HappyJackWagon Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 43 minutes ago, Ahab said: The error is in the idea of getting "your own" planet, as if it is only yours and nobody else's. Any planet you get will still be what our Father has, too, and what Jesus has, too, and what everybody else also has who shares in all that our Father and Lord both have. Let it sink in! I'm trying to let it all sink in. I'm thinking...thinking...thinking...ok. I think I got it. That was hard. This is silly quibbling, Ahab. If I say I live in my own house it's not precisely accurate because I make payments to the bank and my family lives with me, meaning it is neither completely mine and I am not alone. But the understanding is that I have a home I'm responsible for. Likewise if I have my own planet, galaxy, universe...whatever, it would mean that thing is my stewardship. In this case the Father would allow me to organize worlds and spirit children. Does that mean it's His? I don't know. It's kind of like saying that because the government allows me to buy a home and allows me to have children that they also belong to the government. (very sorry to compare God to the government but I hope you can see the point) 2
The Nehor Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 3 minutes ago, consiglieri said: Not according to the New Testament. Because if you are keeping things secret you should definitely mention them in letters written to random churches, usually written because they are in apostasy.
consiglieri Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 2 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Because if you are keeping things secret you should definitely mention them in letters written to random churches, usually written because they are in apostasy. Am I smelling an argument from silence here? Or did somebody flatulate?
The Nehor Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 2 minutes ago, consiglieri said: Am I smelling an argument from silence here? Or did somebody flatulate? That is not an argument from silence it is recognition that if it did happen there would be silence.
Ahab Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 17 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Weariness is a human condition. Brigham Young taught that spirits do not weary in labor. I assume resurrected bodies do not either. Yeah, but I'm still going to have a bed and use it, sometimes, though. Probably many beds scattered all over the universe. Yeah. In houses. On planets. Many, many planets. Yeah, that's the ticket!
The Nehor Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 5 minutes ago, Ahab said: Yeah, but I'm still going to have a bed and use it, sometimes, though. Probably many beds scattered all over the universe. Yeah. In houses. On planets. Many, many planets. Yeah, that's the ticket! What?
mnn727 Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 21 hours ago, consiglieri said: No. It is about double-speak. The reference has already been provided, I think, where we teach new members (for crying out loud!) that Mormons will have their own planet. Funny that in over 20 years now I have never heard that in Church, only from Anti-Mormons on websites. I have been taught that we CAN (not will) inherit all the Father has - what all that means is up for speculation in this side of the veil. 2
consiglieri Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 1 minute ago, mnn727 said: Funny that in over 20 years now I have never heard that in Church, only from Anti-Mormons on websites. I have been taught that we CAN (not will) inherit all the Father has - what all that means is up for speculation in this side of the veil. As the quotations from official Church materials already cited demonstrate, you didn't study very hard.
consiglieri Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 10 minutes ago, The Nehor said: What? Ahab's a traveling man, baby!
JLHPROF Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 It is SO interesting that we have so many members arguing that we don't become Gods like our Father in Heaven (and make worlds) and so many non-members/former-members arguing that we do. It's almost like there's something bad about the idea, like there's something wrong if it was actually true and taught. Am I missing something? What is the great harm in this doctrine being true? Why do the anti crowd want the teaching to be valid and the TBM's want it to be speculative at best or even false? Is it a bad doctrine? Does it teach something bad? Am I missing something? 4
thesometimesaint Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 2 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: It is SO interesting that we have so many members arguing that we don't become Gods like our Father in Heaven (and make worlds) and so many non-members/former-members arguing that we do. It's almost like there's something bad about the idea, like there's something wrong if it was actually true and taught. Am I missing something? What is the great harm in this doctrine being true? Why do the anti crowd want the teaching to be valid and the TBM's want it to be speculative at best or even false? Is it a bad doctrine? Does it teach something bad? Am I missing something? I don't believe it is a bad thing to believe that we can become like our Heavenly Father. I just don't believe we know a whole lot about it. Even Joseph Smith was at a lose for words.
HappyJackWagon Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 8 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: It is SO interesting that we have so many members arguing that we don't become Gods like our Father in Heaven (and make worlds) and so many non-members/former-members arguing that we do. It's almost like there's something bad about the idea, like there's something wrong if it was actually true and taught. Am I missing something? What is the great harm in this doctrine being true? Why do the anti crowd want the teaching to be valid and the TBM's want it to be speculative at best or even false? Is it a bad doctrine? Does it teach something bad? Am I missing something? I think some TBM's want it to go away because it's embarrassing. Others don't want it to go away because they're used to embarrassing doctrines so there's no use bending over backwards to get distance from it. Personally, the concept of becoming like God is the most amazing, wonderful teaching the church has. It is the motivator of all motivators. It is the everything so when I see the church try to distance itself from the teachings, either through things like Hinkley's interview or the Becoming Like God essay, it feels like the church is jettisoning the best parts of the gospel while holding fast to stinkers like polygamy. 1
VideoGameJunkie Posted January 20, 2016 Author Posted January 20, 2016 14 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: It is SO interesting that we have so many members arguing that we don't become Gods like our Father in Heaven (and make worlds) and so many non-members/former-members arguing that we do. It's almost like there's something bad about the idea, like there's something wrong if it was actually true and taught. Am I missing something? What is the great harm in this doctrine being true? Why do the anti crowd want the teaching to be valid and the TBM's want it to be speculative at best or even false? Is it a bad doctrine? Does it teach something bad? Am I missing something? I agree. I think it's a wonderful and exciting doctrine.
The Nehor Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 24 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: I think some TBM's want it to go away because it's embarrassing. Others don't want it to go away because they're used to embarrassing doctrines so there's no use bending over backwards to get distance from it. Personally, the concept of becoming like God is the most amazing, wonderful teaching the church has. It is the motivator of all motivators. It is the everything so when I see the church try to distance itself from the teachings, either through things like Hinkley's interview or the Becoming Like God essay, it feels like the church is jettisoning the best parts of the gospel while holding fast to stinkers like polygamy. They are not distancing themselves from that. It is all over our curriculum including in our beginner Sunday School class. We do object to our enemies making a caricature out of it to attempt to minimize it or make it sound ridiculous. Do not get me wrong. It does sound ridiculous but our version makes it seem like supreme arrogance. That of our enemies makes us sound like children who just watched Star Wars for the first time and want a lightsaber and a planet. Admittedly I am going to build a lightsaber at some point but that is neither here nor ther. To be honest though if there was a way to do it I would restrict that teaching to seasoned members of the church but there isn't so oh well. 4
Zakuska Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) At some point... I think I'll make a ton ton[sic], a rancor[sic], an xwing and a millenium falcon. When I was 8 I used to draw plans to the star wars space craft s and dream about how I was going to build them when I grew up. I did build them in lego a lot though. I wonder if copy rights and trademarks last beyond the grave? Oh to have the faith of a child... then you grow up and find out faith is actually a difficult thing. To be able to see your plans through to fruition and make faith real. Edited January 20, 2016 by Zakuska
omni Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 47 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: Personally, the concept of becoming like God is the most amazing, wonderful teaching the church has. It is the motivator of all motivators. It is the everything so when I see the church try to distance itself from the teachings, either through things like Hinkley's interview or the Becoming Like God essay, it feels like the church is jettisoning the best parts of the gospel while holding fast to stinkers like polygamy. I hear this a lot, but it's always made me uncomfortable. The very idea of requiring (and damning them if they don't) my children to worship me and constantly sing my praises is of no interest to me. 1
omni Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 24 minutes ago, The Nehor said: To be honest though if there was a way to do it I would restrict that teaching to seasoned members of the church but there isn't so oh well. Hmmm, I think the Scientologists tried something similar.
stemelbow Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 1 minute ago, omni said: I hear this a lot, but it's always made me uncomfortable. The very idea of requiring (and damning them if they don't) my children to worship me and constantly sing my praises is of no interest to me. Yeah it's of no appeal to me either. I question whether God really enjoys it.
Zakuska Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 "It's better to obey than to sing praises." Zak 20:3
RevTestament Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 50 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: It is SO interesting that we have so many members arguing that we don't become Gods like our Father in Heaven (and make worlds) and so many non-members/former-members arguing that we do. Kind of ironic huh. You made me chuckle, although it is a serious topic. While it seems everyone disagrees with me or somehow doesn't believe me, I do uphold the statements of Joseph Smith, Lorenzo Snow and BY on the issue... even if I disagree on the particulars of how it happens. I don't believe that after we die on this earth, all those who become Gods/Elohim get to go off on their own and make their own world next time around. Jesus showed us how it is done imvho as He did it Himself as our brother. It is just the way it is. Quote It's almost like there's something bad about the idea, like there's something wrong if it was actually true and taught. Am I missing something? What is the great harm in this doctrine being true? Why do the anti crowd want the teaching to be valid and the TBM's want it to be speculative at best or even false? Is it a bad doctrine? Does it teach something bad? Am I missing something? The issue deals with the oracles of God which God doesn't just hand out to everybody. They are misunderstood even though they are throughout His Word. My guess is they will continue to be misunderstood even through the millennium otherwise God cannot perform His strange act. Like so many things, Jesus taught, and then men filled in what they wanted to believe or were told. So we see different levels of understanding on the issue. I don't believe that to be bad. It is just the way God does things. I don't believe He expects everyone to understand it. Those who seek after Him are those who will be able to accept this truth.
Ahab Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 1 hour ago, JLHPROF said: It is SO interesting that we have so many members arguing that we don't become Gods like our Father in Heaven (and make worlds) and so many non-members/former-members arguing that we do. It's almost like there's something bad about the idea, like there's something wrong if it was actually true and taught. Am I missing something? What is the great harm in this doctrine being true? Why do the anti crowd want the teaching to be valid and the TBM's want it to be speculative at best or even false? Is it a bad doctrine? Does it teach something bad? Am I missing something? Okay. That's it. I'm going to have my attorney contact your attorney over this blatant misrepresentation of what true TBMs like me are saying. We do not object to the idea that we will make worlds and a lot of other neat stuff. We just object to people calling it "our own" as if it will all belong to each of us, individually, and nobody else. Which is what it sounds like people are saying when they tell us it will be... in their words, "your own" planet. Such an idea seems to leave our Father and our Lord out of the picture, as if all our stuff won't also be their stuff too. Even our children will be their children, and we will be theirs too. It will all belong to them as well as ourselves as we give and share everything we have with them. All of our time, and talents, and all we create. Everything! Bearing a false witness is a bad thing, ya know. Prepare to hear from my attorney! 1
consiglieri Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 2 hours ago, Calm said: What makes you think that women wouldn't want to participate in raising a spirit family as well? I am so not going there, Calm. If you don't get the joke, them's the breaks.
consiglieri Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 7 minutes ago, Ahab said: Okay. That's it. I'm going to have my attorney contact your attorney over this blatant misrepresentation of what true TBMs like me are saying. We do not object to the idea that we will make worlds and a lot of other neat stuff. We just object to people calling it "our own" as if it will all belong to each of us, individually, and nobody else. Which is what it sounds like people are saying when they tell us it will be... in their words, "your own" planet. Such an idea seems to leave our Father and our Lord out of the picture, as if all our stuff won't also be their stuff too. Even our children will be their children, and we will be theirs too. It will all belong to them as well as ourselves as we give and share everything we have with them. All of our time, and talents, and all we create. Everything! Bearing a false witness is a bad thing, ya know. Prepare to hear from my attorney! You rang?
consiglieri Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 1 hour ago, JLHPROF said: Why do the anti crowd want the teaching to be valid and the TBM's want it to be speculative at best or even false? I just want the Church to tell the truth.
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