How do I recognize the Spirit?

[TheSkepticChristian]

 It is true that at least some religious experiences are created by the brain  

Dr. V. S. Ramachandran wrote in his book, 

Quote

When you hear the word “epilepsy,” you usually think of someone having fits or a seizure – the powerful involuntary contraction of all muscles of the body – and falling to the ground. Indeed these symptoms characterize the most well known form of epilepsy, called a grand mal seizure. Such seizures usually arise because a tiny cluster of neurons somewhere in the brain is misbehaving, firing chaotically until activity spreads like wildfire to engulf the entire brain. But seizures can also be “focal”; that is, they can remain confined largely to a single small part of the brain. If such focal seizures are mainly in the motor cortex, the result is a sequential march of muscle twitching – or the so-called jacksonian seizures. But if they happen to be in the limbic system, then the most striking symptoms are emotional. Patients say that their “feelings are on fire,” ranging from intense ecstasy to profound despair, a sense of impending doom or even fits of extreme rage and terror … But most remarkable of all are those patients who have deeply moving spiritual experiences, including a feeling of divine presence and the sense that they are in direct communication with God

 Dr. Scott Atran wrote in his book 

Quote

Using routine EEG measures, Persinger (1984) tracked a Transcendental Meditation teacher for 10 seconds during a peak experience and a member of a Pentecostal sect who experienced protracted intermittent episodes of glossolalia (speaking in tongues). Neither subject had any psychiatric history. EEG patterns exhibited transient, focal, epileptic-like charges in the temporal lobe

and Dr. Wendy Ulrich said, 

Quote

Critics may conclude that there is no real difference, that feelings are not trustworthy or related to the spirit, and that Church members are being misled by missionaries who teach them that such experiences are the Holy Ghost testifying to them of truth. I have seen this argument used to discredit “spiritual” experiences as nothing more than subjectively produced emotions with no supernatural significance. In many cases I might agree

It doesn't mean that all religious experiences are created by the brain, perhaps there is a God that truly communicates with humans. However, I don't know how to tell the difference. Is there any way to tell the difference without circular reasoning?  

[TheSkepticChristian]

So Elder Ballard's advice does not apply to neuroscience and psychology? 

[deli_llama]

I have seizures; 20 years now. It is subjective, but if you have experienced both seizures and spiritual experiences you can and do recognize the difference.  Of course, the doctors couldn't see that when I was trying to explain what was happening to me.

I know that doesn't answer your questio.

In reading some of your quotes, I see materialism as a basis for their conclusions. I am curious, have you read any research from any other perspectives? Mario Beauregard or Rupert Sheldrake to name a couple of examples?

[Avatar4321]

Wait on the Lord. He will make it clear.

[Duncan]

if you see this man coming then you can recognize him 

[Hamba Tuhan]

God doesn't talk to people for no reason; His communications carry substance, designed to help us act in ways that will bless ourselves and/or others. If you get a spiritual impression telling you, for example, that there's an ancient record buried in a hill near your home, you should go try to unearth it. If the record exists, the communication was correct. If it doesn't, the communication wasn't. As we practise this process over and over again, we learn to discern the voice of God's Spirit from the other 'voices' in our own heads. I'm not sure there's any other way.

[TheSkepticChristian]

3 hours ago, deli_llama said:

I am curious, have you read any research from any other perspectives? Mario Beauregard or Rupert Sheldrake to name a couple of examples?

No, but I did listen to a debate between  Eben Alexander and Jane Aspell. Dr. Alexander disappointed me.  Dr. Jane Aspel had an out of the body experience, but no longer believes that. 

https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable/Episodes/Unbelievable-The-curious-case-of-Eben-Alexander-near-death-and-out-of-body-experiences

Thanks for the advice, I will read what Beauregard has to say.

Edited January 8, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian

[TheSkepticChristian]

2 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

God doesn't talk to people for no reason; His communications carry substance, designed to help us act in ways that will bless ourselves and/or others. If you get a spiritual impression telling you, for example, that there's an ancient record buried in a hill near your home, you should go try to unearth it. If the record exists, the communication was correct. 

but God doesn't work that way, if he did there wouldn't be a National Center for Missing Children. 

If you can think of another method please let me know. 

 

[deli_llama]

28 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

Thanks for the advice, I will read what Beauregard has to say, but I mostly feel like this. 

Warning: It has offensive and strong language. However, many people that are suffering feel like this 

The Spiritual Brain is a pretty good place to start. 

I have been there. In fact, pretty much the same thing played out many times; offensive, strong language and all. On rooftops, on cliff sides, in the mountains.  Shouted myself dry and there was silence in reply. I have since learned was shouting in the wrong direction. 

As for telling the difference between what's going on in your head and what is communication from the divine—you could wait around for the idea there is something buried in the ground to pop into your head and then test it against reality.  It's sound advice in a way. I often recommend learning to hunt for a stone a day, in a game kinda way, with the direction of the Spirit. 

Or, you could cultivate being, presence, and awareness.  Observe carefully yourself and your inner workings.  Then, when there is spiritual communication, you will know yourself well enough to know it   (the communication) is not of you, and therefore possibly divine.

 

[Hamba Tuhan]

45 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

but God doesn't work that way, if he did there wouldn't be a National Center for Missing Children. 

In case it helps, I have no clue what you meant when you wrote this.

[mfbukowski]

19 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

 It is true that at least some religious experiences are created by the brain  

Dr. V. S. Ramachandran wrote in his book, 

 Dr. Scott Atran wrote in his book 

and Dr. Wendy Ulrich said, 

It doesn't mean that all religious experiences are created by the brain, perhaps there is a God that truly communicates with humans. However, I don't know how to tell the difference. Is there any way to tell the difference without circular reasoning?  

Everything you know is a chemical reaction in your brain from science to religious experience

Every feeling every attitude is "created by the brain".  Your desires and every thought is created by the brain.

So what is the point?  Your brain is a chemical factory.

If what you know is not in your brain, where is it?  Are "facts" NOT in your brain?  How did they get in there?

 

Edited January 8, 2016 by mfbukowski

[Rain]

I too have had seizures because of low blood sugar and I have felt the increased emotion with lesser low blood sugar reactions as well. In my youth often the emotion was great elation. In my adult life most often it is humiliation or "guilt" (not true guilt as you have for sins). 

There is no confusion on my part as to when I am feeling the Spirit. I can be excited about something when feeling the Spirit, but it is not over the top like when my blood sugar is low and is always accompanied with peace and/or light. 

I have never felt that peace while in a seisure. I remember fear while going through it if I can remember anything at all. When in lesser reaction I can only describe the peace, on the rare occasion I have felt it, coming from another direction than the intense emotions. 

I never feel light durine a reaction. I have had some off the wall thoughts that I have poorly tried to communicate and realized how wrong in the head I was when I was back to normal. If I should ever feel there was light after the fact (doubtful) then I would take it specifically to the Lord to see if it was really light. 

Edited January 9, 2016 by Rain

[Calm]

Euphoria, peace and hallucinations from drugs and sleep deprivation, count me in on experiencing these...

I will never confuse those with the experience of the Spirit.  While the physical reactions and even emotions may at times be the same, there is just a certain quality of mental clarity that lacks in the others.