Avatar4321 Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 10 hours ago, savedwheat said: "God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth" (John 4.24). You can't see spirit. Our spirit has the functions of intuition, communion and conscience which you can't see. Remember Mormons bring in the heretical doctrine 18 centuries later that God once was a man. The central tenant of Christianity is that God became a man to atone for our sins. That is the good news the gospel teaches. I'm sorry you reject that. And your wresting that scripture, toaccept your interpretation we would have to conclude that in order to worship God we need to leave our bodies. I don't think Jesus is saying that at all.
Avatar4321 Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 10 hours ago, Zakuska said: If "spirits" can't bee seen...how was Job able to see one? 15 Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up: And thank you for quoting John 4:24... Christ is "spirit" too yet we can see him too. And why did the disciples keep thinking they were seeing spirits when Jesus did certain miracles?
Avatar4321 Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 4 hours ago, savedwheat said: Whatever you think you were made up for eternity in the past Jesus still created it because He created all things. Therefore, you did not always. Time to get off your high horse. I don't see how we are on a high horse for believing Jesus and the scriptures. We believe that Jesus created all things. Likewise we believe He is the Firstborn of all creation as the scriptures say. And this isn't a contradiction.
Anakin7 Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) Spitit is matter only on a much higher level. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited January 25, 2016 by Anakin7
busybee Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 13 hours ago, savedwheat said: No exceptions. Jesus created ALL THINGS So Jesus created God?? His Father??? Oh I would really like to know how that came about!!
Anakin7 Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) Did he create his physical body ?. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited January 25, 2016 by Anakin7 1
busybee Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 11 hours ago, savedwheat said: Because Jesus is the 2nd Person of the Trinity. SO he was looking in the mirror?
Anakin7 Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 He is the 2nd person of the Anchient Monarch Eastern Economic Social Godhead/Trinity as proclaimed by True LDS. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
busybee Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 11 hours ago, savedwheat said: This was not originally in the Trinity. The Trinity was not originally in anything. It was made up by men intent on keeping God a mystery from the ordinary man so that they could maintain power and control over the people. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is beautiful in it's simplicity. Our Father in Heaven WANTS us to know Him and become like Him.
savedwheat Posted January 26, 2016 Author Posted January 26, 2016 Since Jesus is I AM and the Father is I AM and the Bible says God is alone from everlasting that's how you get the Trinity. Pretty simple.
Anakin7 Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 The Bible says in John 8:58 that Jesus is the I AM cf Exodus 3:14 In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
JLHPROF Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 18 minutes ago, savedwheat said: Since Jesus is I AM and the Father is I AM and the Bible says God is alone from everlasting that's how you get the Trinity. Pretty simple. That's how you get the trinity. That's not how everyone gets the trinity. That's not even how the Bible describes the trinity/Godhead. 2
Avatar4321 Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 27 minutes ago, savedwheat said: Since Jesus is I AM and the Father is I AM and the Bible says God is alone from everlasting that's how you get the Trinity. Pretty simple. problem with that is the Father never claimed to be I Am.
savedwheat Posted January 26, 2016 Author Posted January 26, 2016 "God said to Moses, I AM" (Ex. 3.14).
Anakin7 Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 savedwheat will not tell us which form/model of the trinity is the one he believes in, he just says the Biblical one. But there is - western/eastern/economic/essentia/social/Bultman.
Anakin7 Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 Yes Exodus 3:14 which Jesus quoted in John 8:58 and said that HE was Yahweh in Exodus 3:14. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 1
Avatar4321 Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 59 minutes ago, savedwheat said: "God said to Moses, I AM" (Ex. 3.14). Which Weve already established is Jesus and not the Father
savedwheat Posted January 26, 2016 Author Posted January 26, 2016 1 hour ago, Anakin7 said: Yes Exodus 3:14 which Jesus quoted in John 8:58 and said that HE was Yahweh in Exodus 3:14. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Amen.
Guest Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 On January 24, 2016 at 10:33 PM, savedwheat said: Why are Mormons obsessed with believing they always existed alongside God? The feeling that comes over me is I feel pride if that were true and it is not a good feeling. I prefer the humility of accepting that God was alone from everlasting in His Triune nature. And the second part of that question is why do Mormons reject Jesus created all things? I think these are the two foundational questions that really need to be addressed. Then you have to talk about are you going to be a god of a planet or not? Some Mormons are into that some not. So I assume that's why they break off into 150 different sects of Mormonism. If I can show you Rev. 2 & 3 is the 7 church periods will you reject the idea that the church disappeared for 1800 years? We do believe that God the Father sent him to create all things. Under the direction of the Father...did indeed create all things just as scriptures says. Here is a second time you have painted Mormons with a very broad bruss.
savedwheat Posted January 26, 2016 Author Posted January 26, 2016 Since Jesus created all things then there is nothing beside God before time and space.
Calm Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, savedwheat said: Since Jesus created all things then there is nothing beside God before time and space. Did you answer a question I had a day or two ago on whether or not you see God as changing? You said if I recall correctly that Jesus became the Son as the Father became the Father and they were not the Father and the Son before Christ created, etc. Here is what you said "The Trinity originally is 3 Persons not Father, Son, Spirit. Father, Son and Spirit are agreed in the council of the Godhead for our benefit for eternity." So the three persons of the trinity took on the roles of Father, Son and Spirit...I assume you see them as roles, right? Do you see this as a change or not and if not, why not. If I understand the Nicene creed correctly, it states one of the Persons who is/are God was always the Father, one was always the Son ("the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father") and one always the Spirit. Hopefully if I am wrong, a creedal Christian (by that I mean someone who is a believer in the creed) will correct me. Edited January 26, 2016 by Calm
Calm Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 On January 25, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Raingirl said: But you just said "There is no Father or Son before time and space". If God the Father and his son, Jesus Christ, did not exist before time and space - I ask again - who created time and space? Do you not believe the words you write? Do you not understand the words you write? Did this get cleared up for you, Raingirl? If I understand him correctly, he is saying that the Person who became the Father in the council of the Godhead along with the Persons that became the Son and the Spirit all existed before Time and Space and the Person who became the Son, Jesus Christ created time and space. Saved, please speak up if I have misunderstood you. Thanks. Brings up another question: Did the Council occur before or after time and space was created? It makes sense to me to have it before time and space was created as there the decision to create time and space and assume the roles of Father, Son and Spirit were decided, but that might not be your actual belief. Can a Council logically take place when time and space do not exist is one problem.
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