VideoGameJunkie Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) I know he and Hyrum Smith, John Taylor, and the other guy were jailed in Carthage and then a mob stormed them and killed Joseph and Hyrum, and wounded John Taylor, but what were the causes that led up to this incident? Why were they jailed and for what reason did the mob kill them? I mean they had survived mobs before and jail before, what made this June 1844 incident different? I've heard many different reasons, but I won't say them because they're all so different and I wanted the official reason with what happened and why and how it came about. And did it have anything to do with the burning of the printing press? Edited December 31, 2015 by VideoGameJunkie
JLHPROF Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 2 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said: I know he and Hyrum Smith, John Taylor, and the other guy were jailed in Carthage and then a mob stormed them and killed Joseph and Hyrum, and wounded John Taylor, but what were the causes that led up to this incident? Why were they jailed and for what reason did the mob kill them? I mean they had survived mobs before and jail before, what made this June 1844 incident different? I've heard many different reasons, but I won't say them because they're all so different and I wanted the official reason with what happened and why and how it came about. And did it have anything to do with the burning of the printing press? The printing press destruction was the main excuse used. The reasons behind that are many - everything from political power struggles, voting issues, money, polygamy, population distribution. There was no ONE cause in the end. Just one excuse that led to his arrest. 2
VideoGameJunkie Posted December 31, 2015 Author Posted December 31, 2015 Thanks for the info and that's why I was confused. There seemed to be so many reasons.
VideoGameJunkie Posted December 31, 2015 Author Posted December 31, 2015 What would have happened to the church if Joseph Smith lived to an old age. Would the members have still gone west?
strappinglad Posted January 1, 2016 Posted January 1, 2016 I believe so. The general plans were already made. 1
strappinglad Posted January 1, 2016 Posted January 1, 2016 1 hour ago, Avatar4321 said: He was in jail for treason When you need an excuse, any excuse will do. 2
Kenngo1969 Posted January 1, 2016 Posted January 1, 2016 4 hours ago, Avatar4321 said: He was in jail for treason Alleged.
omni Posted January 1, 2016 Posted January 1, 2016 9 hours ago, JLHPROF said: The printing press destruction was the main excuse used. The reasons behind that are many - everything from political power struggles, voting issues, money, polygamy, population distribution. There was no ONE cause in the end. Just one excuse that led to his arrest. Wait a second, I was always taught it was because he wouldn't deny his testimony...
VideoGameJunkie Posted January 1, 2016 Author Posted January 1, 2016 8 minutes ago, omni said: Wait a second, I was always taught it was because he wouldn't deny his testimony... If that were the case then why were 3 other men jailed along with Joseph and 2 others shot.
Calm Posted January 1, 2016 Posted January 1, 2016 (edited) 10 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Thanks for the info and that's why I was confused. There seemed to be so many reasons. Very few things in like that last longer than a few minutes are only occurring for one reason. The more people involved, the longer the time, the more serious the action, the more complicated and thus the list keeps going and likely varies from person to person. This may help with the story, perhaps even the background you are looking for: https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/joseph-smith-prophet-man/21-remembering-deaths-joseph-and-hyrum-smith https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/joseph-smith-prophet-man/22-joseph-smith-true-martyr Edited January 1, 2016 by Calm
The Nehor Posted January 1, 2016 Posted January 1, 2016 2 hours ago, omni said: Wait a second, I was always taught it was because he wouldn't deny his testimony... True, as if he had he would not have been there. 1
JLHPROF Posted January 1, 2016 Posted January 1, 2016 6 hours ago, The Nehor said: True, as if he had he would not have been there. In 1844 with 12000 saints in Nauvoo, polygamy rumors being bandied about, a presidential nomination, and so much more I doubt even denying his testimony would have saved him. However his coming out and claiming he made everything up could have cause the Church to collapse. But even then there were so many other members who had witnessed visions, angels and miracles, if Joseph had claimed he made everything up I'm not even sure that would have ended Mormonism. Too many others had experienced too much evidence of its truthfulness.
theplains Posted January 1, 2016 Posted January 1, 2016 7 hours ago, Calm said: Very few things in like that last longer than a few minutes are only occurring for one reason. The more people involved, the longer the time, the more serious the action, the more complicated and thus the list keeps going and likely varies from person to person. This may help with the story, perhaps even the background you are looking for: https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/joseph-smith-prophet-man/21-remembering-deaths-joseph-and-hyrum-smith https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/joseph-smith-prophet-man/22-joseph-smith-true-martyr The article stated, "At the home of William Jordan, on the Iowa side of the Mississippi River, Joseph learned that some of his followers were accusing him “of cowardice for leaving his people, concluding it was like the fable, when the wolves came the shepherd ran, leaving the sheep to be devoured.” Even though God had clearly shown him not only the way to save his own life, but the lives of his people as well, the Prophet, deeply hurt by the cowardice accusations, remarked, “If my life is of no value to my friends, it is of none to myself.” Convinced that a return to Illinois soil meant that he would be butchered, Joseph, perhaps like his brother Hyrum, became reconciled to his fate (Blake 69). Slowly making his way to the river and the boat, he told Porter Rockwell that he would like to talk to the people once more. Rockwell said that it might be done by starlight (Ibid 70-71). However, this was not to be." I saw another tidbit added on MRM's site. "Joseph Smith sought the help of Illinois Governor Thomas Ford. In order to have this matter settled, Ford believed that Smith and the others who were originally charged should submit themselves to the constable at Carthage (David Bettisworth) and there await trial. In his letter Governor Ford also promised Smith and the others that they would “be protected from violence.” Refusing to believe the governor’s promises, Smith made plans to escape capture and flee to the Rocky Mountains. Orrin Porter Rockwell arrived with a message from his wife who urged her husband to return and give himself up because several of his followers were accusing him of cowardice. Smith returned to Nauvoo, spent the night, and in the morning was told that he had to report to Carthage by 10 a.m. However, no escorts were provided." What evidence do we have to prove that statement, "God had clearly shown him not only the way to save his own life, but the lives of his people as well"? Thanks, Jim
JLHPROF Posted January 1, 2016 Posted January 1, 2016 3 minutes ago, theplains said: What evidence do we have to prove that statement, "God had clearly shown him not only the way to save his own life, but the lives of his people as well"? The same evidence we have of ANY revelation to anyone. Faith. Joseph was always going to be martyred, but it may have happened at a different time or place if his "friends" hadn't pushed him to surrender and go to Carthage. In much the same way Christ was always to die for our sins, but Judas had his agency and it could have been brought about differently. 1
theplains Posted January 1, 2016 Posted January 1, 2016 2 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: The same evidence we have of ANY revelation to anyone. Faith. Joseph was always going to be martyred, but it may have happened at a different time or place if his "friends" hadn't pushed him to surrender and go to Carthage. In much the same way Christ was always to die for our sins, but Judas had his agency and it could have been brought about differently. Why did he need a push to surrender? Thanks, Jim
Jeanne Posted January 1, 2016 Posted January 1, 2016 It is unfortunate that Joseph Smith broke the law This is where any excuse would do..
Avatar4321 Posted January 1, 2016 Posted January 1, 2016 1 hour ago, Jeanne said: It is unfortunate that Joseph Smith broke the law This is where any excuse would do.. No its not because he didnt
Sleeper Cell Posted January 1, 2016 Posted January 1, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, theplains said: Why did he need a push to surrender? Thanks, Jim Why did Jesus try to avoid being crucified? Quote O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me … Edited January 1, 2016 by Sleeper Cell
telnetd Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 20 hours ago, Sleeper Cell said: Why did Jesus try to avoid being crucified? See Did Jesus change his mind? Gail
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