So exalted Mormons don't get their own planets in the afterlife?

[VideoGameJunkie]

I was taught from someone in a position of authority that the kingdoms, in D&C 132:19 where it says those who marry receive "Kingdoms, thrones, principalities, powers, dominions" refers to worlds that someone will either receive or help create in the afterlife. There seems to be some Mormons who believe exalted beings get worlds or planets and others who don't. So which is it? This article from 2014 talks about how the church claimed that we DON'T get planets in the afterlife. Then what exactly does exaltation entail and where did the worlds or planets rumor come from and why does it still exist? Here's the article. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2569583/Mormons-People-dont-planets-afterlife.html

[The Nehor]

We do not know exactly what exaltation entails but I plan to build planets.

[VideoGameJunkie]

12 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

We do not know exactly what exaltation entails but I plan to build planets.

This is another article where the church says otherwise. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/mormons-explain-believers-won-planets-afterlife-article-1.1704487

Edited January 19, 2016 by VideoGameJunkie

[Zakuska]

The church and it's prophets have taught the very idea as doctrine for a very long time and it's in current official manuals.  I don't see how the Church can distance itself from this one.  It's very well documented.

 

“All those who are counted worthy to be exalted and to become Gods, even the sons of God, will go forth and have earths and worlds like those who framed this and millions on millions of others.” (Journal of Discourses 17:143)

Edited January 19, 2016 by Zakuska

[consiglieri]

This is another example of the double-speak the Church engages in when discussing doctrines it finds sensitive.

It tells the outsiders one thing, but tells the insiders another.

In this case, the Church tells outsiders exalted Mormons don't get their own planets, but tells insiders they do.

Par for the course.

[The Nehor]

19 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

This is another article where the church says otherwise. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/mormons-explain-believers-won-planets-afterlife-article-1.1704487

No, the church said that the idea that everyone gets a planet is a cartoonish caricature and it is. Only one planet? With the creative power of a God? They are also disabusing outsiders of the idea that if you want to know what exaltation is the main description would be having a planet.

It is instead becoming like God with all that entails (and we do not know most of what it entails).

[The Nehor]

7 minutes ago, consiglieri said:

This is another example of the double-speak the Church engages in when discussing doctrines it finds sensitive.

It tells the outsiders one thing, but tells the insiders another.

In this case, the Church tells outsiders exalted Mormons don't get their own planets, but tells insiders they do.

Par for the course.

No, it is dismantling caricatures. You can take the heaven of some Protestants and describe it as staring at God for all eternity in a fixed spot praising him. You can find support for it but the faithful would never describe it in those turns and that is not what they are really seeking.

Antis like Consig here get upset when we try to take away their caricatures because they need them as weapons. When we try to clarify them they whine and insist we are lying. They need that weapon. How dare we challenge their silly mockery when you can find a bit of truth about it the whole thing must stand. The church must defend their caricatures or it is lying.

The church refuse and they whine about it. To be fair they whine about almost everything so it is not that big of a surprise. Par for the course.

[JAHS]

14 minutes ago, consiglieri said:

This is another example of the double-speak the Church engages in when discussing doctrines it finds sensitive.

It tells the outsiders one thing, but tells the insiders another.

In this case, the Church tells outsiders exalted Mormons don't get their own planets, but tells insiders they do.

Par for the course.

I have always understood that it is possible that if we become gods we will be able to do all that our God has done; which includes creating our own universe and populating the planets with our own spirit children.

"We are created, we are born for the express purpose of growing up from the low estate of manhood, to become Gods like unto our Father in heaven." (Brigham Young)

But I have also always understood that we don't fully understand how it all happens and because of that we can not proclaim to the world that it is "official" church doctrine. 

Rather than call it "double-speak", I see it more as not casting our pearls before swine. 

[thesometimesaint]

45 minutes ago, Zakuska said:

The church and it's prophets have taught the very idea as doctrine for a very long time and it's in current official manuals.  I don't see how the Church can distance itself from this one.  It's very well documented.

 

“All those who are counted worthy to be exalted and to become Gods, even the sons of God, will go forth and have earths and worlds like those who framed this and millions on millions of others.” (Journal of Discourses 17:143)

All due respect to Brother Brigham, but the Journal of Discourses is not doctrine.

SEE http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/approaching-mormon-doctrine

[Sanpitch]

I wish someone would make up their mind.  Mormonism 101 says: 

Do Latter-day Saints believe that they will “get their own planet”?

No. This idea is not taught in Latter-day Saint scripture, nor is it a doctrine of the Church. This misunderstanding stems from speculative comments unreflective of scriptural doctrine. Mormons believe that we are all sons and daughters of God and that all of us have the potential to grow during and after this life to become like our Heavenly Father (see Romans 8:16-17). The Church does not and has never purported to fully understand the specifics of Christ’s statement that “in my Father’s house are many mansions” (John 14:2).

[consiglieri]

42 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

No, it is dismantling caricatures. You can take the heaven of some Protestants and describe it as staring at God for all eternity in a fixed spot praising him. You can find support for it but the faithful would never describe it in those turns and that is not what they are really seeking.

Antis like Consig here get upset when we try to take away their caricatures because they need them as weapons. When we try to clarify them they whine and insist we are lying. They need that weapon. How dare we challenge their silly mockery when you can find a bit of truth about it the whole thing must stand. The church must defend their caricatures or it is lying.

The church refuse and they whine about it. To be fair they whine about almost everything so it is not that big of a surprise. Par for the course.

No.  It is about double-speak.

The reference has already been provided, I think, where we teach new members (for crying out loud!) that Mormons will have their own planet.

It is just tough for the Church to say as much to outsiders.

One would think a religion wouldn't have to be so embarrassed about its own teachings.

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, consiglieri said:

No.  It is about double-speak.

The reference has already been provided, I think, where we teach new members (for crying out loud!) that Mormons will have their own planet.

It is just tough for the Church to say as much to outsiders.

One would think a religion wouldn't have to be so embarrassed about its own teachings.

Joseph Smith taught that this doctrine was not for outsiders. It is not embarrassment. It is a desire to keep the stupid little piggies away from the pearls because after they get the pearls they try to come and rend us and then someone goes down......usually the pig. So really keeping it from them is doing them a favor.

[consiglieri]

It looks like the citation wasn't given already after all.

So it is up to me.

This from Lesson 36 of the LDS Gospel Fundamentals Manual:

Quote

To live in the highest part of the celestial kingdom is called exaltation* or eternal life. To be able to live in this part of the celestial kingdom, people must have been married in the temple and must have kept the sacred promises they made in the temple. They will receive everything our Father in Heaven has and will become like Him. They will even be able to have spirit children and make new worlds for them to live on, and do all the things our Father in Heaven has done. People who are not married in the temple may live in other parts of the celestial kingdom, but they will not be exalted.

https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-fundamentals/chapter-36-eternal-life?lang=eng

 

[consiglieri]

Bump to let people digest the fact the LDS Church is talking out of both sides of its mouth on this issue.

[Calm]

Supposedly Adam helped make this earth.  Does the Church ever describe the earth as Adam's planet?  If you believe it does, please provide a reference.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Calm

[Zakuska]

49 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

49 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

 

All due respect to Brother Brigham, but the Journal of Discourses is not doctrine.

SEE http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/approaching-mormon-doctrine

Thank you for the perfect example of how selectively modern Mormons apply the following verse.

"What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same." D&C 1:38

If we like what the Prophet teaches its doctrine. If we don't we through the prophet under the bus.

Lucky for us President Brigham Young wasn't the only Prophet of the restoration who has taught said "pseudo-doctrine" over the pulpit and in official church publications and manuals. Here is a list of primary sources culled from MRM website:

(Spencer W. Kimball, Conference Reports, October 1968, p.131)

Quoted in 3 current manuals:

•Chapter 4: Teaching Children: from Four to Eleven Years,” A Parent’s Guide
•Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Seminary Teacher Resource Manual
•Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual – Chapter 10.

(“. . . the Matter of Marriage” [address delivered at University of Utah Institute of Religion, 22 Oct. 1976], 2)

(The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, ed. Edward L. Kimball [1982], 386).

 

"The real life we’re preparing for is eternal life. Secular knowledge has for us eternal significance. Our conviction is that God, our Heavenly Father, wants us to live the life that He does. We learn both the spiritual things and the secular things ‘so we may one day create worlds [and] people and govern them’ (Spencer W. Kimball, The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, ed. Edward L. Kimball [1982], 386).” (Henry B. Eyring)

(Spencer W. Kimball, “The Privilege of Holding the Priesthood,” Ensign (Conference Edition), November 1975, p. 80. Quoted in Doctrine and Covenants Institute Student Manual).

(Joseph Fielding Smith, “Adam’s Role in Bringing Us Mortality,” General Conference, Oct. 1976, reprinted in Liahona, Jan. 2006.)

(Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 2:48, quoted in Achieving a Celestial Marriage Student Manual, 1976, p.132)

(Snow, Improvement Era, June 1919, 658–59).

(Millennial Star 56:772, October 5, 1894)

(Deseret News, 13 Mar. 1897; quoted by Spencer W. Kimball in The Miracle of Forgiveness [1969], 246;  See also Lesson 10 of The Latter-day Saint Woman: Basic Manual for Women, Part A).

(Journal of Discourses 17:143)

(Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 283; Journal of Discourses 18:259, October 8, 1876)

(Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses 14:242)

(The Seer, 37, March 1853)

(Moses Thatcher, Journal of Discourses 26:305)

(Three Degrees of Glory, 10, 1922).

 

In an October, 1997 conference address titled, “Recieve Truth,” Apostle L. Tom Perry cited 12th President Spencer W. Kimball who taught, “Peter and John had little secular learning, being termed ignorant. But they knew the vital things of life, that God lives and that the crucified, resurrected Lord is the Son of God. They knew the path to eternal life. This they learned in a few decades of their mortal life. Their righteous lives opened the door to godhood for them and creation of worlds with eternal increase”  (President Kimball Speaks Out [1981], 91). (See Ensign, November 1997, p. 60).

“Exalted parents are to their children as our Eternal Parents are to us. Eternal increase, a continuation of the seeds forever and ever, eternal lives — these comprise the eternal family of those who gain eternal life. For them new earths are created, and thus the on-rolling purposes of the Gods of Heaven go forward from eternity to eternity.” (Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, The Millennial Messiah, 23, 1982)

LDS Church Manuals

“To live in the highest part of the celestial kingdom is called exaltation or eternal life. To be able to live in this part of the celestial kingdom, people must have been married in the temple and must have kept the sacred promises they made in the temple. They will receive everything our Father in Heaven has and will become like Him. They will even be able to have spirit children and make new worlds for them to live on, and do all the things our Father in Heaven has done. People who are not married in the temple may live in other parts of the celestial kingdom, but they will not be exalted” (Gospel Fundamentals [2001], 201).

(Principles of the Gospel, published by the LDS Church, 1976)

(Patriarch Eldred G. Smith, BYU Speeches of the Year, March 10, 1964, p.7).

(BYU Professor Kent Nielson, “People on Other Worlds”, Ensign, April 1971)

(“The Reflections of Brigham Young on the Nature of Man and the State,” by J. Keith Melville, BYU Studies, vol. 4 (1961-1962), Num. 3 and 4 – Spring and Summer 1962, p.257)

(A Doctrinal Exposition by the First Presidency [Joseph F. Smith, Anthon H. Lund, Charles W. Penrose] and the Twelve, “The Father and the Son,” Improvement Era, June 1916, 942, quoted in Achieving a Celestial Marriage Student Manual, 131, 1976)

(David R. Ridges, Mormon Beliefs and Doctrines Made Easier, p.88)

"When we escape from this earth, (do) we suppose we are going to heaven? Do you suppose you are going to the earth that Adam came from? that Eloheim came from? where Jehovah the Lord came from? No. When you have learned to become obedient to the Father that dwells upon this earth, to the Father and God of this earth, and obedient to the messengers He sends—when you have done all that, remember you are not going to leave this earth. You will never leave it until you become qualified, and capable, and capacitated to become a father of an earth yourselves.” – Heber C. Kimball,  Journal of Discourses 1:356

Edited January 20, 2016 by Zakuska

[consiglieri]

8 minutes ago, Calm said:

Supposedly Adam helped make this earth.  Does the Church ever describe the earth as Adam's planet?  If you believe it does, please provide a reference.

Brigham Young did.

After that, not so much.

[Zakuska]

Elder L tom Perry as recently as October Conference of 1997 quoting Spencer W. Kimball:

President Spencer W. Kimball gave us some instructions about the knowledge we should seek and in what sequence. Using Peter and John as examples, he taught:

“Peter and John had little secular learning, being termed ignorant. But they knew the vital things of life, that God lives and that the crucified, resurrected Lord is the Son of God. They knew the path to eternal life. This they learned in a few decades of their mortal life. Their righteous lives opened the door to godhood for them and creation of worlds with eternal increase. For this they would probably need, eventually, a total knowledge of the sciences. But whereas Peter and John had only decades to learn and do the spiritual, they have already had nineteen centuries in which to learn the secular or the geology of the earth, the zoology and physiology and psychology of the creatures of the earth. Mortality is the time to learn first of God and the gospel and to perform the ordinances. After our feet are set firmly on the path to eternal life we can amass more knowledge of the secular things” (President Kimball Speaks Out [1981], 91).

[consiglieri]

Here are some more quotes to show the Church is being less than ingenuous on the subject:

Joseph Fielding Smith wrote, “We will become gods and have jurisdiction over worlds, and these worlds will be peopled by our own offspring.” Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 2:48

Bruce R. McConkie taught regarding exalted parents, “For them new earths are created.” Bruce R. McConkie, The Millennial Messiah, (Deseret: Salt Lake City, 1982), p. 23

President Spencer W. Kimball said, in addressing the October 1975 General Priesthood Session of General Conference:  “Brethren, 225,000 of you are here tonight.  I suppose 225,000 of you may become gods.  . . . I think [God] could make, or probably have us help make, worlds for all of us, for every one of us 225,000.” Spencer Kimball, “The Privilege of Holding the Priesthood,” Ensign, Nov, 1975, p. 80

On another occasion, President Kimball counseled Latter-day Saints to “grow in ability and power and worthiness, to govern such a world with all of its people.” Spencer W. Kimball, “…the Matter of Marriage,” (address delivered at the University of Utah Institute of Religion), 22 October 1976, p. 2; quoted in The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, ed. Edward L. Kimball, (Bookcraft: Salt Lake city, 1982), p. 31

[JLHPROF]

58 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

All due respect to Brother Brigham, but the Journal of Discourses is not doctrine.

SEE http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/approaching-mormon-doctrine

It's as much doctrine as the Ensign or General Conference (since that's mostly what it was).

So not official/canonized, but still the word of the Lord's servants.

[JLHPROF]

2 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

I was taught from someone in a position of authority that the kingdoms, in D&C 132:19 where it says those who marry receive "Kingdoms, thrones, principalities, powers, dominions" refers to worlds that someone will either receive or help create in the afterlife. There seems to be some Mormons who believe exalted beings get worlds or planets and others who don't. So which is it? This article from 2014 talks about how the church claimed that we DON'T get planets in the afterlife. Then what exactly does exaltation entail and where did the worlds or planets rumor come from and why does it still exist? Here's the article. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2569583/Mormons-People-dont-planets-afterlife.html

Everyone has their own opinion on this doctrine.

Making an assumption either way is colored by whose statements you choose to believe.  I wouldn't call it pure speculation, but there is plenty of apostolic teaching both ways.
Obviously, I lean towards the "yes we do" camp and others lean towards the "no we don't camp".    There are teachings to both sides that can be debated ad nauseam and never agreed on.

Joseph taught that good doctrine tastes good.  You have every right to believe whichever side tastes better to you since there are apostles that teach both positions and I doubt God's settling the debate any time soon.

[Traela]

"We get our own planet" is just a simplification.  We know that we will have all the powers of God, but will still be under the authority of God.  And I for one can't imagine being in control of a galaxy, let alone a whole universe.  So imagining Heaven as a universe-sized neighborhood with each couple on their own planet makes sense.  In reality, it will probably be closer to a multiverse.

 

[Storm Rider]

And it seems not a single reference talks about an exalted being getting their own little world!  As much crap is thrown about not a single teaching by the church is you get your own planet.  There mere statement is a caricature of a little mind and of typical, low-brow, anti-Mormon and stupid cultural campfire talk after too much Kool-aid has been drunk.

I don't understand how anyone can deduct from Church doctrine and teachings that the purpose of Exaltation is to get a world of their own.  Further, I have never heard any individual attempt to clarify or state unequivocally what we each will be doing fully and completely.  

We will become one with God.  In being one with God we will assist in all that he does.  If you can limit God then attempt to describe what God does.  

Lastly, only a very narrow, as in narrow to the point of silliness, could attempt to paint the Church as speaking out of both sides of its mouth.  I appreciate good critical reviews, but I really tire of utter claptrap stupidity.  Do better, consiq because you are better than this type of gibberish hoping that the mindless might actually fall for your constant repetition of vacuous commentary. 

[VideoGameJunkie]

2 hours ago, Sanpitch said:

I wish someone would make up their mind.  Mormonism 101 says: 

Do Latter-day Saints believe that they will “get their own planet”?

No. This idea is not taught in Latter-day Saint scripture, nor is it a doctrine of the Church. This misunderstanding stems from speculative comments unreflective of scriptural doctrine. Mormons believe that we are all sons and daughters of God and that all of us have the potential to grow during and after this life to become like our Heavenly Father (see Romans 8:16-17). The Church does not and has never purported to fully understand the specifics of Christ’s statement that “in my Father’s house are many mansions” (John 14:2).

I find it odd and confusing that the church states this, while prophets have taught otherwise. Someone's lying.

[Zakuska]

So easy a child could understand...

On page 90 (chapter five) of the correlated manual titled Presidents of the Church Student Manual: Religion 345 (2004), under the subheading, “They Shall Organize Worlds and Rule Over Them,” it states:

“Only a short time before his death, President Snow visited the Brigham Young University [then Brigham Young Academy], at Provo. President Brimhall escorted the party through one of the buildings; he wanted to reach the assembly room as soon as possible, as the students had already gathered. They were going through one of the kindergarten rooms; President Brimhall had reached the door and was about to open it and go on when President Snow said: ‘Wait a moment, President Brimhall, I want to see these children at work; what are they doing?’ Brother Brimhall replied that they were making clay spheres. ‘That is very interesting,’ the President said. ‘I want to watch them.’ He quietly watched the children for several minutes and then lifted a little girl, perhaps six years of age, and stood her on a table. He then took the clay sphere from her hand, and, turning to Brother Brimhall, said: ‘President Brimhall, these children are now at play, making mud worlds, the time will come when some of these boys, through their faithfulness to the gospel, will progress and develop in knowledge, intelligence and power, in future eternities, until they shall be able to go out into space where there is unorganized matter and call together the necessary elements, and through their knowledge of and control over the laws and powers of nature, to organize matter into worlds on which their posterity may dwell, and over which they shall rule as gods.’ (Snow, Improvement Era, June 1919, 658–59).”

“We are the offspring of God, born with the same faculties and powers as He possesses, capable of enlargement through the experience that we are now passing through in our second estate… He has begotten us in His own image. He has given us faculties and powers that are capable of enlargement until His fullness is reached which He has promised — until we shall sit upon thrones, governing and controlling our posterity from eternity to eternity, and increasing eternally.” (Millennial Star 56:772, October 5, 1894)

“When two Latter-day Saints are united together in marriage, promises are made to them concerning their offspring that reach from eternity to eternity. They are promised that they shall have the power and the right to govern and control and administer salvation and exaltation and glory to their offspring, worlds without end. And what offspring they do not have here, undoubtedly there will be opportunities to have them hereafter. What else could man wish? A man and a woman, in the other life, having celestial bodies, free from sickness and disease, glorified and beautified beyond description, standing in the midst of their posterity, governing and controlling them, administering life, exaltation and glory worlds without end” (Deseret News, 13 Mar. 1897; quoted by Spencer W. Kimball in The Miracle of Forgiveness[1969], 246;  See also Lesson 10 of The Latter-day Saint Woman: Basic Manual for Women, Part A).