So exalted Mormons don't get their own planets in the afterlife?

[Calm]

4 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

And it seems not a single reference talks about an exalted being getting their own little world!  As much crap is thrown about not a single teaching by the church is you get your own planet.  There mere statement is a caricature of a little mind and of typical, low-brow, anti-Mormon and stupid cultural campfire talk after too much Kool-aid has been drunk.

I don't understand how anyone can deduct from Church doctrine and teachings that the purpose of Exaltation is to get a world of their own.  Further, I have never heard any individual attempt to clarify or state unequivocally what we each will be doing fully and completely.  

We will become one with God.  In being one with God we will assist in all that he does.  If you can limit God then attempt to describe what God does.

It does seem very strange to me that the ultimate, all that we have been seeking out from God from the moment of our sentience is becoming one with the Father and then supposed as soon as we join with this ultimate union of Gods, we toss it aside to go off on our own to plod away at buidling and ruling our own world all by our lonesome selves.  Seems completely contrary to the purpose of the Plan of Salvation.

Also, 

In all discussion of creation coming through LDS scripture, creation is done by the Gods, we know a few of them involved, there were likely many more.  If each world has multiple Gods whose God is the Father, then saying we each get our own planet is incorrect as we don't, they would appear to belong to the family of God of which all exalted beings will be and we will make such worlds together for our spirit children to populate....though I supposed we could be doing barnraising types of creation, do one for one family, get them settled and then go raise a world by the community for another one couple and then move on yet again.  But then there is the Council of Gods, the Sons of Gods, all those conversations that seem to say that God has those men/angels/noble and great ones helping him in creation and who stand by him throughout.  

[RevTestament]

8 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

I was taught from someone in a position of authority that the kingdoms, in D&C 132:19 where it says those who marry receive "Kingdoms, thrones, principalities, powers, dominions" refers to worlds that someone will either receive or help create in the afterlife. There seems to be some Mormons who believe exalted beings get worlds or planets and others who don't. So which is it? This article from 2014 talks about how the church claimed that we DON'T get planets in the afterlife. Then what exactly does exaltation entail and where did the worlds or planets rumor come from and why does it still exist? Here's the article. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2569583/Mormons-People-dont-planets-afterlife.html

Matthew 19:28

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in theregeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

 

Exactly what throne is that?

 6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

 

So yeah, Jesus will get His own planet. It appears the rest of us have to wait.

[VideoGameJunkie]

6 minutes ago, Calm said:

It does seem very strange to me that the ultimate, all that we have been seeking out from God from the moment of our sentience is becoming one with the Father and then supposed as soon as we join with this ultimate union of Gods, we toss it aside to go off on our own to plod away at buidling and ruling our own world all by our lonesome selves.  Seems completely contrary to the purpose of the Plan of Salvation.

Also, 

In all discussion of creation coming through LDS scripture, creation is done by the Gods, we know a few of them involved, there were likely many more.  If each world has multiple Gods whose God is the Father, then saying we each get our own planet is incorrect as we don't, they would appear to belong to the family of God of which all exalted beings will be and we will make such worlds together for our spirit children to populate....though I supposed we could be doing barnraising types of creation, do one for one family, get them settled and then go raise a world by the community for another one couple and then move on yet again.  But then there is the Council of Gods, the Sons of Gods, all those conversations that seem to say that God has those men/angels/noble and great ones helping him in creation and who stand by him throughout.  

I always knew that God would always be our God and any world we may be assigned to populate will still belong to Heavenly Father, so I see where critics say Mormons believe they will get their "own" world. But shouldn't it be safe to say we can watch over our spirit children in the worlds which they are assigned to dwell on, which belongs to the Father and we're just helping watch over our children? Is that more accurate? That sounds better to me since it includes the family purpose and the worship of God still, without the ego power greed.

[Stargazer]

13 hours ago, consiglieri said:

No.  It is about double-speak.

The reference has already been provided, I think, where we teach new members (for crying out loud!) that Mormons will have their own planet.

It is just tough for the Church to say as much to outsiders.

One would think a religion wouldn't have to be so embarrassed about its own teachings.

That is the biggest pile of steaming whatever I have heard lately.  I've been involved in teaching new members for decades, and just in case you never attended a new member orientation class, there is no time when we have ever taught that they will have their own freaking planet.  In fact, I'm a convert, and I've never been taught that I would get my own planet.

Now, I happen to have matured in the gospel over the years, and my understanding of how this all works is this: that if I am exalted I will be like Heavenly Father, and He did not only create and possess a single planet, He created and possesses an entire Universe.  And maybe more than one, I don't know.  

The Nehor's assessment of you was spot on, I reckon.  You definitely prefer the caricatures, and take as gold-plated official doctrine those private doctrines that well-meaning but misguided members have slurried forth from time to time.  Not only have you lost what you once had, you've replaced it with swill.  Sorry to be so harsh, but it's clear from the perspective of this observer (me), that you don't even recognize it yourself.  Is it still possible for you to recover from this?  Of course it is, but you don't even want to, as far as I can see.  I wish you nothing but the best, consiglieri.  But I fear for you.

If you do a search of the phrase (in quotes) "own planet" on lds.org, you get a short list of results, all of which essentially read like this example, found here in FAQ:

Quote

12. Do Latter-day Saints believe that they will “get their own planet”?

No. This idea is not taught in Latter-day Saint scripture, nor is it a doctrine of the Church. This misunderstanding stems from speculative comments unreflective of scriptural doctrine. Mormons believe that we are all sons and daughters of God and that all of us have the potential to grow during and after this life to become like our Heavenly Father (see Romans 8:16-17). The Church does not and has never purported to fully understand the specifics of Christ’s statement that “in my Father’s house are many mansions” (John 14:2).

 

[Stargazer]

13 hours ago, consiglieri said:

It looks like the citation wasn't given already after all.

So it is up to me.

This from Lesson 36 of the LDS Gospel Fundamentals Manual:

Quote

To live in the highest part of the celestial kingdom is called exaltation* or eternal life. To be able to live in this part of the celestial kingdom, people must have been married in the temple and must have kept the sacred promises they made in the temple. They will receive everything our Father in Heaven has and will become like Him. They will even be able to have spirit children and make new worlds for them to live on, and do all the things our Father in Heaven has done. People who are not married in the temple may live in other parts of the celestial kingdom, but they will not be exalted.

https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-fundamentals/chapter-36-eternal-life?lang=eng

 

More steaming whatever.  This does not say that you get your own planet.  It says you get to become like Heavenly Father, who has created an entire Universe for his spirit children to use.  You "make new worlds for them to live on" is not getting "your own planet".  This is like equating getting your own car to drive with owning an automobile factory.

You don't know what you're talking about, and you underscore it yourself.  Smooth.

[Stargazer]

6 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

Populating worlds with spirit children does sound much better than getting your own planet.

Well, it IS better, but I know you've been to the temple, and you might even have participated in sealing teams, where husbands are sealed to wives?  If you have not, I highly suggest you do so.  Listen very carefully to the words of the sealing ordinance.  It is trying to convey something much, much higher and better and more glorious than "getting your own planet".  But you still have to expand your mind in order to understand that no explanation of it can possibly hold a candle to the eventual reality.  

"Getting your own planet" is a mocking caricature of what it means to be exalted.  I suppose that some leaders of the Church have tried to simplify it so people of immature understanding could comprehend it, but it is such a limited and lame analog to the real thing.  

[Stargazer]

6 hours ago, Calm said:

It does seem very strange to me that the ultimate, all that we have been seeking out from God from the moment of our sentience is becoming one with the Father and then supposed as soon as we join with this ultimate union of Gods, we toss it aside to go off on our own to plod away at buidling and ruling our own world all by our lonesome selves.  Seems completely contrary to the purpose of the Plan of Salvation.

Also, 

In all discussion of creation coming through LDS scripture, creation is done by the Gods, we know a few of them involved, there were likely many more.  If each world has multiple Gods whose God is the Father, then saying we each get our own planet is incorrect as we don't, they would appear to belong to the family of God of which all exalted beings will be and we will make such worlds together for our spirit children to populate....though I supposed we could be doing barnraising types of creation, do one for one family, get them settled and then go raise a world by the community for another one couple and then move on yet again.  But then there is the Council of Gods, the Sons of Gods, all those conversations that seem to say that God has those men/angels/noble and great ones helping him in creation and who stand by him throughout.  

Well, I applaud that you're thinking outside the box, Calm, but even though I think you may be picking up on some valuable nuances, much of what you've written here is wild speculation.

By the way, Elohim is Hebrew for Gods, and it applies to the Father because His excellence and majesty requires a plural noun, not because he represents a council of some sort.  He is still the single presiding authority of the universe, even if none may come to Him except through the Son.

[stemelbow]

People are really touchy about their beliefs.  They don't want them to sound weird and outlandish, so the way beliefs come off to others is very important to believers.

I learned it was much easier and felt much more honest to answer people's question about getting our own planets with a yes, rather than a no with a terrible explanation and leaving the hearer with confusion.  One day the Church will learn the same.  I don't think there's anything to hide.  Most members would say those who are exalted will help create and populate other worlds.  But then get all huffy if someone sees that as believing they will get their own planets?  Sheesh...conversation halts to a complete stall, sides are created and walls are built up to keep things just so neat.  What a waste of energy.  Have fun fellow LDS who want to deny everything in order to make sure everyone will say it just like you want.  It will never happen.  Loosen up and accept reality.  the build other words and populate them is essentially having your own planet.  I get my kid a bike and he gladly and shamelessly calls it his own, even if I remain his dad. 

 

[Sanpitch]

I suppose the private possession of a planet has been shot down regardless of what has been said in the past but I sometimes think just how that would work.

 

Original mom and dad had several kids all living Celestial worthy.  The boys all want to get their own planet so they go that direction.  The girls marry husbands who want their own planet so they go that direction. So mom and dad are left on their private planet all alone unless they continue to have more children but as soon as the children marry they all go off on their own.

 

All the offspring are also tied to the families of their spouses so each generation is further from the original parents until there is very little relationship to the original.  Going backwards toward the ancestors, same problem, how do they fit in.

 

In other words you and all your offspring do not all live happily together for ever and ever.  Your offspring are also the offspring of hundreds or thousands of other parents whether you get your own planet or not.

 

Great, great grandson to great, great granddad.  "Why don't you ever come and visit us on my planet? Gggranddad, "I'd love to gggrandson but I have descendants on hundreds or thousands of other planets and I just cannot find the time and I'm not as young as I used to be. 

[stemelbow]

7 minutes ago, Sanpitch said:

I suppose the private possession of a planet has been shot down regardless of what has been said in the past but I sometimes think just how that would work.

 

Original mom and dad had several kids all living Celestial worthy.  The boys all want to get their own planet so they go that direction.  The girls marry husbands who want their own planet so they go that direction. So mom and dad are left on their private planet all alone unless they continue to have more children but as soon as the children marry they all go off on their own.

 

All the offspring are also tied to the families of their spouses so each generation is further from the original parents until there is very little relationship to the original.  Going backwards toward the ancestors, same problem, how do they fit in.

 

In other words you and all your offspring do not all live happily together for ever and ever.  Your offspring are also the offspring of hundreds or thousands of other parents whether you get your own planet or not.

 

Great, great grandson to great, great granddad.  "Why don't you ever come and visit us on my planet? Gggranddad, "I'd love to gggrandson but I have descendants on hundreds or thousands of other planets and I just cannot find the time and I'm not as young as I used to be. 

So are you saying the exalted won't create worlds and populate them with their own?  Your post here seems like a sad caricature of LDS belief but there's no inherent errors in what you say.  It is what has been taught--the exalted will be granted the ability to create worlds and populate them themselves.  Are you saying that it has not been taught?

[smac97]

.

Edited January 20, 2016 by smac97

[thesometimesaint]

4 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

So are you saying the exalted won't create worlds and populate them with their own?  Your post here seems like a sad caricature of LDS belief but there's no inherent errors in what you say.  It is what has been taught--the exalted will be granted the ability to create worlds and populate them themselves.  Are you saying that it has not been taught?

We are taught that we shall be like God. Anything else is speculation.

[stemelbow]

1 minute ago, thesometimesaint said:

We are taught that we shall be like God. Anything else is speculation.

Hey if that's your view, then cool.  But it'd be silly to say that some people's speculation has not been taught and is not accepted throughout today.  Just think how many LDS would accept this notion--the exalted will create worlds and populate them?  I'd think most would accept that without hesitation, no?

[consiglieri]

12 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

Lastly, only a very narrow, as in narrow to the point of silliness, could attempt to paint the Church as speaking out of both sides of its mouth.  I appreciate good critical reviews, but I really tire of utter claptrap stupidity.  Do better, consiq because you are better than this type of gibberish hoping that the mindless might actually fall for your constant repetition of vacuous commentary. 

Instead of denying this teaching, the Church would be better served to acknowledge it and clarify it as it deems fit.

Denying it outright, as the Church has done, seems duplicitous.

[stemelbow]

Just now, consiglieri said:

Instead of denying this teaching, the Church would be better served to acknowledge it and clarify it as it deems fit.

Denying it outright, as the Church has done, seems duplicitous.

I'd say putting duplicitous aside, just because, it's only, in the long run problematic.  Just accept that the Church's beliefs are weird to others and give a little.  Stop putting up walls in terms of conversation potential and leaving it at that. 

[consiglieri]

12 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

I find it odd and confusing that the church states this, while prophets have taught otherwise. Someone's lying.

I think lying is a tad strong, but it seems clear from the evidence the Church is certainly misrepresenting its own teachings for a public audience.

[consiglieri]

11 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

The "Church" does not say anything and cannot legitimately be anthropomorphized.  That is a classic fallacy.  Individuals say things, either as personal opinions, or as formal statements of doctrine.  If you actually believe that these individuals are deliberately saying one thing to insiders and the opposite to outsiders, then you need to name the individuals, cite your sources, provide quotations, and expose the pattern which you claim exists (by implication).

But the Church denies us the ability to specify individuals due to its practice of late to release doctrinal statements and positions anonymously.

[consiglieri]

11 hours ago, Bobbieaware said:

Too bad. I would have answered your questions from the scriptures. But you can still find out on your own if you do a search of the word 'worlds' in the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price. 

The issue is not about the scriptures, Bobbieaware.

The issue is about what the Church teaches to its members being different than what it teaches to the public.

Which it clearly does.

This being a prime example.

[consiglieri]

10 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Then have a dance party in the exploding star? That is one of my plans.

Reminds me of a scene from Independence Day.

[thesometimesaint]

7 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Hey if that's your view, then cool.  But it'd be silly to say that some people's speculation has not been taught and is not accepted throughout today.  Just think how many LDS would accept this notion--the exalted will create worlds and populate them?  I'd think most would accept that without hesitation, no?

I don't have a problem with speculation. It is just not doctrine.

[consiglieri]

10 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

I always feel you make comments which question my intelligence or knowledge. I have a very hard time and bad history in my life with being assumed not intelligent.

Let me put that to rest, then.

It is clear from your posting on this board alone that you are extremely intelligent, VGJ.

Don't let anybody tell you different!

[Sanpitch]

28 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

So are you saying the exalted won't create worlds and populate them with their own?  Your post here seems like a sad caricature of LDS belief but there's no inherent errors in what you say.  It is what has been taught--the exalted will be granted the ability to create worlds and populate them themselves.  Are you saying that it has not been taught?

No, I'm not saying anything about what has been taught or what the doctrine is.  I'm just speculating on how it would work for qualified people to all get their own planet.  Of course there will be those who don't qualify, they drank coffee and tea and couldn't go to the temple.  I don't know where they will fit in. 

ED to add:  But my very faithful LDS siblings have sure been planning on designing their own planet and where they want to put it.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Sanpitch

[consiglieri]

9 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

Do you really want to go there? Our only standard for doctrine is Standard Works of the Church and select statements approved by the First Presidency, Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, First Quorum of the Seventy, sustained by the general membership in General Conference. ANYTHING ELSE is opinion.

Even the Prophet of the Church, Spencer W. Kimball, addressing Priesthood Session of General Conference?

For shame!

[consiglieri]

9 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

People need to be able to handle the truth. Otherwise they'll learn later and say "That wasn't taught to me when I signed up."

Bingo!

You have put your finger squarely on the problem.

This is why somebody reputedly said, "Honesty is the best policy."

[consiglieri]

1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

That is the biggest pile of steaming whatever I have heard lately.  I've been involved in teaching new members for decades, and just in case you never attended a new member orientation class, there is no time when we have ever taught that they will have their own freaking planet.  In fact, I'm a convert, and I've never been taught that I would get my own planet.

Methinks the Stargazer doth protest too much.