VideoGameJunkie Posted January 20, 2016 Author Posted January 20, 2016 49 minutes ago, Storm Rider said: And it seems not a single reference talks about an exalted being getting their own little world! As much crap is thrown about not a single teaching by the church is you get your own planet. There mere statement is a caricature of a little mind and of typical, low-brow, anti-Mormon and stupid cultural campfire talk after too much Kool-aid has been drunk. I don't understand how anyone can deduct from Church doctrine and teachings that the purpose of Exaltation is to get a world of their own. Further, I have never heard any individual attempt to clarify or state unequivocally what we each will be doing fully and completely. We will become one with God. In being one with God we will assist in all that he does. If you can limit God then attempt to describe what God does. Lastly, only a very narrow, as in narrow to the point of silliness, could attempt to paint the Church as speaking out of both sides of its mouth. I appreciate good critical reviews, but I really tire of utter claptrap stupidity. Do better, consiq because you are better than this type of gibberish hoping that the mindless might actually fall for your constant repetition of vacuous commentary. People are not stupid. There's confusion even among members. 1
Bobbieaware Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: I was taught from someone in a position of authority that the kingdoms, in D&C 132:19 where it says those who marry receive "Kingdoms, thrones, principalities, powers, dominions" refers to worlds that someone will either receive or help create in the afterlife. There seems to be some Mormons who believe exalted beings get worlds or planets and others who don't. So which is it? This article from 2014 talks about how the church claimed that we DON'T get planets in the afterlife. Then what exactly does exaltation entail and where did the worlds or planets rumor come from and why does it still exist? Here's the article. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2569583/Mormons-People-dont-planets-afterlife.html This is another example of a topic with questions that could easily be answered by having a greater familiarity with the scriptures. But before I answer your question in a later post, let me first ask YOU a couple questions: 1) Do you believe God the Father has a world of his own? 2) Do you believe the Lord Jesus Christ has a world of his own? Edited January 20, 2016 by Bobbieaware
The Nehor Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 I am going to build multiverses to amuse myself. I am not going to accept their caricature about me having a darling little planet to hug and pet and call my own. So I reject that image. Are the exalted going to make worlds? Sure, but they will be doing so much more. 2
VideoGameJunkie Posted January 20, 2016 Author Posted January 20, 2016 24 minutes ago, Bobbieaware said: This is another example of a topic with questions that could easily be answered by having a greater familiarity with the scriptures. But before I answer your question in a later post, let me first ask YOU a couple questions: 1) Do you believe God the Father has a world of his own? 2) Do you believe the Lord Jesus Christ has a world of his own? I don't like your attitude of late towards me or other posters so I'll refrain from responding to you from now on. Ignored.
Robert F. Smith Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 4 hours ago, consiglieri said: This is another example of the double-speak the Church engages in when discussing doctrines it finds sensitive. It tells the outsiders one thing, but tells the insiders another. In this case, the Church tells outsiders exalted Mormons don't get their own planets, but tells insiders they do. Par for the course. Shades of Orwellian conniving? The "Church" does not say anything and cannot legitimately be anthropomorphized. That is a classic fallacy. Individuals say things, either as personal opinions, or as formal statements of doctrine. If you actually believe that these individuals are deliberately saying one thing to insiders and the opposite to outsiders, then you need to name the individuals, cite your sources, provide quotations, and expose the pattern which you claim exists (by implication). Then you might want to explore the various possibilities to explain the phenomenon: Is this merely a way of hiding sacred mysteries from a pagan audience? Is it a way to forestall discussion by investigators of meat before milk? Or is it a more Satanic phenomenon? If it even exists. You are certainly capable of a deeper and more accurate discussion, but . . . is this merely par for the course? 2
Bobbieaware Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) 18 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said: I don't like your attitude of late towards me or other posters so I'll refrain from responding to you from now on. Ignored. Too bad. I would have answered your questions from the scriptures. But you can still find out on your own if you do a search of the word 'worlds' in the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price. Edited January 20, 2016 by Bobbieaware 1
Ahab Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 Forgot that you've already started a thread on this topic, VGJ? As I told you before no we don't get "our own" planet if by that you mean just ours, individually, and nobody else's. You won't have your own that somebody else doesn't own with you, in other words. At most we only get to share all that our Father has while he still retains ownership of everything he has and will continue to gain through his creations. It's a joint ownership kinda thing, rather than something that belongs to only one person. 1
carbon dioxide Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 5 hours ago, The Nehor said: We do not know exactly what exaltation entails but I plan to build planets. If I make it, the first things I am doing is building a huge star and blowing up in a supernova.
The Nehor Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 4 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said: If I make it, the first things I am doing is building a huge star and blowing up in a supernova. Then have a dance party in the exploding star? That is one of my plans.
JLHPROF Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 1 hour ago, VideoGameJunkie said: I find it odd and confusing that the church states this, while prophets have taught otherwise. Someone's lying. Not lying, just trying not to look weird. 1
Zakuska Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, Calm said: Supposedly Adam helped make this earth. Does the Church ever describe the earth as Adam's planet? If you believe it does, please provide a reference. There's nothing "supposedly" about it. Quote Latter-day Saints know our noble mortal patriarch as the great archangel, Michael, who not only helped create the earth but will yet lead the Lord’s armies in casting out Satan and his followers. https://www.lds.org/ensign/1994/01/the-man-adam?lang=eng The Psalms describe the earth as Adams (mans) planet. Psalms 115 16The heavens are the heavens of the LORD, But the earth He has given to the sons of men. Edited January 20, 2016 by Zakuska
VideoGameJunkie Posted January 20, 2016 Author Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Bobbieaware said: Too bad. I would have answered your questions from the scriptures. But you can still find out on your own if you do a search of the word 'worlds' in the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price. I always feel you make comments which question my intelligence or knowledge. I have a very hard time and bad history in my life with being assumed not intelligent. Edited January 20, 2016 by VideoGameJunkie 1
VideoGameJunkie Posted January 20, 2016 Author Posted January 20, 2016 9 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: Not lying, just trying not to look weird. But if it's true, why be afraid to look weird? Accept the truth and weirdness. 1
VideoGameJunkie Posted January 20, 2016 Author Posted January 20, 2016 30 minutes ago, Ahab said: Forgot that you've already started a thread on this topic, VGJ? I don't remember doing so. Must have had one too many root beers.
Ginger Snaps Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 3 hours ago, JLHPROF said: It's as much doctrine as the Ensign or General Conference (since that's mostly what it was). So not official/canonized, but still the word of the Lord's servants. With some editing by the good folks who took notes and transcribed them. . . http://byustudies.byu.edu/content/prophets-have-spoken-what-did-they-say-examining-differences-between-george-d-watts-original
JLHPROF Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 3 hours ago, Calm said: Supposedly Adam helped make this earth. Does the Church ever describe the earth as Adam's planet? If you believe it does, please provide a reference. Joseph Smith - He (Adam) is the father of the human family, and presides over the spirits of all men, and all that have had the keys must stand before him in this grand council. This may take place before some of us leave this stage of action. The Son of Man stands before him, and there is given him glory and dominion. Adam delivers up his stewardship to Christ, that which was delivered to him as holding the keys of the universe, but retains his standing as head of the human family.The Father called all spirits before Him at the creation of man, and organized them. He (Adam) is the head, and was told to multiply. The keys were first given to him, and by him to others. So Adam: Presides over all spirits of men Presides over all other key holders Gives Christ his inheritance and kingdom (which should tell you who presides) Holds the keys to the universe (which includes the earth last I checked) Is the head of the human family (which should tell us even more about who Adam really is, especially with the two possible readings of the last section).
JLHPROF Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 2 minutes ago, Ginger Snaps said: With some editing by the good folks who took notes and transcribed them. . . http://byustudies.byu.edu/content/prophets-have-spoken-what-did-they-say-examining-differences-between-george-d-watts-original Just like the Ensign.
JLHPROF Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 17 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said: But if it's true, why be afraid to look weird? Accept the truth and weirdness. Because weirdness drives away converts. And providing the first principles of repentance, baptism, and the atonement of Jesus Christ to as many of God's children as possible is priority one. Can't do that if they think we're too strange.
thesometimesaint Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 4 hours ago, Zakuska said: Thank you for the perfect example of how selectively modern Mormons apply the following verse. "What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same." D&C 1:38 If we like what the Prophet teaches its doctrine. If we don't we through the prophet under the bus. Lucky for us President Brigham Young wasn't the only Prophet of the restoration who has taught said "pseudo-doctrine" over the pulpit and in official church publications and manuals. Here is a list of primary sources culled from MRM website: (Spencer W. Kimball, Conference Reports, October 1968, p.131) Quoted in 3 current manuals: •Chapter 4: Teaching Children: from Four to Eleven Years,” A Parent’s Guide •Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Seminary Teacher Resource Manual •Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual – Chapter 10. (“. . . the Matter of Marriage” [address delivered at University of Utah Institute of Religion, 22 Oct. 1976], 2) (The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, ed. Edward L. Kimball [1982], 386). "The real life we’re preparing for is eternal life. Secular knowledge has for us eternal significance. Our conviction is that God, our Heavenly Father, wants us to live the life that He does. We learn both the spiritual things and the secular things ‘so we may one day create worlds [and] people and govern them’ (Spencer W. Kimball, The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, ed. Edward L. Kimball [1982], 386).” (Henry B. Eyring) (Spencer W. Kimball, “The Privilege of Holding the Priesthood,” Ensign (Conference Edition), November 1975, p. 80. Quoted in Doctrine and Covenants Institute Student Manual). (Joseph Fielding Smith, “Adam’s Role in Bringing Us Mortality,” General Conference, Oct. 1976, reprinted in Liahona, Jan. 2006.) (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 2:48, quoted in Achieving a Celestial Marriage Student Manual, 1976, p.132) (Snow, Improvement Era, June 1919, 658–59). (Millennial Star 56:772, October 5, 1894) (Deseret News, 13 Mar. 1897; quoted by Spencer W. Kimball in The Miracle of Forgiveness [1969], 246; See also Lesson 10 of The Latter-day Saint Woman: Basic Manual for Women, Part A). (Journal of Discourses 17:143) (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 283; Journal of Discourses 18:259, October 8, 1876) (Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses 14:242) (The Seer, 37, March 1853) (Moses Thatcher, Journal of Discourses 26:305) (Three Degrees of Glory, 10, 1922). In an October, 1997 conference address titled, “Recieve Truth,” Apostle L. Tom Perry cited 12th President Spencer W. Kimball who taught, “Peter and John had little secular learning, being termed ignorant. But they knew the vital things of life, that God lives and that the crucified, resurrected Lord is the Son of God. They knew the path to eternal life. This they learned in a few decades of their mortal life. Their righteous lives opened the door to godhood for them and creation of worlds with eternal increase” (President Kimball Speaks Out [1981], 91). (See Ensign, November 1997, p. 60). “Exalted parents are to their children as our Eternal Parents are to us. Eternal increase, a continuation of the seeds forever and ever, eternal lives — these comprise the eternal family of those who gain eternal life. For them new earths are created, and thus the on-rolling purposes of the Gods of Heaven go forward from eternity to eternity.” (Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, The Millennial Messiah, 23, 1982) LDS Church Manuals “To live in the highest part of the celestial kingdom is called exaltation or eternal life. To be able to live in this part of the celestial kingdom, people must have been married in the temple and must have kept the sacred promises they made in the temple. They will receive everything our Father in Heaven has and will become like Him. They will even be able to have spirit children and make new worlds for them to live on, and do all the things our Father in Heaven has done. People who are not married in the temple may live in other parts of the celestial kingdom, but they will not be exalted” (Gospel Fundamentals [2001], 201). (Principles of the Gospel, published by the LDS Church, 1976) (Patriarch Eldred G. Smith, BYU Speeches of the Year, March 10, 1964, p.7). (BYU Professor Kent Nielson, “People on Other Worlds”, Ensign, April 1971) (“The Reflections of Brigham Young on the Nature of Man and the State,” by J. Keith Melville, BYU Studies, vol. 4 (1961-1962), Num. 3 and 4 – Spring and Summer 1962, p.257) (A Doctrinal Exposition by the First Presidency [Joseph F. Smith, Anthon H. Lund, Charles W. Penrose] and the Twelve, “The Father and the Son,” Improvement Era, June 1916, 942, quoted in Achieving a Celestial Marriage Student Manual, 131, 1976) (David R. Ridges, Mormon Beliefs and Doctrines Made Easier, p.88) "When we escape from this earth, (do) we suppose we are going to heaven? Do you suppose you are going to the earth that Adam came from? that Eloheim came from? where Jehovah the Lord came from? No. When you have learned to become obedient to the Father that dwells upon this earth, to the Father and God of this earth, and obedient to the messengers He sends—when you have done all that, remember you are not going to leave this earth. You will never leave it until you become qualified, and capable, and capacitated to become a father of an earth yourselves.” – Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 1:356 Do you really want to go there? Our only standard for doctrine is Standard Works of the Church and select statements approved by the First Presidency, Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, First Quorum of the Seventy, sustained by the general membership in General Conference. ANYTHING ELSE is opinion.
VideoGameJunkie Posted January 20, 2016 Author Posted January 20, 2016 32 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: Because weirdness drives away converts. And providing the first principles of repentance, baptism, and the atonement of Jesus Christ to as many of God's children as possible is priority one. Can't do that if they think we're too strange. People need to be able to handle the truth. Otherwise they'll learn later and say "That wasn't taught to me when I signed up." 2
Zakuska Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) So prophetic... even a child can understand. Edited January 20, 2016 by Zakuska
strappinglad Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) VJG , do you not see the snarkiness of the phrase " get your own planet " ? It is used with mockery to point and laugh at the gullible Mormon's. No critic even tries to show the true picture of exaltation as defined by the Brethren. Of course we have been taught that those who are exalted will receive of all that God has and we assume that means that we will someday assist in the building and populating of worlds. The phrase " get your own planet " is used like any Mormon will get the keys to a new planet the moment he crosses into heaven. Similar mocking is done almost universally when Muslims say that those who are martyred will receive 72 virgins. Those enjoy giving people the opportunity to mock the Church and distort doctrine have their reward in that great and spacious building. Edited January 20, 2016 by strappinglad 3
Hamba Tuhan Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) This topic reminds me of the tracts I used to see on my mission accusing the Catholics of practising and teaching cannibalism owing to their genuine belief in the transubstantiation of the host and wine. Of course, whenever the RC church would say, politely, 'Er, no we don't', they would also be falsely accused of 'double-speak' and hiding the truth from outsiders due to shame ... and then browbeaten with all kinds of quotations, taken from good Catholic figures, in support of the doctrine of transubstantiation. <sigh> Edited January 20, 2016 by Hamba Tuhan 4
Zakuska Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, thesometimesaint said: Do you really want to go there? Our only standard for doctrine is Standard Works of the Church and select statements approved by the First Presidency, Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, First Quorum of the Seventy, sustained by the general membership in General Conference. ANYTHING ELSE is opinion. I wonder if thus is mere "opinion"? People on other worlds, by kent neilsen Long before our God began his creations, he dwelt on a mortal world like ours, one of the creations that his Father had created for him and his brethren. He, with many of his brethren, was obedient to the principles of the eternal gospel. One among these, it is presumed, was a savior for them, and through him they obtained a resurrection and an exaltation on an eternal, celestial world. 8 Then they gained the power and godhood of their Father and were made heirs of all that he had, continuing his works and creating worlds of their own for their own posterity—the same as their Father had done before, and his Father, and his Father, and on and on. With these things in mind, W. W. Phelps, in a hymn, asks the question: “If you could hie to Kolob In the twinkling of an eye, And then continue onward With that same speed to fly, D’ye think that you could ever, Through all eternity, Find out the generation Where Gods began to be?” 9 Nothing is more basic in the restored gospel than these truths that, because of recent events of space travel, are so timely. The great hope of the gospel for us is that we may come to a oneness with our Lord and our Father and partake of this same work and glory and godhood. Being joint-heirs of all that the Father has, we may then look forward to using those powers to organize still other worlds from the unorganized matter that exists throughout boundless space. Creating other worlds, peopling them with our own eternal posterity, providing a savior for them, and making known to them the saving principles of the eternal gospel, that they may have the same experiences we are now having and be exalted with us in their turn—this is eternal life. 10 No wonder this possibility continues to fascinate and inspire Saints of all ages. This hope is what inspires members of the Church to seek eternal marriage and to seek in all things to be one with our Lord Jesus Christ, because we want to be with him and participate in all the marvelous things of which Paul the apostle said: “Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.” 11 https://www.lds.org/new-era/1971/04/people-on-other-worlds?lang=eng Edited January 20, 2016 by Zakuska
VideoGameJunkie Posted January 20, 2016 Author Posted January 20, 2016 Populating worlds with spirit children does sound much better than getting your own planet.
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