is, but that doesn't explain how he was able to "see" a man you claimed is invisible. Edited January 25, 2016 by Zakuska
Recommended Posts