VideoGameJunkie Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 Instead of Thomas Monson, we refer to him as Thomas S. Monson and Russell M. Nelson, etc. When did that practice start and why do we use the middle initial today? Brigham Young is just called Brigham Young.
Zakuska Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) Because in the early church there where lots of fathers and sons with the same 1st and last name who were both in the Apostleship and they needed to diferentiate which one was speaking when conference talks were orinted and the practice stuck. Eg. Joseph Smith Jr., Joseph Smith Sr., Joseph Fielding Smith Edited January 10, 2016 by Zakuska 1
Bob Crockett Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) It is a throwback to the 19th century when ministers, especially Anglicans and Congregationalists, always went by one name and one initial, or sometimes two initials plus last name. That tradition still continues amongst professionals today -- lawyers and and some doctors. There was a time when the only true professionals were clerics (Protestants, basically), lawyers and medical doctors; a fourth often included university professors. They all used the same affectation. Brigham Young didn't have a middle name, nor did Joseph Smith, nor John Taylor. They were born to poor, uneducated families. A lot of what we have in the Church today looks like what an Anglican or Congregational church would have looked like in the middle 19th century, as that is what most of the Saints came from. Edited January 10, 2016 by Bob Crockett 3
omni Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 11 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said: It is a throwback to the 19th century when ministers, especially Anglicans and Congregationalists, always went by one name and one initial, or sometimes two initials plus last name. That tradition still continues amongst professionals today -- lawyers and and some doctors. There was a time when the only true professionals were clerics (Protestants, basically), lawyers and medical doctors; a fourth often included university professors. They all used the same affectation. Brigham Young didn't have a middle name, nor did Joseph Smith, nor John Taylor. They were born to poor, uneducated families. A lot of what we have in the Church today looks like what an Anglican or Congregational church would have looked like in the middle 19th century, as that is what most of the Saints came from. So why do you believe it's completely appropriate within Mormon culture to refer to Joseph Smith by first name, but not President Monson?
The Nehor Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 2 hours ago, omni said: So why do you believe it's completely appropriate within Mormon culture to refer to Joseph Smith by first name, but not President Monson? Tradition! 1
strappinglad Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 58 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Tradition! Tradition. Cue the Fiddler on the Roof score.
JAHS Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 5 hours ago, omni said: So why do you believe it's completely appropriate within Mormon culture to refer to Joseph Smith by first name, but not President Monson? I remember odd it sounded when Larry King was interviewing President Hinckley and kept calling him Gordon.
Robert F. Smith Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 11 hours ago, Zakuska said: Because in the early church there where lots of fathers and sons with the same 1st and last name who were both in the Apostleship and they needed to diferentiate which one was speaking when conference talks were orinted and the practice stuck. Eg. Joseph Smith Jr., Joseph Smith Sr., Joseph Fielding Smith Actually, there were several GAs named Joseph Fielding Smith, two of them presidents of Church -- the first being called Joseph F. Smith, and the other Joseph Fielding Smith.
Tacenda Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 I think it elevates them. You don't hear your ward leaders represented in the same way do you VGJ. I know I haven't.
Stargazer Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 I thought it was interesting, too, that before he was elevated to Speaker of the House, Congressman Ryan was known as Paul Ryan, but after he was made Speaker, he let it be know that he was to be referred to as Paul D. Ryan. I don't know if he thinks that is more "elevated" or "distinguished", but probably it is. I normally go by Mike Clark, but if my full first name is used with my last name, other than when one addresses me in speech or writing, then I prefer my middle initial be used as well: Michael L. Clark. It sounds better in my opinion. That's all. If you think I've just now sabotaged my anonymity, I have news for you: there are tens of thousands of Michael L. Clark throughout the world. Which one is me?
Bernard Gui Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) I kinda long for the "Brother Joseph" "Brother Brigham" "Brother Heber" "Brother Parley" days. Seems more brotherly. I've also noted the LDS practice of using two surnames for married women....like the Latino cultures....Ashley Pratt Smith or Jessica Young Packer. Edited January 11, 2016 by Bernard Gui
Ahab Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 6 hours ago, Stargazer said: I thought it was interesting, too, that before he was elevated to Speaker of the House, Congressman Ryan was known as Paul Ryan, but after he was made Speaker, he let it be know that he was to be referred to as Paul D. Ryan. I don't know if he thinks that is more "elevated" or "distinguished", but probably it is. I normally go by Mike Clark, but if my full first name is used with my last name, other than when one addresses me in speech or writing, then I prefer my middle initial be used as well: Michael L. Clark. It sounds better in my opinion. That's all. If you think I've just now sabotaged my anonymity, I have news for you: there are tens of thousands of Michael L. Clark throughout the world. Which one is me? Come on! What does the L stand for? Us spies around here want to know! My "real" name is Paul Ray Hill and without me saying so somebody put Paul R. Hill on the name plate of my office. I think probably because there is another person named Paul Hill who works for the City I work for. But who knows, maybe it was just because someone else thought it sounds a little more fancy. The practice seems to be fairly common in professional business settings.
Ahab Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 On 1/10/2016 at 10:28 AM, omni said: So why do you believe it's completely appropriate within Mormon culture to refer to Joseph Smith by first name, but not President Monson? I'll probably start calling President Monson "Thomas" as soon as he's dead, just as I do for other dead prophets, usually after using their full name (if I know it) to make it clear who I am talking about if I think it would help to say so. Not only do most people refer to Joseph Smith by his first name but we also usually refer to Brigham, Peter, James, John, Paul, Jesus, Isaiah, Moses, Abraham, Noah, Adam, and many other people by their first name with most people knowing who we are talking about.
Tacenda Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 4 minutes ago, Ahab said: I'll probably start calling President Monson "Thomas" as soon as he's dead, just as I do for other dead prophets, usually after using their full name (if I know it) to make it clear who I am talking about if I think it would help to say so. Not only do most people refer to Joseph Smith by his first name but we also usually refer to Brigham, Peter, James, John, Paul, Jesus, Isaiah, Moses, Abraham, Noah, Adam, and many other people by their first name with most people knowing who we are talking about. That would be Tommy.
Ahab Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 8 minutes ago, Tacenda said: That would be Tommy. Nah, not for me. That would be like calling Joseph (Smith) Joe. It doesn't seem fitting But yes I do know he was called Tommy by his elders when he was but a wee lad.
The Nehor Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 3 hours ago, Tacenda said: That would be Tommy. His friends informally call him Tom.
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